Please help me appreciate DH more

[mossylens]

Our marriage is not great but I really want to make it better and hope that we can get through this and build a stronger relationship.

The problem is that I feel like DH doesn't do enough to help at home or with DC and he only ever does 80% of household jobs which drives me nuts. However I recognise I'm a perfectionist so I know I have different standards from him. I have tried so many times asking him to do more but he accuses me of bullying him or of using management techniques on him like I would do with a junior at work. Neither is true in my view but that is how he feels so I've given up asking but now I struggle with resenting his way of doing things or feeling like I have to do everything otherwise the house will be a total mess.

We're in the middle of renovation works and we both have busy and stressful FT jobs and 1 DC aged 3. He wants more kids but until I feel like we have an equal partnership I'm scared of going ahead. Please help me to see things differently

I might try the assigned chores. But I suspect I'll get a "stop trying to manage me" reaction and be back to square one. I would love if that worked though. If I don't ask, he will not even think to do any housework. He is supposed to do the bins but every week will ask me what day is bin day and which bin is it this week and half the time forgets on the day so I end up doing it at about 11pm after he's gone to bed!

JapaneseTea what is gas lighting?

Gaslighting is a tactic in which a person or entity, in order to gain more power, makes a victim question their reality. It works much better than you may think. Anyone is susceptible to gaslighting, and it is a common technique of abusers, dictators, narcissists, and cult leaders. It is done slowly, so the victim doesn't realize how much they've been brainwashed. For example, in the movie Gaslight (1944), a man manipulates his wife to the point where she thinks she is losing her mind.

JapaneseTea I like the suggestions to dump the stuff he leaves around in big laundry baskets and to eat at work and not cook. That would be a wake up call for him.

Fwiw it doesn't really sound like he is gaslighting you from what you have said. However, it does sound like he doesn't care whether his behaviour upsets you and fully intends to continue to allow you to bear the brunt of the work around the home and for your DC. He is supposed to be your partner and it doesn't sound like he is at all. You are not his mother (although even his mother shouldn't have to run around tidying up after a grown man) you should both be equally responsible for tasks around the home.

You shouldn't impose your standards on him nor criticise him when he has done a job just because it isn't done the way you like it though. It can be very wearing to have someone continuously nagging about things that you think are ok.

If his laziness and slobbish behaviour are a deal breaker then you need to have an honest conversation with him. If you can't stand it now it won't get better with more children it will get worse. Do you want to live like this for the rest of your life?

I am similar to your dh- the examples you give are v similar to stuff I do. Apparently.
Sometimes, he used to think it was done on purpose to wind him up! Er why?
I think I've improved on some things and he has given up on some things too. We both feel that we've made the biggest compromise.
The cleaner helps.

Would your dh be much better at housekeeping if he lived alone again, or would he be happy to carry on as is?

If you think he'd suddenly step up if it were just him, then you Diana is right, it would be a wake up call. My impression from what you've written is that you tidying his things into a basket would be an improvement on how he'd live anyway and my dh doesn't have an issue with eating late or mostly having emergency takeaways so I think you won't get the response you'd hope for.

For the bin days, how about sticking a big note on the fridge or door? That is really irritating of him.

Before dividing up the chores and risk his accusation of being managed, I'd suggest that you just don't do anything for a week or two, apart from look after your child. His stuff stays on the floor... his cups stay on the table, pots stay in the sink. Maybe quietly give the cleaner the week off too to really accelerate your point . Eat at work, or out in the evenings with your child on 'play dates' so that any cooking or dirty plates and pans are his. Once he is down to wearing his dirty underpants for days in a row and he can't find anything, he might be more receptive to dividing up the chores.
Best of luck

"How can I get DH to realise without resorting to that?"

You've got meet somewhere in the middle if you marriage is to survive.

Maybe this is the time to find a good marriage guidance counsellor, but you are both going to have to work really hard on changing this one aspect of your personalities. He needs to do more and you need to demand less.

Maybe this sounds stupid but if I stopped cooking or took DC for a meal out then we'd basically have no time at all in the week together as a family and then DC would hardly see DH. DH is usually out with work once a week and out doing sport one evening and about half the weekend so it would feel kind of sad to stop having family meals. But maybe it would be a wake up call so I'd be prepared to try it. When you write it down it all seems quite petty and just makes me sad we're in this situation. Pre kids DH would frequently make dinner for us without me asking and I used to think he was a good cook but I can't remember the last time he spontaneously cooked anything for me.

Atenco how can I work on being less demanding? Just suck up the things I don't like and let them carry on? Or something different? It would be good to hear more examples of what you do if you're like my DH as sometimes
I just don't understand how he can get as far as say, putting dirty plates and cutlery next to the sink, but not take the extra 20 seconds to open the dishwasher door. I always find myself wondering when he is planning to come back and finish the job!

My partner is like your husband. His place was a tip before we lived together as well. I have learnt to let the little things go and it's made life so less stressful for me. He has his own dirty washing bin and knows things will only get washed if they are in there. If he wants to wear his pants two days in a row or his chill out gear all week it doesn't bother mE anymore. He washes his own stuff etc now as i just left them for him to do. I pick up crap as I go along and he has a big bin down by his side of the sofa to put his rubbish bin which he will now empty.

I used to get so stressed out over stupid things like not rinsing the sink out after a shave but who sees that but us? No one!

I also lowered my high standards. It took a while for me to learn to chill out but I'm happier and so is he. Our home is a home not a show house. Life is messy and houses and kids get that way too. I found the more you rage against the machine the more it will seize up completely. Does it matter if my partner has left the plates soaking? No. At least he put them in the sink!

I knew he was a messy sod when I met him but love him for him, messy habits and all.

If I want a sparkling tidy house then I will clean it. If we have guests coming over then he helps me tidy as we go along. (I'll tidy up etc and then he will Hoover and wash the floors)

It took me the deaths of too many loved ones to realise that life isn't worth getting wound up about silly housework chores.

As for hobbies, can you afford a babysitter (or have family)to look after your little one so you can take up your hobbies again with your husband every week or get out the house, even for a meal (no washing up)

You sound exhausted trying to have things perfect and to your standards. It isn't worth it at the end of the day sweetie.

Sod a tidy house. Get a dishwasher! bung everything in pretty boxes that annoys you and sort out when full. Muck about on the unvacuumed floor with your kiddie.

I'd now rather sit with my messy sod and watch a film in the evening whilst we make each other laugh or discuss bad plots than have a clean kitchen etc. because I know one day one of us may not be there anymore.

Worse than the housework seems to be that your work is facilitating him swanning around with hobbies and time off. That's not OK if you have no time to yourself. He'd have to cook if you were out half the weekend and two nights a week!

I don't think telling him you're assigning chores is the way to go (and makes me think that it's possible you're a tiny bit of the problem). I think saying, "I have no time to myself, I'm bored, boring, stressed and I want things to change. What are we going to do to get some balance?". And then listen.

What do you say when you do the bins when it's his job? It's OK to tell him you feel sad or disappointed.

I think you need to expect him to come up with solutions here, since he is critical if your attempts so far.

Why does he not finish the jobs he starts? He just forgets or gets distracted, maybe. No, because if that were the case, he would accept the reminder, not gag you with accusations of nagging.

So why does he just do half-jobs then? The only reason I can think of is that he thinks he has done enough. I remember doing that as a teenager. I grew out of it...

Confront him with this line of reasoning. Ask him, if he is so averse to "nagging", how he thinks he could learn to pull his weight in the house.

Whenever I've brought it up in the past he says he "does loads" and that I'm bullying him or being condescending asking him to do more. So I've pretty much retreated as it would just be going over the same old arguments again. I'm trying to notice and appreciate all the things he does do rather than nag or comment on what he doesn't do. But other than put DC to bed a few nights a week or some ad hoc DIY stuff I have to ask him to do almost everything/anything else.

He doesn't sound as though he is pulling his weight at all and you don't sound like a perfectionist. God, I'm awfully messy, and seriously, your standards sound fine.

Show him that comic. The one that someone already linked and has been in the mainstream press even this week. The one which points out that management of household tasks is a thing, and women generally do bloody all of it and also that once people take on management roles at work, they're normally not expected to actually do all of the things they are managing as well as manage them. But a home is like that and he's waiting for you to be the manager.

I really, really don't think you can meet him any more in the middle. It's as though he's taking up 90% of the bed and complaining that he doesn't have enough duvet. You can't budge over any more because you'll fall out! If it's not clear the "bed" in this scenario is your free time, mental health and sanity.

He does need a wake up call. I do hope it doesn't take divorce for him to realise that but sadly some men just stubbornly refuse to see it. What a mess. You're absolutely right that you can't have more children together while this situation is ongoing.

Can you make some time to go over this together and state your case, plainly, would he respect you enough to listen without saying it's "manipulation" or "nagging"?

Well he obviously has to up his ante for your marriage to have a chance. Where you could change if he's worth it, is not to get too upset about the 80%s.

I'm hesitant to suggest this because I don't think it's your job to "prove" that you're doing more/he's not doing enough but an exercise which has helped a friend get her husband to see things slightly differently -

She made a list of all of the tasks that need to be done to make the family function. Then she taped two highlighters to the list and stuck it to the fridge. Every time she did a task she coloured it in with her pen. Every time her husband did a task, he coloured one in with his pen. It just made everything very immediately obvious and clear who was doing 90% of the work.

I'm a bit of a neat freak so I do all the housework pretty much. I don't mind, because life is too short to nag. DP has very low standards and I don't see why I should "win" just because mine are higher. Besides, I only work about 40 hours a week and he has his own business so is out of the house a lot longer.

It really doesn't take too long out of my week to do chores, I don't find it a huge burden. I just think it's easier to crack on and do it.

heron I used to think that too but since having DC I just don't have enough time. On an average day I'll be up at 6 to get ready for work before DC are up at 6.30 then we're out the door by 7.15 for me to do nursery drop before getting to work. I do nursery pick up and get home at either 6 or 6.30 depending on whether I've managed to get the early train or not. We have supper together with DC and then either DH or I will put DC to bed. He does that 2 or 3 times a week and I do the others. In theory he would wash up if I put DC to bed but in practice he's out with work or doing sport a couple of nights a week so I end up doing both. DC takes ages to go to sleep so it's usually 8.30 or 8.45 before I can start tidying the kitchen or do any laundry. I often bring work home as well so will do a couple of hours day 9-11pm and then I just have to go to bed ready for the next day so other than clearing the kitchen/dinner and doing a load of laundry I just don't have time for anything else. Unless I'm doing it all wrong?

Bertie anything that would be considered "competitive" trying to prove who was doing what would just be dismissed as a management technique or me trying to prove I'm better than him and probably have the reverse effect. I've thought about it but fear it would backfire on me and just make things worse. It's wearing me down though and I do feel very resentful. I wish I didn't but there's always something eg this morning DH got up before I was awake and when I woke he was downstairs packing his bag to go for a run. He'll be gone until about 1pm leaving me with DC all morning. He didn't mention any of his plans last night or ask if I had anything I wanted to do this morning. He just gets up and goes off to do his stuff. This afternoon he's going out to a work event. He asked if DC and I wanted to come but it's not really child friendly so I'd rather not. But then I get stuck with DC by myself again! And then he wonders why I am in a bad mood when he gets home from having a nice relaxing run and a fun work event and I've been stuck trying to do all the housework and juggle DC by myself. I just don't know if I've lost all sense of perspective though. He isn't intentionally doing it, and I can't tell him to stop doing his sport, it's a huge part of his life and social life so I feel really stuck and don't know how to make things better. I sometimes wish we hadn't had DC as things were great before we had kids

If he doesn't know then he should. If he won't listen then stop telling him and just leave.

I mean this is not about you having high standards. Not from your description of what he is actually doing. This is about him not even doing the most basic of things you could expect him to - doing a fair share and not making more work for you.

Your biggest problem is that he isn't listening to you and isn't willing to cooperate. He is dismissing your concerns and telling you very clearly that he has no intention whatsoever of changing.
I'm sorry but if I was in your situation I would lose all respect and affection for him and I'd be making it extremely clear to him that his behaviour and attitude was killing the relationship.

I mean this is not about you having high standards. Not from your description of what he is actually doing. This is about him not even doing the most basic of things you could expect him to - doing a fair share and not making more work for you

I am exhausted just reading the details of your average day and then for your dh to go out to his sport, etc. on top of that....

I don't think I could be doing with such a selfish man. But I do think you should have a cleaner who does all the housework, because when do you get to enjoy time with your child otherwise?