Please help me appreciate DH more

[mossylens]

Our marriage is not great but I really want to make it better and hope that we can get through this and build a stronger relationship.

The problem is that I feel like DH doesn't do enough to help at home or with DC and he only ever does 80% of household jobs which drives me nuts. However I recognise I'm a perfectionist so I know I have different standards from him. I have tried so many times asking him to do more but he accuses me of bullying him or of using management techniques on him like I would do with a junior at work. Neither is true in my view but that is how he feels so I've given up asking but now I struggle with resenting his way of doing things or feeling like I have to do everything otherwise the house will be a total mess.

We're in the middle of renovation works and we both have busy and stressful FT jobs and 1 DC aged 3. He wants more kids but until I feel like we have an equal partnership I'm scared of going ahead. Please help me to see things differently

Personally I'd be just as upset that he gets so much him time, when you get no me time.

That's where I'd be matching him hour for hour, so if he's had an evening with a few hours out of the house, you do so the next night and leave him to it. If he has time on a Saturday, you insist on the same time on the Sunday. Shouldn't take too long for him to really see the disparity and if his answer is not to step up to the basics and insist you vut back, your only answer is to leave or accept that is your life.

I said I was him earlier. I'm not.

The difference being that I appreciate what DH does, I make time for my family, everyone has equal time off and I wouldn't manipulate DH into doing everything but gaslighting and arguing.

He sounds like a bit of a selfish wanker

Ha, he's really done a number on you with all this 'you're managing me' and 'management speak' hadn't he?

The fact is a house does require management and both people need to find a way to manage it together - just like an ongoing project.

I don't understand why him labelling it as you managing him means you instantly back down. It's like he's found the perfect way of managing you back into your box and to STFU!!!

It is actually easier when he's away apart from when DC have a tantrum then I miss having someone else to help. But otherwise things run more smoothly and there's a lot less laundry and mess!!

I back down on the whole "managing me" thing because he makes it sound like I order him around and he says I am bullying him. Just before Xmas we had a miscommunication about something which resulted in me wasting about half an hour in a shop trying to pick up a present I'd ordered which he had already picked up but not told me. When I asked him why he hadn't called or messaged me to tell me, he flipped, shouted at me, started crying and ran off outside and I found him hiding behind the garage. I found the experience quite chilling and since then have just kept quiet as much as possible as I don't want to repeat that experience

How bizarre. How does he respond when you get annoyed with him other things? Non-housework related things.

over other things. I mean

I think the suggestion to even up the "me time" is a good one, for your sake more than his.

I would like more time to do my own things. At the moment I'm either mum or in work mode and rarely get to do something for myself. I went away for a weekend with friends about 3 months ago which was brilliant but that was the last time I did something for myself.

Dancing it's not usually that bad, just a normal kind of shouty/argumentative type reaction. That was extreme but I'm scared of it happening again

Wow. Seems like he either has to change or risk losing the marriage. He can't shut down all your attempts to get things to change like that. What bullshit. Counselling or trial separation if he refuses? And yes, you should take off for some hours on a Sunday a few times too, and some evenings.

So you do all the housework, most of the meals and he does bedtime when it suits him?

And fucking off for a run then a work event on a Saturday .

I'd gather all the paperwork and sit down when he's out as usual to work out what you'd get if you spilt up.

From what you have told us, he is using you, doesn't appear to care about you at all and doesn't mean to change, using any tactics to keep you on the back foot. Running off for a boo behind the shed sounds like a 9 year old.

What does he do for a living, is he allowed to be this shit at work?

Hand on heart, he sounds a drain and I would be looking at exit options.

I don't really want to go down the road of working out what we'd each get. His parents divorced when he was young and it badly affected the relationship between DH, his siblings and their father. I want to improve things, I just don't know where or how to start.

He sounds very selfish. Once you have dc you don't just get to swan off at the weekend without prior discussion! What if you'd planned to do the same? Who would have looked after your dc?

Of course it wasn't a problem, because he knew you'd do it.
I don't think free time has to be divided out equally down to the minute, but it certainly needs to be a lot fairer than it currently is.

I think you really need to sit down and discuss it with him properly.

So what did his upbringing teach him about roles in the family? I'm guessing his father didn't settle nearby, look after himself well and see his children regularly?

You can't improve things on your own. And he's not interested in working with you. He's made that extremely plain.

This is how your marriage is. Do you want this, or do you not? Improvement isn't an option. I appreciate it's upsetting to think about things in such bald terms but there it is.

What a selfish knoblet. I am not sure anyone can help you to appreciate your DH until he actually appreciates you! Sorry

Thanks. Took a couple of days away to think it all through. I guess I was blaming myself for all the problems that have arisen, as DH always puts it on me and I'm naturally a people pleaser so find it hard not to assume I'm the problem.

I still don't want to go down the road of leaving but I definitely want things to change. If I can get DH to realise he's in danger of repeating the history of his own father (who basically walked out on MIL and her 3 young children when DH was about 10 and disappeared for years before then complaining he never got to see his kids once they were grown up) he might have a change of heart as he understands how hard it was for MIL and the impact that had on them as children

It could be difficult to do that, given that in his opinion he "does loads" and you "bully" him. Does he ever admit to getting things wrong?

Do you have a plan to help bring about change? Remember the only person you can change is yourself. So here's my suggestions:

Refuse to believe you are the problem here. You've said you've started to do that already, but the challenge is not giving any thought to it when he claims it's your fault for x, y or z.

Carve out some time for yourself. Next time he suggests you and the DC go to a non-child-friendly work event, tell him you're not interested but he can take the DCs. Use the time to do something you enjoy.

Stop doing any job in the house that is solely for his benefit, if there are any. Ironing his shirts, cleaning his muddy shoes, putting his things away (have a box for them all instead). Keep on doing the things he benefits from that are also for the family (dishwasher, laundry, for example), because I'm not suggesting some sort of protest action but management of your time and energy so that you have some downtime. He might also step up and do the jobs himself, but you can't control him, so that's his choice.

When he accuses you of being a bully, or condescending, or managing him, have a phrase to hand to say to him. Something like: "you are using words to shut me up." Don't engage if he turns out into blaming you: walk away and try again later.

His parents divorced when he was young and it badly affected the relationship between DH, his siblings and their father. I want to improve things, I just don't know where or how to start

Well, if he wants to take an interest in his children, modern day divorce allows for children to spend much more time with their fathers than it used to, firstly, and secondly, the older a child is when their parents divorce, the harder it is for them.

My father left when I was four and it was the best thing he ever did

DH is usually out with work once a week and out doing sport one evening and about half the weekend so it would feel kind of sad to stop having family meals
Doesn't seem to bother him much, since he's prepared to miss so many of them now?

The problem seems to be that he has continued to do exactly as he likes, as he has throughout your entire relationship. When you attempt to make family life more collaborative and cooperative, he accuses you of being controlling, but offers no solutions. Because he sees no problem with how things are.

OP, I have lived your life for twenty years. DH is a miserable lazy selfish fecker. It took me that long to realise I couldn't improve him or save our marriage because he didn't want to change.

Seriously don't waste the rest of your life on someone who cares more about themselves than being a good father and husband. It's not your fault. It's his.

Please read Lundy Bancroft's "should I stay or should I go". It will help you decide whether to invest more time in him or cut your losses. Also the online Freedom Programme only costs a tenner. It will open your eyes and show you how he is in fact emotionally abusing you. You may think they are too strong words, but the scales haven't fallen from your eyes yet and you still think you can change him and it's your fault your marriage isn't happy. You can't and it's not.

So "if you can get him to realise" (which he doesn't seem to have so far, despite you talking about it several times) he "might have a change of heart"? Seems a bit of a long shot when you put it like that?

Worst case: What if you can't, and he doesn't? How long are you willing to put up with it?

I understand not wanting to leave, shit, I don't think anybody ever wants to break up a marriage. But I think you need to find out where your line is, and be starkly honest about it with him, because he's seriously taking the piss, and if you do not stand up, find your boundaries and be clear about them, he's going to continue to take the piss until your marriage and any respect you ever had for each other are totally dead and eroded away. And then you will leave but it will be worse because you will have had all of those years of crapness in between.

It needs to be clear, he needs to realise now. And you do need to be prepared to leave because this kind of situation is going to destroy your marriage anyway, and also, if he doesn't think it's that serious then he's not going to change anything, because why would he?

If you are clear and he doesn't think it's worth changing for and you leave, then all you've lost is something which was rotten anyway.

mossylens I may be way off the mark but a lot of the behaviour you mention sounds like my DH who has just been diagnosed with ADHD (got my own thread running in relationships right now!). You say everything was great before you had kids but was it? Or did you just not notice how much you did for him because it was just the two of you? Because things have reached crisis for me and my DH as a result of having more kids.
The leaving tasks unfinished, constant messy chaos, getting distracted when making you tea, doing their own thing and 'forgetting' you, reacting emotionally and defensively if you question their behaviour (EVERYTHING is my fault) sounds very familiar. That would also explain his emotional outburst at forgetting to tell you he'd picked up the christmas present. Adults with undiagnosed ADHD carry lots of baggage. Do any of these symptoms sound like your DH? www.webmd.com/add-adhd/guide/10-symptoms-adult-adhd#1

Sorry but as an adult with ADHD, while I can definitely see what you're saying, ADHD doesn't cause you to completely shut your partner out when they try to talk to you about having a problem. I know that before I was diagnosed yes I did get annoyed at DH "managing me" but at the same time I could recognise there was a problem and that more of the work was falling to him. It wasn't all defensiveness although that did come out a lot and I still struggle to control those reactions. ADHD doesn't make you think that 90% of the household chores are the other adult's job, it's more likely to make you forget or not notice that 90% of them need doing at all. Yes half finishing tasks can be a part of ADHD but not in the form of laziness like putting something on top of the dishwasher but not in it (that's more "The other adult will take care of this" disorder). ADHD unfinished tasks are more things like - I'll cook but it won't occur to me to clean up - I'll hang up half the washing and leave the rest in the basket as I got distracted - I'll mop the floor but leave the mop and bucket of dirty water just sitting in the middle of the floor - more things like that.

OP, I wonder if Bertie's suggestion of a checklist of tasks would help if it was neutral (only one highlighter, or coloured dots, for example). Perhaps you could suggest it as a way of not duplicating effort?