Need some help, or a crystal ball

[MagpieJay1980]

I can't share too much on here as wish to stay anonymous but I have a really tough decision to make by Tuesday and I just don't know what to do.
A brief outline. I am 37 and have 5 children of 18, 15, 11, 10 and 8. my husband and i are currently separating. The eldest two children are from my previous relationships. We haven't got on for a fairly long while but only properly decided to separate in April. He is probably best described as a functioning alcoholic that can be emotionally abusive/stonewalls but never physical and mostly it's because the children and I frustrate and infuriate him although he loves us?! He works full time and is leaving so he says at the end of the month. The children know and although upset are ok about it. I am a stay at home mum/carer/student (two of the children have autism that we cope well with and our youngest has a medical condition that results in hospital stays sometimes.) I am studying a degree from home.

Now the dilemma is I am 12 weeks + 5 days pregnant. It isn't my husbands although it is the same father as my second eldest. He (the father) is a good friend and would like to be together but I can't really deal with a relationship right now especially considering our past relationship and I just feel awful about everything. I don't know if I would want to be with him all the time as feel I just need to concentrate on my family at the moment and am mentally and physically exhausted most of the time. He is supportive whatever I decide as to keeping it or not but currently feels pushed out and hurt. I am so torn as to what to do. I have a surgical termination booked for Tuesday but I will be 13wks + 1 then. I had a scan this week and I know it looks like a baby. I had a termination many years ago (my husbands and at his request when we were first together) and I found it really hard after psychologically but then I don't know if it's just for the best as I can't see how any of this can end well for anybody if I keep the baby.

If it affected you like that last time...that is a big worry and I wouldn't do it,
what would advise a friend to do?

No-one can decide this for you.
Personally I would go ahead with the termination.

I wouldn't want a baby when I didn't want to be with the father, it wasn't planned, I was dealing with divorce, helping my children through divorce, already had 5 children, about to (presumably?) have a reduced financial situation, and was close to starting a new phase of my life with degree completion.

Load of people will post if you want the baby, you'll make it work - I don't doubt that.

But my view is even if I found it hard to terminate, I'd find it harder to continue.

I would personally terminate if I were in your position as it's a very messy situation that could end badly. But if you have been through the experience before and it caused you a lot of distress then maybe it's not good for you to go through it again. You need to work out what would be more stressful overall - the potential mental torment of an abortion, or the stress of having a 6th child with your ex. Which of those two scenarios has the most likelihood of causing you the most long term issues? Hope it goes ok whatever you decide to do x

Just re-read, and noted 3 of your children have additional needs.
Another reason I'd terminate - and not dilute my time further.

Also, as father to #2 and this pregnancy are the same - what's he like? Does he always pay maintenance, see his child - is he a good father? I would be even more likely to terminate if he'd already proved himself unreliable.

I'm not sure what I would advise if it was a friend. I'm not against abortion as such but I feel termination at 13weeks is different life versus cells to termination at 6 weeks. It doesn't sit easy with me that I'm so far along but then I am worried as to how this pregnancy will affect everyone else, especially my other children (and my parents/family would not be very happy. I see them a fair bit but live a hour away from them ) and I guess I know I'd be probably bringing a child into a dysfunctional/odd set up and husband finding out eventually would be awful

I'm another who would go ahead and terminate, I'm afraid. Everything's tough enough now without adding another baby and an ex partner into the mix.

Father #2 is a good dad in that he is currently there when our son needs him and has been for the last 5yrs (son is 15) but when I was with him previously 18yrs ago for 4.5 years he was still married and when I had our son he was given the choice of his other children or me. His mother was also dying of cancer at the time. He chose them and left when my son was 4 months old. They have since separated and he is now single and lives with his adult son. He doesn't pay maintenance as only works part time (he is a fair bit older) but buys things for our son, and often for the family when he can. He sees his son regularly and takes him out. He says he wants to be involved properly this time but I just don't know if it's what I want

Cross posting with some of you hence why replies might look a little odd.
I appreciate all your honest opinions

It sounds like a very complicated situation that could ultimately wear you down with stress. I wouldn't do it to yourself if I were you

I think you're too old to be basing this decision on your parents!

And yes, it's pretty bad having to manage the divorce alongside the evidence that you cheated on your STBXH. (I'm assuming separate lives doesn't mean agreed open marriage, apologies if you didn't cheat)

But at the end of the day, everyone would get over it, eventually.

Honestly, my two equal biggest reasons to terminate would be financial and impact on existing children. If you've got plenty of money forget the first - but I would have thought the divorce and you being a SAHM now means that money is tight. Your youngest is 8 and you've nearly finished your degree - so you're about to be able to get a job and a new baby might make that very difficult. This is not the time to be unable to work.

5 children / young adults without extra needs takes time. I think you have enough on your plate now.

You dont have to tell everybody.

Bloody hell.
I admire your honesty.
But look - you were Dad #2's affair for 4.5 years and then he ditched his child for years?
And now doesn't pay maintenance

You should never have had #2 because as you were having an affair, you should have used adequate contraception. (Best type: not sleeping with a married man in the first place!)
Now you could say it's worked out OK having #2 so why not #6? I'm sure #2 is lovely. But it wasn't ideal, was it? A child with a cheating arsehole who left you and his child high and dry.

You'll love #6 I'm sure if you go ahead. But...this pregnancy is another accident during an affair.

I'd terminate, get rid of the deadbeat man that you're sleeping with, and concentrate on your divorce and existing children, and maybe counselling because there are some bad decisions along the way.

Elisandra - yes you're right seperate lives didn't mean it was ok to sleep with anyone else although to add a bit of perspective although we share a bed my husband and I haven't been intimate for over a year (this includes kissing/holding hands etc) but yes he would take it badly especially as to who it is with.
Financially wise I will have about the same amount as now. My husband used to pay a set amount for the bills (less then half) and that was all. He has agreed to sign over his share of equity in our (mortgaged) house in exchange for not paying hardly any maintenance. I've got another 4 years of my degree as due to my youngest need for care when he is unwell I wouldn't be able to go to work until he is older and better able to manage his own condition (he doesn't have any learning problems and this baby wouldn't have his particular condition) the two with autism, one is fairly hard work and goes to a special school (high functioning) and the other copes extremely well now and is doing a level 2 course in mainstream college. Termination would be the easiest option I guess, although it would definitely spell the end of my relationship with its dad. I will find it difficult to come to terms with though (probably because I kept my first two children in pretty dire circumstances really. First child was from a violent relationship I left in pregnancy

And yes I am having counselling but it hasn't really helped me make a decision.

Keep going with the counselling as I really think you need to work on your self esteem (and I don't mean that in a bitchy patronising way). You have clearly been through a lot and I think you need to have a good hard look at why the pattern of you getting involved with very dysfunctional men and situations keeps repeating itself. Your first partner was abusive, the second was a cheat who might be a nice person now but he hasn't exactly stepped up to the mark when it comes to your son's needs, and the third has also been making you very unhappy and treating you badly.
Is it not better to just be completely single then going from one stressful situation to the next?

Yes I do agree with you, and something my counsellor has suggested which I struggle with is with this baby's dad he is now single, I will be soon too and he is offering all the things I would want, things in common, friend, treats me well now and likes all my kids, respectful, emotionally open. I agree he was pretty shitty before though and there are things I don't like, like the past and our age difference BUT it scares me, someone being that into me makes me anxious. My counsellor has suggested that I simply don't know how to respond to or feel worthy of all the things in a normal relationship.

I agree that you have no idea what a normal relationship is.

I really fucking hope that your counsellor isn't telling you that Dad #2 second time round is a normal relationship though!!!

For a start, your counsellor shouldn't tell you anything - they should help you be able to see clearly though, and value yourself enough, to make good decisions.

This man does not treat you well now. How do I know that? Because he sniffed you out and resumed an affair with you AGAIN (though it is you doing the cheating this time, not him).

If he loved and respected you he would have supported you in leaving your bad marriage without having sex with you!!!

He's still an arsehole, love. He fucked you and your son over before, and he'll do it again. He doesn't have a track record for respecting his or your relationships.

You think it can work with him?
I think you're deluded and running towards what you think is safe, simply because better the devil you know...

How did you get pregnant in the first place? That's twice now with this man when you were in an affair situation. Something is going on psychologically for that to has happened. Is he abusive and trying to trap you? Are you lax with contraception (twice) because you think a baby is going to make this work?

You made a fantastic decision to walk away from your first child's father - well done you.

And it's great to end your current abusive marriage, though it's worrying that you've done it via an affair.

• keeping #6: in my opinion s bad decision but only you can decide that

• keeping #6 and staying with this loser? BAD BAD BAD DECISION.

Bloody hell - just realised, you said this relationship would end if you terminate? That there is your proof that he is not a good man.

A good man - even if he wanted the pregnancy - would support YOUR decision. Especially when a bloody good reason to end th pregnancy was / is his behaviour!

He can't even be bothered to support his first child with you. This is not a man to have a relationship or a baby with.

YOU NEED TO BE SINGLE!
(and I bet you're a great mum, and will be a great single mum)

A lot of what you say is true but there are a couple of things I might have put across badly. Counsellor hasn't said anything is a good or bad decision but has highlighted that I do worry too much about being judged and other people's views generally (society, my parents, being a single mum.. etc) she has helped me decide that staying with my husband though is a bad decision although in the past I have modified myself and the children's behaviours at home to make us more acceptable. You are right in that I should have left before I started seeing someone else and it is something I regret but I honestly didn't want to disrupt the kids. I actually went and found ex and came to him not the other way round. My son had started asking about his dad and I didn't want him looking for him himself. I also wanted closure and thought If ex was happy as he was and didn't want anything to do without us then I could try harder at my marriage as I was told I was the problem in my marriage. Ex and I were just close friends (not physical) and he saw his son weekly for a few years and then it did evolve but I felt it was wrong and put a stop to it 10 months ago although he made it clear he would like to be together properly. It hurt him badly. April this year was a one off incident as I wanted to wait until after my separation for any relationship with anyone. Yes I should have been more careful with contraception but I was on the pill. Son #2 was result of me wanting another baby so that was my fault really and yes I know it wasn't a great idea at the time but I didn't want to meet anyone else at the time and I was completely heart broken when he left as although it was a affair he treated me well and we spent a lot of time together. He isn't abusive and he is supportive of whatever decision I make. He would want to have a relationship even if it meant waiting until after my divorce and if I terminated or not but it is me that wouldn't carry on the relationship if I terminated. It would make it harder for me to cope. If I carry on though, until my seperation is complete I would want to hold back and concentrate on my kids so you are right in that I should be single

And yes a big part of me just wants to concentrate on getting my degree and looking after my kids.

Sorry, my mistake I misinterpreted your comment about the relationship ending if you terminated.

Your life has been a total roller coaster, hasn't it?

I know this is based on scant information but I don't like the sound of this man at all.

The fact that all 3 men have been arseholes suggests to me that you're making bad choices re men - so the chances that #2 isn't still an arsehole is very very slim.

This man cheated on his wife for FOUR years. And not just sex - if you say he treated you so well, enjoyed time together, then he wasn't just shagging you for an hour a week before running back to his wife. How can you even look at a man who could do that? Then he left you high and dry with a tiny baby. Dumped his own child. Only came back to his life because YOU sought him out. Hasn't financially supported his child. This man is a total loser.

You know you said you get anxious at just how into you he is?
Well, one interpretation of that is that you've been treated badly in the past and aren't used to being treated well, yes.
Another interpretation is that he's a creepy abusive arsehole, and your anxiety is a very sensible inner self screaming at you "his neediness is a red flag!"

He doesn't love you - he wouldn't have treated you like shit before if he did. Therefore, if you feel anxious about how much he wants you, I think that's because it's driven by his neediness, his wants, not yours.

Keep the baby if you think that's a good decision.
But lose the deadweight.
Carry on your counselling.
And let this idiot prove he's changed by getting off his arse, upping his hours, and paying maintenance for BOTH his children.

Sorry to rant - I'm cross for you!

You speak a lot of truth! And they are the similar things that flag up for me as a issue. His past bothers me a lot. To put a little perspective on both his wife's (1st and 2nd) cheated on him. his ex wife doing so before I met him. I know that's no excuse. I will never excuse him leaving his son but I guess he had to choose to leave kids no matter what he did (he had had kids with his wife previously and she wasn't going to give him access). years ago when we were together I saw him everyday almost, he worked full time and provided for all his kids then but lost his f/t job due to injury at work. It wasn't just a come round for sex thing. In a way that made it all worse when he did leave.
We are not 'together' currently and he knows I have issues about him not being financially secure although it is hard getting that across without sounding like a gold digger! He is trying to improve his financial situation although I also know he'd give me £100 if I needed it, even if he only had £80. If it was up to him he'd move in by the time baby gets here but that is something I really don't want and is far too fast and he is ok with that. It does worry me that once I have done my degree (which he is supportive of) I will want to go to work and may end up in different social circles to what he is in. I also know I need time to be on my own a bit and to keep the kids stable and happy.
If baby was 6 weeks old I don't think I'd hestitate much to terminate and then be on my own but I didn't find out myself that long ago and I guess I feel a bit maternal towards it now. I have kept my appointment for Tuesday though as at the moment by head says terminate but my heart says don't.

You keep trying to justify his actions and protect him. Why?! Sounds like he's got you a bit brainwashed to his charms.
I don't think you're going to go ahead with the abortion as I think he's got you well and truly manipulated. Just please look after yourself as you seem blinded to the truth and are being naive. Your life is set to get a whole lot more bumpy and stressful so make sure you carry on with the counselling

Surprise surprise that he wants to move in with you

I did think when you said "living with his adult son" that this didn't mean was housing his adult son, but the other way round. But figured I'd been negative enough!

That his wives cheated on him doesn't wash. No excuse at all. My XH cheated on me - does that give me an excuse to cheat? No.

He's older than you, works part time, and now he's sniffing a nice easy life where you house him. He really is an arsehole.

And please - what's with this "he'd give you £100 if he only had £80" bullshit? Come on love. You're clearly not thick, don't act like you are. Where was that finajciak generosity when his son was 20 weeks old? You with 2 young kids, dumped, and no support. That should have been financial responsibility, not even generosity.

If you want 6 kids, have 6. Not 7.

And you don't sound like a gold digger at all.
Avoiding a waste of space cock lodger draining money that should go to your children isn't good digging.

I agree that when our first son was born he was completely irresponsible and no he didn't help financially then. In the last 4 yrs or so though he has bought our son things and paid towards things for him and been there when I've needed him to collect him from school and when he needed his appendix out and things like that.

However I guess sometimes I do just need to be told when I'm being delusional.

I can't say if I will go through with the termination or not, although I probably will tbh mostly because I don't want to have to explain things which would have to be explained if I keep it. But the decision I make on that will be mine, although he was supportive in taking me for the first consultation a week ago (1.5hr drive each way) and is willing to come with me for the second appointment/termination even though he knows this will be the end of our relationship if it's what I decide. Whether I can actually go through with it I guess will be another thing