The future

[SnugglyBedSocks]

Hi. My DH told me last week that he wants to seperate. He has drawn up a separation agreement and wants me to sign it asap.

Those of you who have been through a divorce, what was the outcome in terms of house, maintenance etc?

We have a mortgage but he wants the house on the market next week and split 50/50. We also have two children age 10 and 13yrs.

Many thanks

Hi Snuggly, it is possible for you to take over the mortgage as long as your income covers the repayments and, by income, I mean salary, tax credits and maintenance, although not all providers take these into account. You may need to remortgage with another provider to achieve this. However, nome of this will be possible without a divorce and consent order.

Also it sounds as if the value of your stbxh's pension is crucial here. It may be worth more than the value of your house. You may be able to offset the value of the house against it ie you keep the house, he keeps the pension. If he is nearing 55 he can release 25% tax free, very handy for paying off mortgages, down payment for another property. Also the £30k redundancy would substantially reduce your current mortgage and your ability to repay it yourself. Hence my concern about his spending assets.

There is more than one way to divide up a pie, just got to figure out what you need and what's important to you.

A stable home for my boys and myself is priority preferably this one as Ds1 is settled here.

My stbxh is trying to shaft me too, eighteen months on and we still haven't agreed finances, because according to him I'm being difficult and ripping him off, I'm not I want what's fair and right after 20 years of marriage. I gave up my career to look after children and due to our youngest's illness am still unable to work full time.

My advice is to get financial negotiations under way now, either through a solicitor or by downloading a Form E and filling it in. You need 12 months of bank statements etc., my ex delayed and delayed filling his in so that the twelve months he provided didn't include his bonus from work or show the fact that he had increased his pension payments to reduce his net income, however his credit card statement had all the stuff he'd bought to furnish his rented flat.

Right then, best foot forward!

Work out how much you need for that to happen ie cover the mortgage, cover your expenses including supporting your son ongoing and that is what you aim for. It's not about taking him to the cleaners, which is how he will probably see it. Ignore that. You are negotiating a reasonable deal to facilitate the future you are left with.

As other pp have said it needs to be done legally. However, you sound more than capable of putting these figures together without the expense of using a solicitor to investigate these things which will eat into valuable assets. Talking to stbxh is not necessarily agreeing to anything, you are getting valuable information about his point of view, also potentially info about assets. I would be throwing in the value of his pension in the conversation. He may reveal.

When you are ready you can get solicitors to draw up a deal and to check that it's not very unfair to you.

Unfortunately solicitors can only give you an idea based on your circumstances , if it's goes to court, it could be anything, it really is a lottery and I am sure your ex is afraid of that as you.

Keep heart. You have already down graded from being kicked out of your house, to staying there and taking over the mortgage. It's not over yet.

In regards to the house and mortgage, what are my options?

Snuggly you do need to take advice from a local solicitor as things/decisions do vary from location to location due to variations in housing markets etc. However, I can tell you what happened in my case and I hope it is useful. We split after he knocked the living shit out of me.

My DC were the same age as yours. I worked PT 20 hours a week so when we split my tax credits went up to about £560 a month.

I got £600 per month maintenance (20% of XH net pay inc overtime)

I got a mesher order which meant that XH name had to stay on the mortgage (I didn't earn enough to warrant mortgage on my salary alone) but house was for my exclusive use. XH had DC one night in the week and EOW. He moved out to a rented flat. I have kept the house and paid the mortgage and all the bills on my own. I went to uni and retrained as a teacher so I now earn a LOT more than I did back then.

When youngest DC is 18 I will sell the house and he gets 25% of the equity and I get 75%. In return for a higher percentage of the equity I relinquished all rights to XH pension pot. Some family courts will insist on pension sharing orders though and won't allow you to offset in this way.

Mesher Orders are not the best option for everyone, but in my situation (Exceptionally expensive area in south east) it was the best option possible.

I am now looking to sell next year and will be able to buy a nice small property for myself. Both DC will be living away and will be coming home maybe 4/5 times a year. They can stay with XH, with friends, or with me.

I would advise you to get local legal advice about your particular situation, but don't be cornered into agreeing anything at this stage.

Don't worry I won't be

I won't be doing anything without legal advice. I just want to see what options there are so I can look into how realistic they are for me.

He really doesn't want to declare finances but if I have worked it out correctly I might need to give him a pay out because of the share I have in my mums house

There are two strands to the house and mortgage. What you can achieve legally, and what you can afford financially. There's nothing to stop you running some numbers with a mortgage broker to check your options, financially.

Is this correct?
£330K value, £85K left to pay, over approx 12 years, £715 a month?
(Btw that's 3.1% interest which isn't way over the odds, but I think is higher than it could be - there are 10 year fixes at your LTV of 2.49% which is £690)

I think financially you would struggle to get an £85K mortgage - if you received 100% of the house in the settlement. It sounds like because of your SN son, increasing your work hours would be unlikely. So you need a lender that includes tax credits and maintenance. They exist but are limited. And I think with maintenance, they want to see 12 months history of payments - you really need a specialist broker for that though!

Option 1: you get the house entirely - and take on the mortgage. You need a broker to work out if you can get an £85K mortgage. (option 1b can you reduce that £85K with savings, other assets...)

Option 2: agree as high a % of the equity as you can, sell up and buy mortgage free with your amount (cheaper area, downsize...) Maybe suppliment with mortgage - but see above on affordability!

Option 3: (especially if you don't get expect the lion's share of the equity)
look into a Mesher Order, where you stay in the house and he pays the mortgage til a specified date, usually youngest turning 18. Be careful though - if you can't afford to buy him out it's postponing the issue. I think it works well for women who expect a change in circumstances in the intervening years - e.g. Children moving out so costs down and practical to downsize.

The thing is, you can't really know your options yet. You need to start financial disclosure. That pension is critical! The higher the pension, the higher your chance of more house equity even in an overall 50/50 split (and I think you have a good chance of more because of the dependent children)

In the meantime, DO NOT PANIC.
The thing is, it's not in his interests to default on the mortgage - it'll screw him up for credit worthiness. So don't allow yourself to be rushed. Get all the info, and legal advice.

In his position I would give up more equity over being stuck with a Mesher Order. He's not a high earner so he won't get another mortgage whilst he's on the Mesher (and would get hit for more SDLT I think!).

As well as wishing you luck, can I just add that although I am opinionated I am not a lawyer - so please please don't take anything I say as fact, or correct for your situation. You could post in Legal - there are some family lawyers there!

Without an accurate figure of your combined total assets, Snuggly, it is difficult to advise. I would not get too hung up about who owned what, pre marriage. It's not relevant unless you intend to spend thousands arguing about it in court. It's a long marriage, all goes into the pot.

There are two aspects here, tangible assets - equity in the house, value of pensions, savings, redundancy money, value of cars and other items that have a resale value, also your interest in other property. Are you able to realise a value in that? Minus any marital debts.

The other asset is your individual earning potentials, yours and your stbxhb. This is the money that pays your bills and funds your lifestyle. Your ex is obviously the higher earner but from what you've already said, he is closer to retirement than you. You earn less now but could earn more by increasing your hours, retraining and are further away from retirement, so have more years ahead. Also more potential to build up your own pension.

With this in mind, there are a number of options :

In an ideal scenario, you u could pay off the mortgage using any available tangible assets. He takes the rest of the assets, including any savings, your pension, anything that has a value to rehouse himself. You transfer the house into your name. No maintenance required for mortgage repayments but still maintenance for your living expenses for a time. Job done but may not be very palatable to the 'assets all belong to me man'.

You get a Mescher order which is he retains a percentage of the house, stays on the deeds, you continue to live there until an agreed trigger ie children leaving home, you then sell up and he gets his share. You may need ongoing maintenance to achieve this and two houses being funded on your incomes. Not ideal in your situation. Unlikely to be agreeable to him if he wants to move on or set up home with a new party asap.

You sell up, split the equity, buy new homes and agree maintenance to allow this to happen.

Hope that helps Snuggly. Perhaps some other pps can offer suggestions.

He doesn't want to declare finances?
Tough fucking luck.
He has no choice, legally.
Certainly he can hide things, lie about things...
But if he's just an average guy with a salary, pension, mortgage, redundancy payout, and maybe an ISA... there's not a lot he can do to hide! He can stall though
Eventually a court would get pissed off with that though!

Thankyou everyone.

It is all very helpful

For those in the know about mesher orders, can I just ask, presumably you agree the percentage split when the order is agreed? And is it worked out of the value of the house then, or in the future when it is sold?

Percentage of the house now, impossible to predict future value.