Leopard.. spots..?

[Attilathehunny]

I've been reading a thread about husbands & prostitutes. Flowers to you wots ( new to posting not to lurking no idea how to do) I'm coming from a different angle ... say one of these men five years down the line after the wife left them....Yes lucky me! I am 6 months in with a man who pretty much did as shitty a thing to his wife as he could possibly do. Interesting he told me immediately as yes previously he was in counselling/ was sex addict etc ect usual script. He genuinely believe this though and hates himself for it. As in was celibate afterwards for 2 years. I believe him as bloody hell the stuff he told me... why lie about anything when the stuff he told me was so horrific & I had no way of knowing? My question is .. can a man change? Do they really regret it or just being caught? My bf is a bloody good ex husband bends over backwards for his ex wife ( def guilt Involved ) pay well over the top money for kids & not once complained about it, great father blah blah blah. Still though... how does someone do that?? He had a shitty upbringing. As did many people. Anyway what do you reckon ?? Can men like this change?

No.

They may not like an aspect of who they are and seek to moderate it eg they may try and avoid the circumstances that lead to them doing it. they may be successful but it will be what they come back to in the right/wrong set of circumstances (eg stress).

Basically your hoping the certain set of circumstances never happen. You need to figure out the likelihood of that being the case.

Can people change?
Yes.
Do people change?
Not easily.

Why tell you?

• because actually you might have found out
• to set you up to accept it when you discover him at it again, because it's an addiction and he has tried sooooo hard
• because he enjoyed the drama of telling you? Look at me, the damaged hero - now so honest!
• or because he's genuine

Who knows.

Impossible to say without the details - which even you don't reallly know.

I suppose my comment would be: zero tolerance. Absolutely any sign at all, and you know it isn't under control.

Btw - I'm a little sceptical about this idea of him paying way over top money for his kids. What, in relation to CMS, or what you think is a lot, or what you've heard other people get? Or in relation to what he was contributing as their married father? 6 months in, why do you even know what he pays? I am a cynical type and I think "is this some arse showing off and creating a drama out of what a hero he is now, when actually all he is doing is paying his due".

Great father? All too often men get called great fathers when they just do... parenting. Are you sure he's not just doing normal parenting?
(the great fathers are the ones that don't shit on their children's mother and wreck their family home for prostitutes in the first place)

Also the "bending over backwards" for the ex from guilt. 5 years on?
There just seems to be a lot of drama going on here.

I'd be wary.
Take him with a big pinch of salt.
Don't feed his tendency for drama.
Zero tolerance.
Allow the possibility that people change, but remember objectively that most people don't.

Thanks both of you. So interesting to get other points of views. Been wanting to post here for ages but reading recent posts has prompted me. I agree with everything you both have said but he seems so genuine!! He could have realisticly and without guilt been shagging anything and anyone that moves for the last few years and he really hasn't. Even when we met he was pretty backwards with his moves. He's incredibly damaged by his past. Hmmm I don't know. I find it very hard to think about this lovely, kind, generous man did such dreadful stuff.

Ellisandra puts it very well.Often we give credit when it should be basic standard of behaviour.

Can people change, yes they can do better when they know better.

I would say listen to your instinct, don't ignore any uncomfortable feelings you have and try to justify them away.

My XH uses prostitutes.
Fortunately I never had to listen to the selfish bullshit that it was a 'sex addiction'
He "didn't know why".

It cost him his marriage, cost me my marriage, cost my daughter her lovely two parent childhood. And yeah - she's happy now in two separate happy homes, but I'm lying to myself if I try to pretend she wouldn't rather she lived in one home with both her parents.

So...
He was reticent and slow moving with me when we met.
I thought it was because he was shy and inexperienced

He has continued to fuck prostitutes - my daughter's stepmother has already dumped him then taken him back because "it was only once". FWIW (anecdote I know) he told her "everything" - certainly he told her that he'd done it to me, and before me, and gave some bullshit reason about childhood. Told her more than he ever told me - to this day, he's never actually admitted it. Despite rather a lot of evidence

So - from her point of view, he's told her everything when he didn't need to. Except when he said it was only just the once to her. Nope - rather a lot according to his AW account

He looks so honest though.

Oh and I'm sure she thinks he's a great father. She won't know that his involvement with his child rather coincidentally stepped up to impress her. That may sound bitter ex, but it's true.

There's just rather a lot of drama, no?
As I said before - interesting that just 6 months in you know how much his child support is.

Be very very careful.
This isn't just something he did wrong in that moment. It's the sustained ability to allow himself to treat his wife like shit.

Ellisandra, I'm sorry you went through all that. The shit men do.. I'm not going to try and justify anything my bf ( or your ex!) has done or said. I guess I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt as he is a seriously great guy ( you know apart from the cheating / lying past ahem) fuck knows. What can I say? I want him to have changed but everyday I know I am watching him. Does past mistakes mean you never get to be happy again? Maybe?

I'd just be very weary. And make action plan as to what you'd do if he did do it to you. Would you see yourself having kids with him in the future if things go well?

Personally I wouldn't even entertain starting a relationship with someone like this they tend to be repeat offenders

Ellisandra states what I probably would have said. I say stay away

Keep well away. I would listen to Ellisandra who has it all spot on. You sound like you are moderately alarmed, and on alert already, it's no way to live each and every day.

Every man is different. People can and do change if they want to. They have to recognise they have a problem and deal with it. Nobody can tell you here whether he has or hasn't. You're the one looking at his body language and hearing him tell you about his past. If he appears to be bullshitting then he probably is, if he appears open and sincere then he possibly is being truthful.

Thanks for everyone's opinions. It is a shitty situation - for everyone involved. I'm constantly thinking "what if?"
He is aware of how any innocent incident can be misconstrued & has that hanging over his head. Part of me thinks fuck this it's not worth it the other half thinks. This man is amazing and complex and has a dark past but he has done everything he could possibly have done to correct it. With his ex, with future partners ( me!) going to counselling/ celibacy for years etc ect. He goes out of his way to be transparent. What else can he do? Not looking for answers just lovely to hear people's thoughts. I'm sure you'll see me back here one day with a sorry tale! I hope not though

Thete are lots of men in this world

Why settle for a substandard one ?

A "complex man with a dark past"

Asking for trouble. Don't say you weren't warned. Unless you think you are the woman he will change for...because that would be really stupid.

Hi Op,

In your heart of hearts you already feel this will not end well! Why else would post on here?

Have you felt something that you can't quite put your finger on? Look back from any red flags. I believe people can change if they really want to but it depends on what caused the behaviour/addiction and whether it was fully addressed. Is he in contact with his ex? If they don't talk amicably, that would be a red flag as if she has forgiven him because she can see a huge change then that would reassure me.

I wouldn't wish a sorry tale on you.
I'd be bloody interested to hear the wife's side of it though!

I've given you my history, you know my bias! But even that phrase about bending over backwards to help her... I find it offputting. Again - what a hero I wonder if bending over backwards simply means, behaving in a decent manner towards the mother of his children, and the woman that he shat all over.

I'd be more impressed by a reformed character quietly going about his business and informing on a need to know basis than Mr Mouth telling you how much he pays for his kids

I'm amicable with my XH.
That's because I am mostly indifferent to him now, because it is better for our child, and because it is better for my soul.
His new girlfriend should not mistake that as being anything but my bigger person choice. He is still a cunt who uses prostitutes behind her back.

I've not been in your situation OP but I've never had any respect for a person that thinks that women , fellow human beings can be bought or sold. It's unacceptable that these people can separate their wife , daughter , sister and mother from the 'bodies' they buy for an hour or two...that person is also someone's sibling and daughter.

I'd struggle OP and knowing that a partner thought this conduct okay is a deal breaker. It's about respect for fellow earthlings and those that sleep with prostitutes clearly have none.

Good luck with making your decision

Same thing on my Indian skin

Hahahha has meant to post on the thread on spotty skin!!!'

I don't think I'm the woman he would change for. I think he put in the work over the last five years in changing himself. He is a (generally) nice man that comes from a nice family & has nice friends. The realisation he was a total bastard almost finished him & he was suicidal. Again this seems to be fairly common theme on mumsnet! That's why I'm interested! Are these guys really out and out bad? Maybe they are. I don't know. If he was a friend of mine I like to think I'd give him the benefit of the doubt just bit harder when he's my bf! In answear re his ex.? Yes, they are amicable. She is very reliant on him though due to circumstances that can't really go into as bit revealing. It took them a long time to get here & she apparently believed he had changed but couldnt to bring herself to stay (can't say I blame her!)

He told you immediately and you still went into a relationship with him?

My question is, why is your relationship bar set so low?

He's incredibly damaged by his past

This isn't good, just make sure you don't commit to him until you know him well enough, at least 2 years.
Also make sure you aren't a rescuer, hoping you can save him.

There are millions of men out there - why are you wasting your time?

For me it comes down to why he's feeling so guilty/full of remorse. Is it because he equates the use of prostitutes with cheating? And with how he devastated his family? From your posts, this is all I can see.

That's bad enough, but he felt entitled to buy sex - to use women in such an abhorrent way. This would put it on a different level to cheating, imo. Does he actually realise what this says about how he thinks about/has treated women?

What do you think it says about his fundamental attitude towards women? Has he changed in this respect? Can you live with this if he hasn't?