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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Help me articulate to DP just how very wrong this all is...

75 replies

stinkingbishop · 15/05/2017 21:08

...and exactly what I want to change. Need advice from feisty ladies because am feeling a bit defeated by it all.

It's not LTB quite yet but gosh we're close. And this will seriously out me to anyone who knows me IRL but, you know what, give me a call Smile.

Been with DP for 7 years. I have an older DD from a previous relationship. DP and I have reception age DTDs. We both worked and met in high earning roles in London, but moved north with his job when the DTDs were only 6 months. I cannot do what I did here. But also I want to be more present for them than I was for DD, so not on a plane all the time, particularly given DP is. Am therefore retraining in something which will mean ultimately I can have a part time that can fit around them. I also love it. And it's 'worthy' (relevant later). My retraining is salaried ie I am earning while doing it.

DP's job got relocated quite soon after we had moved to another European country so he commutes Mon-Fri and then there are intercontinental trips and ones which eat into the weekend. And he hates it. And it is the opposite of 'worthy'. But 5x my current salary.

We haven't had sex for 3 years. He told me it was because his job had made him fat (it has) and he felt unattractive so hard to feel sexy. I have been patient, I thought. His weight has also lead to v heavy snoring, to the extent we no longer share a bedroom, even on holiday. Go figure.

And I have been getting increasingly resentful of what I perceive as inequity in the relationship. I know I am at home, but I work too, and yet I do everything related to the DTDs, all the business of managing the house and the family, including at the weekends when he's back. He will do his best Disney Dad impression and take them to the sweetie shop and off swimming and to McDonalds and then ask me if I enjoyed my rest when he gets back. Getting him to supervise their homework is almost as hard as getting them to do it. I know he has a hard job but when he finishes he goes to a hotel room. I put the DTDs to bed, run up and down the stairs about 5 times to yells of MUMMY, do the washing, stitch name tapes, order presents online for their friends' parties, do the garden, change the beds, plan the menus, grab some porridge for dinner...I think you all know what I mean.

Money-wise he resisted getting a joint account for ages. We now have one. I put all my salary into it. He puts in a set amount. Which we always go over. So I have to write begging emails justifying why we've gone over to e.g. buy a new mattress or the water bill was higher (because he left the hose on) or contents insurance or whatever. It's never that I had me nails done!!!

That's the background.

Yesterday, with depressing inevitability, I found an email thread with a woman he knew from Uni. Very flirty, offering to meet near hers, ours or his European base. Sex was mentioned. She then cancelled.

I took a screenshot (thanks MN!!!) which was as well because he then deleted them from Trash. He went through the usual script - minimising ('nothing happened'), blaming her ('she's mad!'), and me ('we both know something's wrong, I guess I should have spoken up') etc. But then he did retreat quickly to a 'maybe it's good you saw it, maybe it's the wake-up call I need'. That it had forced the issue etc. He suggested couples counselling and has taken responsibility to sort it. I told him if he was honest NOW there was a tiny % chance we could salvage something. But if he wasn't, and I later found something, which I would, then that was that. He admitted that maybe he was a 'bit overly familiar...inappropriate with women at work...but they're all married, pregnant...nothing serious, all banter'.

He has been offered a job based near home and is resigning tomorrow so that he can be with us. He said I should look at his actions not his words, and that is evidence that we are the most important thing for him and how serious he takes the need for him to change.

But then we also had a screaming session with him saying he resented 'funding the family doing something that makes me miserable' and me screaming back about how you don't effing 'fund' your own family, like he's giving us some kind of philanthropic grant or something, that it's a bloody partnership, that they're his children too, that if I didn't exist he'd be 'funding' a full time nanny and housekeeper and gardener and cook and PA and...He just can't see it. He equates being at home with having an easy life. But I work at work during the day, and then work at the family by night. And the weekends. He works during the day, and then apparently just sexts people in the evening and spoils the DTDs at the weekend.

ARRRRRRRGGGHHHHH.

This is too long already, sorry. I just can't seem to get my words right anymore on this or to him. It seems all too depressingly like the countless threads on here when I want to yell at somebody to stop being a mug. But now it's me.

My questions are:

  1. How do I get him to see it doesn't effin' matter that nothing happened. Only because she cancelled. It's just complete betrayal. I get miserable/bored/lonely too. I haven't had sex for 3 years. But I don't do that.
  1. How do I get him to see the inequity in terms of work-work and house/family-work?
  1. How do I get him to see the financial inequity? I just feel utterly precarious. I screamed at him yesterday that if he felt so hard done by he could bugger off and then would only have to give 10% of his precious money to the CSA and could hoard the rest. I give everything. All my savings have gone into the house.
  1. What should I insist on as demonstration of his fidelity and commitment? Passwords? A ring?

Thank you to anyone who has read this far. Hopefully I have cured your insomnia Wink.

OP posts:
stinkingbishop · 16/05/2017 11:55

Oh Goddddddd......

You're right. I would scoop the 3 of them up and we would all go and live happily, tidily, lovingly and respectfully by the sea.

OP posts:
DoIDontIhavethetalk · 16/05/2017 12:22

It's an idea you can plan, OP - doesn't necessarily mean you have to go through with it.

ItWentDownMyHeartHole · 16/05/2017 12:25

So if, in your opinion, this type of relationship wouldn't be good enough for your daughters then it's not good enough for you. Divorce/separation is shitty for kids but staying in a relationship which gives you so little comfort is too shitty for you.
If couples therapy doesn't teach the old dog new tricks (FIL & MIL have produced in their son some very bad habits) then surely it's over?
I have a feeling you'd be better living a smaller, tidier life by the sea. Whatever you decide to do good luck with it.

RunRabbitRunRabbit · 16/05/2017 20:21

Don't send Wifework to him. It is for you. The main thrust of the book is about women's own complicity in adopting the 1950s housewife role as soon as they live with a man and/or have babies. There is plenty of uncomfortable material about women's own role in upholding the patriarchy and all that. It will be fascinating for you.

It's great that he's decided for you that the OW is nothing. How reassuring.

Why was your DD affected so badly by the divorce?

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 16/05/2017 20:26

Shit - it's a shame you aren't married but you are entitled to half the house.

Depends what's on the deeds.

Funnyonion17 · 16/05/2017 20:27

That doesn't sound like a relationship to me. It seems like a setup of convenience, mostly for him.

MissShittyBennet · 16/05/2017 20:30

XW took him to the cleaners, eh? Heard that one before. Would be interesting to know the details.

Also do you own as joint tenants or tenants in common? That makes a difference to how much of the house you'd get. No guarantee of 50/50 based on what you've posted.

AnyFucker · 16/05/2017 20:34

He "sees" it alright. He sees it very well. But he gets the Life of Riley while you do all the shitwork.

Why would he want to change that ?

Desperad0 · 16/05/2017 22:15

Is he actually paying into the 'joint account' any more than you would get for the twins anyway? Maybe you would be better off without him?

LadyLapsang · 16/05/2017 22:46

With everything which has been going on, what I don't understand is that if he is serious about investing in your relationship, why is he going sailing with a friend and not coming home to spend some time with you and the children?

stinkingbishop · 16/05/2017 23:05

Done some delving. Tenants in common and drew up an agreement whereby we get our savings back and then rest is 50:50. If he's serious will get him to change it. If he's not, will fight it. Thanks for the children's act suggestion someone mentioned above. As I put extra savings in and obviously haven't saved anymore whereas he has. Also, yes, doing the maths his current monthly contribution to the joint account is almost exactly 20% of his income. Ha!

Against all this righteous fury inducing stuff...1. He has resigned and signed the new contract 2. He has sent me availability for 3 local counsellors 3. He has booked an IFA to come and see us and review all our finances to think about putting some in my name for tax etc. This is all positive I think.

Sailing...in 2 minds. I told him I was quite happy about the timing because the friend is fab, I really like, is very respectful of his own missus and I thought might knock some sense into him. With a large rudder...

Am feeling calm. Is that weird?

OP posts:
CocoaLeaves · 16/05/2017 23:05

Go for the cottage by the sea Flowers

43percentburnt · 17/05/2017 06:16

Stinking - few questions but don't feel you need to put your answers here. with your share of the equity can you afford to buy a smaller property outright?
Have you checked entitled to, depending on your earnings you may be entitled to extras (plus 25% off council tax) and be better off single.

I'm shocked he isn't cancelling his boat trip.

Surely if he is away with work he has plenty of time to visit the gym in the hotel? If he was at home he would have to cook and tidy up etc - instead meals are cooked and pots taken away, (launders facilities too?) this time could have been gym time.

I do think the woodwork and bridge comment is pretty telling. He equates 'home' with going out socialising, making new friends and having a fun time.

JudeeLevinson · 17/05/2017 06:33

Jesus love, I think Bognor Regis has to be preferable over living with this sleazy piece of work. You are his housekeeper, nothing more. He is treating you like an appliance.

I for one hope there is some romance and hot sex and true companionship in your future, and seagulls.

NoSquirrels · 17/05/2017 08:09

Ask him to be honest with his friend- otherwise he probably won't be.

All the IFA and numbers of counsellors sounds positive. He asked you to judge him on his actions - you don't need to come to a conclusion immediately. When you have DC you need to be considered and not jump - right now you are feeling so betrayed, and this will last for a (possibly long) while. Monitor things, make sure these gestures now turn into real change.

Flowers If he goes sailing this weekend, you need to arrange a weekend away shortly, by yourself/with a friend.

NoSquirrels · 17/05/2017 08:11

What I mean is, right now there are no right or wrong answers to whether you should stay or go - either might be for the best. So give yourself time to adapt. Don't worry too much about him - he can work in himself. You worry about you.

victoryinthekitchen · 31/05/2017 08:10

you ok Bishop? Flowers

Loopytiles · 31/05/2017 08:52

Sounds like way, way too many issues (with him) for the relationship to be salvageable IMO: suggest you get legal advice and investigate finances.

stinkingbishop · 08/06/2017 14:56

Hello again! Sorry, we were away on holiday and thought the thread had dried up anyway. So, the latest:

Counselling didn't happen because he got the days mixed up (gnarr). We have our first session instead this afternoon - cripes!

We had babysitting booked for the original counselling session, which was the day before the holiday, so I asked if we could stick to it and go out for a drink/chat instead. Which we did, but he announced at the beginning 'let's just concentrate on having a nice holiday'. Which I get, but it really peeved me. Similarly for the first few days on holiday I got a 'what's wrong?' snapped whenever I wasn't jolly...so I just, as suggested, concentrated on enjoying the holiday and it was perfectly fine. Lots of nice comments about my mothering, how much he loves me, how proud he is of me etc. And he was making a VERY transparent effort to be helpful - constant questions about what I needed doing in the villa, did I need suncream, could he go shopping etc. This may have been because I was conspicuously reading Wifework Wink. Although I absolutely understand the book's thesis about the mental load. He offered to do the weekly shop with the girls the Sunday we were back while I had a 'rest' (which involved unpacking all our suitcases and laundering!) But 'doing the weekly shop' involved my going through the fridge, throwing out the out of date stuff, planning the week's meals (which meant asking him about his movements because they're never on the family calendar), going through the fridge and freezer and cupboards to work out what we needed, looking out bags for him, running out after the car with said bags because he'd forgotten them, getting the girls dressed for him, unpacking the shopping when they got back...But still. At least he did it. And it was spontaneous.

Then literally the day we got back - last weekend - back into same old. Complete lack of attention/gratitude/thought...off to work abroad on Monday with no contact, got drunk on Monday night and lost his wallet...

On the other hand though...he has come back specially for this session. I told him the joint account needed topping up and he did it immediately, and with more than we need (where does this money come from, hm?) I asked today whether I could spend some (really quite a lot of) money on PT sessions to get me started on exercising (haven't done any since school!)

Swings and roundabouts.

In the meantime, I am OK. Have not decided. Keeping my mind open and clear. I am seeing the lawyer on Monday. He doesn't know this. There's no pressure on time, but I do want to get this absolutely right.

Thanks all of you. This board gives such a fantastic sense of solidarity, and a welcome chance to test out thoughts and see alternative points of view without the possible bias IRL. It feels very protective, and I'm so glad it exists.

OP posts:
yetmorecrap · 08/06/2017 15:31

Thats what Im doing OP-- keeping an open mind. Lawyer told me , when there is no actual "abuse" why the rush!! . Do your own thing, stop making them feel the centre of everything. Make a few "demands" if you have never done so before . If they do stuff you dont like, bring it to attention instead of simmering, then keep reassessing every 6 months. She emphasised to me the number of women who put themselves in bad situations whereas unless it was unbearable they would be better concentrating on putting themselves in a better position and detaching a little.

butterfly990 · 08/06/2017 19:19

Whilst you are doing the financial review, make sure you sort out wills and who is assigned to pensions etc.

timeisnotaline · 08/06/2017 21:29

I'd go on holiday. Make him take a few days leave and manage daily life.

CharlotteCollinsneeLucas · 08/06/2017 22:16

Goodness, OP. Re-read that paragraph you wrote about the shopping. I think instead of ending with "but at least..." It would be more appropriate to say something along the lines of "is that all he can manage?! When he's on his best behaviour?"

Your expectations are way, way too low.

victoryinthekitchen · 10/06/2017 21:04

it would seem 'yetmorecrap' has sensible advice, in not rushing and instead taking a measured approach. Can't advise personally on this one but hope you're not feeling too worn down by it all Cake.

stinkingbishop · 21/06/2017 09:19

Hello kind ones. Just a wee update as I hate it when I've invested emotionally in a thread and then the OP disappears!

I had my meeting with the lawyer which was very useful and has helped me be a little more in control. Though it felt almost like a betrayal as I met DP coincidentally on the train back and had to make up a complete lie about where I'd been!

He is being, in a 'look at what I do, not what I say' way, exceptionally loving and complimentary, and helpful around the house and with the DTDs, without having to be asked. Though there are still niggles. And I tried very unsuccessfully to blurt at him about the mental load...

We have also properly started the business of counselling. Some very interesting things coming out. Including the world's most random/least romantic half-proposal yesterday when he announced that he'd been thinking the best possible outcome, if we can get this all back on track in 1/2/3 years, would be to seal and symbolise it all by getting married. Life's funny Smile.

On the money, his point is it's just not a big deal, he admits he hasn't done enough to make it equitable and transparent, and gets the whole power imbalance, but he just doesn't think about it. So, marriage or not, maybe that would change. He's sorting us an IFA to meet with together.

Can't remember if I said upthread but he's started on ADs. I was v impressed by that acknowledgement and taking of responsibility.

So I still don't know. But it's more 50:50 now in terms of my decision. And I'm just taking my time. Thanks all so much for being my sounding board.

OP posts:
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