I feel so mixed up. Is this controlling?

[Poppysquad]

I am sorry, a bit of a saga.

I have been with my partner for four and a half years and we bought a house together about eighteen months ago. I have a son of 19, who lives with me, he is re-sitting his a levels at the moment. My partner has never had children.
Over our initial twelve months together he broke off our relationship twice. The first time we tried again, the second time it happened I did not contact him and left him alone and after time he came back.
There have been moments - when we took my son and a friend on holiday he told me that he would come home if the kids misbehaved. I ended up telling him that I couldn't guarantee their behaviour and I would rather go on my own. He was fine in the end.Since we have moved in probably every three months, he gets cross and threatens that he will leave. A number of these times are as a result of something my son has done e.g. allowed someone to sleep in his bed, i.e.the bed he brought into the house when we moved in, or using his speaker and letting it overheat. Once we reach this trigger there is a series of things that he says to me, like 'what do I do for him' - and I never support him and I don't do anything, I just come home from work and put the telly on. Just after Christmas we narrowed down the trigger for the rage as being the fact that I did not wipe down the work surfaces sufficiently.
It has built and built and just over a week ago, following a return from a weekend away, when my son wiped the table with bacterial spray and removed the wax and, so my partner says, allowed someone to sleep in his bed again, he just walked out of the house. Taking nothing with him. He just left. He stayed in a number of hotels for three nights. He called each day. Sometimes he seemed cross that I was not falling apart without him.
Then he came home! And here he is in the house, sleeping in the spare room, and I really don't know where I stand.
In terms of the controlling, I am expected to cook tea every night even though I work full time in a demanding job and my partner is at home and retired.
He likes to eat early so I feel under pressure to make sure I am home in time if I've stopped on my way home.
He is with me all the time. If a girl friend calls in, he just stays and joins in the conversation. I don't get anytime on my own.
He tuts and roles his eyes if I make a stupid mistake like dropping something,
He is critical of my driving and I have lost confidence in my ability to reverse completely.On the night before I went into hospital for a cancer biopsy with general anesthetic I knocked over a sleeper in the garden with my car. A silly accident and something I've done probably four times before. He had fixed this and I had broken it again. He was so cross with me that he said that he would stay with my during the biopsy, but he would not be here the following day. So, if the specialist had said that there could be an issue, he was saying he wouldn't be there. All because of a piece of wood. I was shocked.
He says that my son is a lazy s**t, who is totally inconsiderate. He is, to be fair, a typical self centred 19 year old. But he really is not a bad kid.
If I moan about how my son is behaving he tells me that basically it's my own fault as I had bought him up.
I don't know. This just sounds like a rant. I do know that I don't feel that things are right. I am worried that the nastiness could escalate. He is now in the house again, and I don't know what I want I happen. Do I want him to stay or not? Do I want a relationship with him or not?
Help ! Does anyone have any views?

So, does my ExP not really love me, or did not necessarily plan on leaving? Did he threaten to go and I have called his bluff

I believe my stbxh loved me but his love had expectations for my behaviour.Never challenge him and always put his needs first as examples.

Like your ex partner he really believed he gave so much and treated me so well. I think he is sincere in this belief but he plays by a different set of rules and this is hard to relate to.

I find this reassuring however as I know his expectation will be the same for another woman so the pattern will be repeated.Its only time that illuminates his behaviour not the person he is with.

Please know you are not demanding, needy or unreasonable.Your expectations are fine and MN would be the first to tell you if you were needy!

For example your son would be leaving for Uni, why didn't he play the long game and just wait to see how he felt in Sept? It's because he wasn't looking to solve the issue as it wasn't the particular issue that worried him but his anger at you not prioritising him.

I used to feel that when my ex was upset it didn't matter if the issue was reasonable what mattered was how upset he was..I was supposed to respond to his level of upset not the issue.

I have had other relationships but this one is so different.None appeared so perfect at the outset or so destructive towards the end.The process is often idealise, devalue and discard.The discarding is so painful.

My recovery is slow as I constantly ruminate about incidents and what I said/ he said.

At best these men did not achieve full emotional development (think toddler response to not getting what they want) at worst they are nasty abusers.

Blue bell, thanks for sharing.This thread is supportive and I feel helping lots of women who are at various stages in the leaving process.

hermonie. Thanks once again. Your description of idealise, devalue and discard is spot on.

He's left this morning to go and pick up the van. His bed is all packed up. What I don't understand is why he is taking so long. If he has a van and it's so bloody awful here why hasn't he just put all his clothes and belongings into it and headed off? When he left today he hugged me and gave me a peck on the lips. He's talking about being to and from over the next few days.

And hermonie when I told my ExP that life will change again when my son leaves for uni, he just said 'he'll be back' implying that the same issues will arise at weekends and holidays. So he wouldn't wait around. I think that says that a lot of the issues stem from my relationship with my son. And my ExPs possible jealousy. But its not just that is it? He's been awful about my own behaviour too and as you say, my lack of ability to fulfil his needs.

To be fair to my ExP he has given a lot. He has been generous, thoughtful, supportive. And blooody nasty and manipulative. And it is him who has a string of broken relationships behind him. I am long term relationship number five.

brian thank you - actually writing that all out helped me to see how far I've come. Of course when you do the work of personal growth it happens in small chunks and you can't see how much you've changed!

I got the shivers when you said you were having counselling to open up the box (of your childhood) for the first time. I also have always seen it as a box - lurking in a dark attic I rarely visited. It wasn't pleasant to open but it helped me so much...you mentioned your mother's behaviour as a historical cause and alluded to her having been damaged herself. Although it's initially depressing, realising I am just the latest person in generations of dysfunction and abuse is so helpful. It lessened the burdens on my shoulders alone. It's not all my fault. And I'm learning to hold myself accountable for my own behaviour & choices, not blame myself - one is empowering you to change, the other causes helpless despair.

I'm cheering you on! You will go through so many ups and downs as you heal but I think you have a major tool in your armoury which will be your super power in all this - you have incredibly good self-awareness, astonishingly so. Yeay!! I was clueless, took me years to have the insight you already have. Go you!

I'll add this - I had several years on my own before I got into relationships again (I just knew I'd pick another man with damage and repeat the cycle) so whilst that was hard, the time alone was essential to work through things. Give yourself the gift of getting to know yourself.

poppy I send you and remember this will pass. There's no league table of horrible relationships and I for one am glad you've seen the storms ahead before they totally engulf you. One thing popped into my head that might be helpful - lots of your posts in these horrible in between days as he moves out are about what he's doing, saying, thinking, feeling...but what about you? What do you feel, think, want? He's moving out by inches and that sounds like it's distressing you. Is that ok? Could you set a deadline, i.e. please complete moving out by xx date and I will dispose of anything left to appropriate charities after that? He probably won't like it, he may not abide by it, but you will have asked for your needs to be met and wishes respected and that alone could be powerful for you. (I know I'll be cheering when that f bed goes!!). And what else? How do you feel about him kissing you? Do you want to change the locks? What would help right now?

On an utterly practical note, when my exH moved out I got a lodger - I'd stretched myself financially to by ex out and I needed the money. He turned out to be wonderful - just a nice normal fella around, someone in the house so I didn't feel so alone, someone to have a light chat with now and again. It really helped.

withouttea both the posters here and the counsellor have helped me come to terms with what my future could have been like if I had stayed in the relationship with my ExP. When he is being lovely to me - I can't quite believe that this would be the case. This morning, he made me a cup of tea and brought it upstairs to 'my' bedroom. He asked if I'd heard from my son and how was he doing on holiday - and if you looked at my posts here, that would seem so contradictory as he has lambasted him in the past calling him lazy, inconsiderate etc. he's taken the washing out of the drier and folded up my underwear ?!? Proving he's just a lovely, thoughtful guy? It's just that our relationship was not what he wanted, so he's quit now?

Regarding me and my thoughts and feelings - the truth is I really don't know. I am a bit at sea. It feels like I've tried for a long time to keep everyone else happy, keep things on an even keel. I don't know what I want for myself. I, pathetically, maybe hope that something can be salvaged from this. What I don't know. Because if he doesn't recognise his behaviour is damaging and can't or won't change, then there is a danger that our relationship just drifts back to where it was and, now that he;'s shown that he can leave, the threat of this happening again is now so real.

I know that my best option is to try and cut loose. I am not feeling very brave though. And like you withouttea and others who have posted, I think I need to be on my own for a while, learn to love myself a bit more and be a bit self indulgent.

I can and will bear him moving out bit by bit - I just don't understand it. But at some point, this has to stop - as the house will be my home and it its not acceptable that he keeps returning. A girl friend is coming around next week and taking a look at things around the home with me to help me make it more 'mine' rather than 'ours'.

Our house is fairly big - and when my son is away at uni I will be rattling around it. I am not sure about a lodger, I don't know if there's any demand, I live in a small rural village. However, I did think about maybe advertising on AirBnB and then maybe there will someone around some of the time. I've not looked into it. It's a couple of months off yet.

Poppy, reading your post made me think of something my best friend told me. Apparently people cope better with completely horrible situations (so for example, one's partner being mean all the time) than they do with intermittently horrible situations (partner doing horrid things from time to time, but lovely the rest of the time). You can sort of get used to horrible all the time. The latter situation gives you hope - you always hope, long for things to good all the time, and hope are shattered intermittently. Then they are lovely again, you start to hope it will all be ok, repeat, repeat, repeat. We wonder what we did to cause it and if it's our fault. Something about that really shreds us inside. And it keeps you stuck.

But the amount of times that it's ok for any person to put up with emotional abuse is ZERO. The good times don't make up for the bad, or cancel it out. And you know - loads of people have shared their experiences here - it's only going to get worse with time unless the perpetrator engages in some serious soul searching and makes huge emotional changes. That's not impossible - but - is he likely to do it? It's hard. You've got to really want to do it. Does he recognise the need?

I love the idea you are working on making the house more yours - that's a good project. And it's good to hear you have friends around to support you, too.

Gosh, you can tell I'm on holiday, can't you! I've never ever posted so much. This feels very personal. And I love how supportive this thread is - no-one is laying into one another. Thank you all.

I can and will bear him moving out bit by bit - I just don't understand it. But at some point, this has to stop - as the house will be my home and it its not acceptable that he keeps returning.

I agree, and I think that 'at some point' is right now. What he is doing is cruel and I still say he's getting some sort of thrill out of it. You should not have to 'bear it' and if he had one shred of human dignity he would realize it and go and leave you alone.

Have you considered taking legal advice? I know the house is jointly owned but perhaps now that he has his own place you may be able to justify changing the locks for 'your personal safety'?

Have you talked through with your therapist or a good friend exactly why you haven't said "No, this is not fair to me and you aren't going to 'to and fro' anymore and NO staying the night" or words to that effect? Is it that you are still 'hanging on hoping' or just that you aren't assertive in that way as your nature?

human decency, not 'dignity' although he has none of that either.

Across I think you're right, there's a pathetic part of me that thinks that this is not happening and maybe it will be all right. It's taking time to accept this. Rationally now I am becoming more accepting that this is it - it is over.

And, I do feel that I have had some of the assertiveness knocked out of me.

I have just had to pop into the house this afternoon to change. Salad dressing from lunch all down my top . He's taken the bed, but his bedding is still here. Loads of his clothes. A tooth brush. I think he must be setting himself up a comfortable home. It will be incredibly well planned. It always is. He will be pulling things together, buying new furniture etc. He said this morning that he won't be back tonight. But he's mot sure over the weekend but will let me know. He has got a sort of of 'residents do' that he says been invited to. Rub it in please. Let me know how well you're doing. How well you're settling into your new place while you leave me here to cope with the house, the bills and the garden. Am I bitter? You bet I am

Poppy
This business of taking his time to move his stuff out, is control. He still has you on tenterhooks wondering if and when he's coming back for more stuff, it makes it awkward for you if you have friends round and he turns up unexpectedly.
If he doesn't come over the weekend, I would suggest you point out that the house needs to be made "estate agent ready", and that his clutter is not helping. If necessary hire a man and van to deliver it to him.
He is a master manipulator, letting you know how well he's doing, telling you that the failure of your relationship is your fault. You're well rid.

Poppy, everything he is doing is to suit himself and this isn't what decent people do when they end a relationship, where there was love.
The intermittent rewards is liken to slot machines..if they were consistent in payputs they wouldn't be addictive.We keep going back to try to get consistency from our partners when in reality (like slot machines) the rewards are not consistent.

I really do understand your pain as my decree nisi will come through soon and I find it hard to accept it has to be over.On so many levels it should have been a great relationship (our children are thriving) but he can't accommodate another person in his life as he has to give up too much control.The need for control became stronger over time and when I reinforced boundaries he turned viciously.

I fear this happens when they are more in the driving seat..it definitely got worse when eldest (who I really close to) went to Uni.

Keep trying to move forwards and accept the tears and sadness are necessary steps in healing.

Poppy, as others have said, this business of XP taking his time to move stuff is controlling. It took me ages to get XH off the mortgage and therefore be able to change the locks, and in the meantime he would walk in without notice. My solicitor described it as being like a dog, pissing on his territory. I have a friend whose estranged husband takes this a step further by having a cr@p every time he visits the house.

My XH left lots of valuable possessions in the former marital home, and ignored my requests to move them in a timely fashion. I had to threaten to leave them on his mum's drive whilst she was on holiday before he took them. (Enjoyed that )

Hi Poppy

Hermonie Bluebell withouttea and Across are all right. He is still very much in control by taking some things, and not being clear about when he will be back for the rest. And telling you how he is getting on in his new home. Who cares???

I know this goes against all your instincts and hopes, but try to start setting your own boundaries. Explain politely but briefly that now he has moved out he cannot just drop in and out of your home on a whim any more. Putting it bluntly, he cannot have his cake and eat it.

And withouttea thank you so much for your kind words. I think I have realised for a very long time about the generational tsnuami of emotional abuse that has resulted in my situation - what I am less clear about is how to deal with it. And you are so right about not dating for a good while. I have absolutely no urge to rush out and find a new man, which is interesting in itself because for the first time in my adult life, I am content to be flying solo and don't see it as a form of my own inadequacy. Also, I don't think I would want to inflict myself and my own wariness on another poor unsuspecting chap yet anyway as I have quite a bit of processing and healing to do after Ex-DP's EA horrors.

I've had a great lovely meal out with a number of colleagues who are visiting our office. I met someone a lot younger than me but in the same situation. She split up with her partner 6 months ago. We've talked about meeting up when she is next around and going out together. Another thing I wouldnt have done a month ago.

Back to the bed-less house and picked up your posts.

I've had a text from the ExP saying he's staying away at his new house tonight.

I will talk to him about putting an end to this toing and froing. I don't need his help and I don't need to keep seeing his things around. I hadn't seen it as controlling but it is, as you point out, all done to suit him. No real consideration of how this impacts on me.

It's like he's playing with me. Like a cat that has caught a mouse, then lets it go, just to catch it again, all the fun of the chase.

"It's like he's playing with me. Like a cat that has caught a mouse, then lets it go, just to catch it again, all the fun of the chase."

That's exactly what he's doing.

A colleague who knows I am going through the separation, but doesn't know the details, has given me a lovely and really thoughtful card this morning. Tears. I am being brave, up to a point, but the hurt is quite close to the surface.

I feel completely lost again. It's the hug and peck on the lips yesterday morning. Please, please remind me that things have not been good.

As I see things - he has a fantasy view of what our relationship, and what our home should be like. The reality of life with me and my son does not fit this - hence he's off. He says it's because living with us is unbearable. I think he's off to start hunting for a new partner, before he's too old.

Poppy - this man of yours is good at new starts, new beginnings. That's why he's settling in so well in his new place - I bet the new neighbours think he's delightful. Superficially charming, I think the phrase is.

But he is demonstrably awful at the bit when relationships deepen. He can't compromise and he can't see anything from another point of view. He's unkind when he feels upset. He can't tolerate having to share. Emotionally, he's under 10.

Telling you how wonderful his new place is and how well he's doing is designed to make you feel bad, discarded, unworthy. It probably gives him a lovely ego boost. Under a facade of concern, and consideration of course.

The sooner you cut contact with him the sooner the whirling thoughts will settle and you will begin to see which way is up. Begin to recover. Begin to find yourself.

I'm a law abiding person, but it might be worth not following the strict letter of the law here and changing the locks. It must be awful, waiting for him to drop in when ever he feels like it. At least get some bolts fitted to the doors so he can't just walk in when you are there - that's a perfectly reasonable thing for a woman living alone to do.

Cinderford, my ex used to do that! Come around and take a huge c and leave a mess for me to clear up. I used to blame his public school upbringing (he was never made to do chores) but of course, he was marking his territory - and literally sh on me.

My, what a charmer. I'm well rid of him!

Oh Poppy - bless you. It's OK to feel crap right now - honestly. Of course, you are mourning the good bits. We all do that. It's normal. But don't kid yourself - it was not all roses, otherwise you would not have felt what you have felt and for a long time, by the sounds of it.

As I see things - he has a fantasy view of what our relationship, and what our home should be like. The reality of life with me and my son does not fit this - hence he's off. He says it's because living with us is unbearable. I think he's off to start hunting for a new partner, before he's too old.

My Ex-DP is exactly the same. Wanted the fantasy. Actively spoke of wanting perfection. Well, life just ain't like that.

And - shock, horror - not everyone in every family loves each other dearly and gets on fine all the time.

Family niggles, strife and conflict happens to the best of us from time to time - it's how a person handles it that matters. Do they a) feel hugely aggrieved that their perfect world has been tarnished, have a fit, blame their loved one for everything that's wrong, storm off / threaten to change the locks / actually change the locks/ go silent for days etc etc etc?

Or do they b) grit their teeth, swear quietly under their breath, get on with it, speak frankly but respectfully and get it out of their system, have a good yell / cry, put a brave face on it, make compromises for the sake of the person they love the most, see the funny side, get stuck in, actually value the relationships despite all the ups and downs?

I wanted to find option B in my Ex-DP. I looked for it, craved it, tried to nurture it. But whatever I did, it just wasn't there - it took me a while to work it out, but no matter what I did to try to change things, I was looking for something in him that I would never find.

IMHO you Ex-DP is totally unworthy of you. So what if he's off to find another woman? Poor woman is all I can say. He should have a health warning tattooed on his forehead.

I had counselling this morning - in floods of tears for most of it - and for the first time in my life, it was suggested to me that the roots of my issues lie in low self esteem, probably from childhood. It is a revelation and I'm now on the latest stage in my journey. I wonder perhaps whether you too might have similar issues? I am a few weeks further down the line from where you are at now - and like you I loved my Ex-DP so much that I put up with no end of abuse, because I loved him. Now, even just a few weeks later, I look back and think - hang on - how dare he have treated me like that?

BTW - most people who know me (not well, though) would be stunned at this suggestion as outwardly I am the epitome of confidence and career success. But inside - until very recently, I honestly didn't know who - fundamentally - I was, beyond being a (hopefully half decent, mother, daughter and worker).

Great post brian. You are a peach. And so is poppy.

When you look the worst things in the eye and survive, I think a new inner confidence starts to emerge.

But he is demonstrably awful at the bit when relationships deepen. He can't compromise and he can't see anything from another point of view. He's unkind when he feels upset. He can't tolerate having to share. Emotionally, he's under 10

Withouttea, That is so such a good summary..amazing that so many of us experience the same behaviour..just wonder what the cause is nurture or nature?

Poppy, Patricia Evans in her book Controlling describes what you feel.A man (or woman) has a "dream" woman and when the "real" person shows up with "normal needs" they are angry...its not what they think they should have to tolerate.

As I see things - he has a fantasy view of what our relationship, and what our home should be like. The reality of life with me and my son does not fit this - hence he's off. He says it's because living with us is unbearable. I think he's off to start hunting for a new partner, before he's too old

Poppy this is absolutely right, he had a fantasy but the reality of living together didn't meet it, not surprisingly, because you and your son are normal humans with faults. Did he think your son was going to sit in his room 24/7? Did he give any thought to what living with a teenage hoy might entail? Of course he didn't, and nor did my husband, he never lived with any of his children over the age of 8.

But he is demonstrably awful at the bit when relationships deepen. He can't compromise and he can't see anything from another point of view. He's unkind when he feels upset. He can't tolerate having to share. Emotionally, he's under 10

Withouttea that is the most brilliant description and sums my h up perfectly. I've often thought that he behaves like a toddler. Thank you.

Poppy, now that you know that you need a detox period after a hug and a peck on the lips, please consider another boundary of a no touch rule. It doesn't have to be permanent (you can tell yourself-but really ought to be). I think it is him shitting on you again...boundary busting.

Well blessed I think you and I have a lot in common. In reality I am quite insecure and have low self esteem, although I hold down a big job and run an extensive team. The counsellor told me that the fact that my partner showed no sexual interest in me will also have impacted on how I feel about myself.

hermonie maybe I should check out the book you mentioned.

I've spent the evening with a lovely friend who has been 'coaching' me on what my boundaries need to be. Telling my ExP that he's not welcome back in the house unless we agree in advance. No touching I think ought to be another - thanks.

He waited this evening for me to come home from work before before he left. He was sat reading waiting for.me to get here so that he could do the dramatic 'leaving the house'. Maybe thknkng he's leaving me in tears. You'll be proud to hear, there were none. Not one. I can't guanatee that I can keep this up. But the more I understand and can detach myself from the situation, the more empowered I am feeling. So much of his is down to your posts. Thank you

I had xposted with Blessed and Blue bell but amazed that there is such a common theme which is why we have all been drawn to Poppys thread.

Withouttea, thanks again for the summary,
It resonated with many people.

Poppy, Patricia Evans book on abusive relationships was my lightbulb moment so I was keen to read subsequent books..I struggled with her book explaining why people are abusive but she does explain the root of controlling behaviour is to maintain their dream woman image.

Well done on not reacting to his flouncing.
It is a small win so be proud of yourself.