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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Help me articulate to DP just how very wrong this all is...

75 replies

stinkingbishop · 15/05/2017 21:08

...and exactly what I want to change. Need advice from feisty ladies because am feeling a bit defeated by it all.

It's not LTB quite yet but gosh we're close. And this will seriously out me to anyone who knows me IRL but, you know what, give me a call Smile.

Been with DP for 7 years. I have an older DD from a previous relationship. DP and I have reception age DTDs. We both worked and met in high earning roles in London, but moved north with his job when the DTDs were only 6 months. I cannot do what I did here. But also I want to be more present for them than I was for DD, so not on a plane all the time, particularly given DP is. Am therefore retraining in something which will mean ultimately I can have a part time that can fit around them. I also love it. And it's 'worthy' (relevant later). My retraining is salaried ie I am earning while doing it.

DP's job got relocated quite soon after we had moved to another European country so he commutes Mon-Fri and then there are intercontinental trips and ones which eat into the weekend. And he hates it. And it is the opposite of 'worthy'. But 5x my current salary.

We haven't had sex for 3 years. He told me it was because his job had made him fat (it has) and he felt unattractive so hard to feel sexy. I have been patient, I thought. His weight has also lead to v heavy snoring, to the extent we no longer share a bedroom, even on holiday. Go figure.

And I have been getting increasingly resentful of what I perceive as inequity in the relationship. I know I am at home, but I work too, and yet I do everything related to the DTDs, all the business of managing the house and the family, including at the weekends when he's back. He will do his best Disney Dad impression and take them to the sweetie shop and off swimming and to McDonalds and then ask me if I enjoyed my rest when he gets back. Getting him to supervise their homework is almost as hard as getting them to do it. I know he has a hard job but when he finishes he goes to a hotel room. I put the DTDs to bed, run up and down the stairs about 5 times to yells of MUMMY, do the washing, stitch name tapes, order presents online for their friends' parties, do the garden, change the beds, plan the menus, grab some porridge for dinner...I think you all know what I mean.

Money-wise he resisted getting a joint account for ages. We now have one. I put all my salary into it. He puts in a set amount. Which we always go over. So I have to write begging emails justifying why we've gone over to e.g. buy a new mattress or the water bill was higher (because he left the hose on) or contents insurance or whatever. It's never that I had me nails done!!!

That's the background.

Yesterday, with depressing inevitability, I found an email thread with a woman he knew from Uni. Very flirty, offering to meet near hers, ours or his European base. Sex was mentioned. She then cancelled.

I took a screenshot (thanks MN!!!) which was as well because he then deleted them from Trash. He went through the usual script - minimising ('nothing happened'), blaming her ('she's mad!'), and me ('we both know something's wrong, I guess I should have spoken up') etc. But then he did retreat quickly to a 'maybe it's good you saw it, maybe it's the wake-up call I need'. That it had forced the issue etc. He suggested couples counselling and has taken responsibility to sort it. I told him if he was honest NOW there was a tiny % chance we could salvage something. But if he wasn't, and I later found something, which I would, then that was that. He admitted that maybe he was a 'bit overly familiar...inappropriate with women at work...but they're all married, pregnant...nothing serious, all banter'.

He has been offered a job based near home and is resigning tomorrow so that he can be with us. He said I should look at his actions not his words, and that is evidence that we are the most important thing for him and how serious he takes the need for him to change.

But then we also had a screaming session with him saying he resented 'funding the family doing something that makes me miserable' and me screaming back about how you don't effing 'fund' your own family, like he's giving us some kind of philanthropic grant or something, that it's a bloody partnership, that they're his children too, that if I didn't exist he'd be 'funding' a full time nanny and housekeeper and gardener and cook and PA and...He just can't see it. He equates being at home with having an easy life. But I work at work during the day, and then work at the family by night. And the weekends. He works during the day, and then apparently just sexts people in the evening and spoils the DTDs at the weekend.

ARRRRRRRGGGHHHHH.

This is too long already, sorry. I just can't seem to get my words right anymore on this or to him. It seems all too depressingly like the countless threads on here when I want to yell at somebody to stop being a mug. But now it's me.

My questions are:

  1. How do I get him to see it doesn't effin' matter that nothing happened. Only because she cancelled. It's just complete betrayal. I get miserable/bored/lonely too. I haven't had sex for 3 years. But I don't do that.
  1. How do I get him to see the inequity in terms of work-work and house/family-work?
  1. How do I get him to see the financial inequity? I just feel utterly precarious. I screamed at him yesterday that if he felt so hard done by he could bugger off and then would only have to give 10% of his precious money to the CSA and could hoard the rest. I give everything. All my savings have gone into the house.
  1. What should I insist on as demonstration of his fidelity and commitment? Passwords? A ring?

Thank you to anyone who has read this far. Hopefully I have cured your insomnia Wink.

OP posts:
Ironmanrocks · 15/05/2017 22:21

Not to the same scale but I used to have similar issues with money. We aren't married, have 1 child and a house and I do everything for my boy and work 2 days a week. Out of my money I was paying for my phone, the car insurance and fuel and food for all of us including everything extra (like clothes) for myself and my son. My wage barely covered the food. So while I was overdrawn, he was paying in more to his pension, buying gadgets and phones and saving loads of money. Yet when it came to holidays or meals out he expected me to go halves with him.
It took several long chats and me getting very upset, but my main argument was that if he carried on the way he was, we would have to work out everything percentage wise. So if he earned, for instance, £900 and I earned £100, he would pay 90% and I would pay 10%. It shut him up and I now have a card to his account for when I need it! hope this may be a way for you?xx

KumquatIsMySafeWord · 15/05/2017 22:27

You've not had sex in 3 years because he's full of fucking excuses. Feels fat, unattractive etc all because of his job.
First off, if his weight effects his self esteem to the point you've not had sex for 3 years then why the hell doesn't he get his arse down to the gym for half an hour a day or go for a run after work?
Secondly, how is it he's to fat and unattractive to want to have sex with you but obviously feels sexy enough to sext and plan on shagging OW?

NoSquirrels · 15/05/2017 22:28

OK - he doesn't believe you're serious. About how disrespectful he's been. About how you'll leave. About how his life needs to change.

He needs to hear you. Line in the sand.

He makes time for what you need - above and beyond any other diary commitments- or you'll be at the solicitor making your own priority arrangements.

JayneAusten · 15/05/2017 22:29

I'm sorry but it just doesn't sound like either of you like or respect the other one. He's checked out and it sounds like you have too, albeit very passively. He's still been a dick, mind. I don't have advice but I do hope you manage to extricate yourself with the minimum of disruption for the girls.

AnnieAnoniMouse · 15/05/2017 22:30

Yes, & no sex for 3 years? What's with that? Clearly nothing stopping him getting sexy with others. Wanker. 😡

He wants to be home more, so he can go out more...

He's prattling on about that after you discovering his emails/contact with other women. Do he not have any self awareness?

I understand you're worried about the twins being affected in the same way as DD was, but the thing you have to consider is, what is the alternative? Showing them this is acceptable? Modelling this as a relationship? Far more damaging I'd have thought.

StiginaGrump · 15/05/2017 22:56

The issue with separation is that the damage to children is immediately evident, let's face it they never like change. They also have no sense of the longer term harm and of how a corrosive relationship undermines their self worth too.

The only point to a partner is to enhance your life, short term hiccups are worth it for long term reward. Your partner must love you best,mike you most and bring out the best in you. If that's not there what coukd ever be the point.

You have so much worth and capacity so spend it on you, your kids and enjoy your next better relationship.

StiginaGrump · 15/05/2017 22:57

Mike you most...kinky Huh, or maybe just like you most!!

cryinginthebreaks · 15/05/2017 22:58

It's not you doing it to the little ones- it is him- his fuck up and even still he does not get it. More time at home my ass.

Iggi999 · 15/05/2017 22:59

Do you feel any love still for him? Can you imagine yourself loving him again, and what would need to change to make that happen?

stinkingbishop · 15/05/2017 23:14

Oh I don't know. All so confusing. Have just spoken to him on the phone and he was in tears. He's resigning tomorrow and said they can't talk him out of it as he'lllp "just say my relationship is on the line". Which sounds like someone who 'gets it'.

I agree with the comment about modelling roles to our daughter. I've said about eleventy billion times that the most important thing he can do for the girls (whom he genuinely does head over heels love) is show them, by the way he treats me, what they should expect as women. And he nods. But...

Thank you so much for all your counsel. You're very fog-lifting. My short term plan is:

My own counselling
Insist on couples counselling to happen like yesterday
See a lawyer
Have ordered Wifework to arrive addressed to him ...
Think if I love him or could. I know I did.

OP posts:
cryinginthebreaks · 15/05/2017 23:17

Sounds like a good plan

NoSquirrels · 15/05/2017 23:24

Don't rush. It's all new and confusing. Get yourself a counsellor sorted and keep calm.

You'll need to hold him to account, so you need to be strong about that. But focus on you, and make him do the running, the organising, the effort. Don't be tempted to sort it out for him.

Don't feel bad about being fucking furious, either.

Make sure you take time to yourself, without the DC to process things.

Flowers
notapizzaeater · 15/05/2017 23:34

You have to decide what you actually want not what he wants

Take time and look after yourself

Sprinklestar · 16/05/2017 02:58

I'd play the long game. Use the situation to force his hand and get married. Ultimatum time. Doesn't have to be much, just a quick registry office do. And then get your ducks in a row, all the while pretending that you're keen for things to work, then take him to the cleaners.

user1486956786 · 16/05/2017 04:06

Wow above comment by sprinkle star is so horrible.

I haven't read every post but I suggest you need two emergency / meeting action plan. You both need help from each other.

  • Perhaps a less stressful job for him? If mortgage paid off hopefully this is possible.
  • Work out exactly how much needs to go into joint account so you aren't asking for more money.
  • Work out legal agreement in the event of a future break up.
  • Perhaps one weekend day he looks after kids fully to give you a proper well deserved break.
  • get some time together , fun times

Emotional affair was very bad on his part but he sounds very remorseful. So take your time going through these emotions and decide if you can get past it.

It sounds like you guys are stuck in a huge huge rut and are both just absolutely exhausted and I every confidence you can get through this if you both work together :-) and with some serious ass licking from him!

WellErrr · 16/05/2017 07:35

Sprinkle Hmm

stinkingbishop · 16/05/2017 09:05

user I think, whilst still minimising, he is genuinely sorry. It's worth noting though that, although he's coming back from work tonight, having resigned, he's still planning on going sailing tomorrow with his friend till Sunday!!!! Plus when I said I'd heard the OW on the radio yesterday in just an utterly horrid coincidence, his comment was 'that's just not worth a mention, she's nothing'.

Hmm.

His new job I think will be every bit as stressful. It's just it's 10 minutes' commute, which will massively ease things. With only UK travel.

Swings and roundabouts...

Just want to go and sit by the sea on my own for a while and cry. So hard. And as some have identified, unlike him, I don't have a minute to myself to think/feel!

OP posts:
JennyHolzersGhost · 16/05/2017 09:10

I think you should probably add £ to that action plan - insist on either a proper shared account or sit down and go through the outgoings and then get him to pay half into the account he's currently paying into. Buying clothes for you and the kids on eBay while he has a boat doesn't sound right to me. If as you say he is going through a remorseful (while still not apparently really getting it) patch, this shouldn't be something he finds it hard to do. If he does, then I guess it's issue #1 on the list for couples counselling - if you still feel it is worth pursuing that route. SadFlowers sorry OP but I just don't think that he gets it.

BluePeppers · 16/05/2017 09:20

The penny hasn't dropped yet which is why you need couple counselling ASAP.

Atm he thinks the issue is him being away too much, a job that he hates and the issue with that woman that's isn't really an issue because it never happened. Sonhis ideal life is back at home being able to do the things he enjoys, having free time etc etc
You see massive issues linked with the finances, and his lack of personal investment in the family life as well as the fact you are in your own to parent the dcs.

In effect youbboth have issues but they aren't the same. You knew what his issues were but he still has no idea of what yours are.

I would try and explain to him what is an issue for yu and tell him what you expect him to do. Don't make a long list but the one or twinthgsbthat will make a huge difference for you (e.g. Having some down time yourself, as much as he has or a better arrangement finance wise). The. You will be able to go into more details during the counselling.

DoIDontIhavethetalk · 16/05/2017 09:24

I think it is unlikely you will get him to 'see' if 'see' means to care about his relationship actually being a true partnership.

I see this bollocks time and again, I've lived it time and again. So many men out there who are stuck in the 1950's mindset (by choice I think if they were to actually have a moment's honestly with themselves and the partner they supposedly love) of work outside of the home for men = minimum input inside the home.

I had the same shit from my last partner and his opinion hasn't changed.

stinkingbishop · 16/05/2017 09:46

blue spot on. I tried to describe to him how I just feel him as a big absence. Literally, being away. But when he comes back he's either escaping via wine (he'll often have been drinking on the plane back), or Crackberry, or just staring into the middle distance, never really listening.

He thinks it's just the geography. For me it's emotional.

OP posts:
barnet · 16/05/2017 09:58

No, no, no
He isn't going sailing. You go and have a day and night away by the sea. If he wants he can tell his friend that he is looking after the kids because you need to get your head round his sexting habits.

BluePeppers · 16/05/2017 09:59

Fwiw I've had similar issue wth DH, bar the incident with that woman, and DH did change.
I'm not saying it has been easy. Or that it didn't require some efforts on my part. But he didn't ,I've away from this 1950 thinking bac to the 21st century.
I believe one reason it worked is because, before we had children we did have a proper 50/50 relationship. Somitbwas more about going back tonhow things were than to create something new iyswim

stinkingbishop · 16/05/2017 11:33

blue I think that's part of the issue. We weren't even living together when I go pregnant with the DTDs. So, yes, we were theoretical equals, and certainly in the workplace, but that was never tested. And then I was on maternity leave...Some of it I blame roundly on his parents who are utterly 1950s. My DFIL does not a sausage and is very much paterfamilias requiring tea brought to him, despite having been retired for quarter of a century. Ironically DP has commented on it but then says 'ah well, it's just Dad, he won't change'.

OP posts:
Huskylover1 · 16/05/2017 11:36

So:

  1. You haven't had sex in 3 years (good grief)
  1. He was planning to shag another woman (so his reasons for not shagging were a lie)
  1. Only reason he didn't shag OW was because she cancelled.
  1. He's deceitful (able to sext OW, and look you in the eye)
  1. He quit his job because he hated it, NOT to spend more time with his family (has already planned activities that are not family orientated)
  1. He's lazy round the house.
  1. He's overweight.
  1. He's mean with money.
  1. He doesn't fancy you (believe me, if he did he would be sleeping with you)

Look, you're not even married. You have a house with no mortgage. It would be so easy to separate.

What would you advise your daughters to do, if they were in this "relationship"?

I think you'd advise them to cut their losses. Why do you not deserve the same consideration? Flowers

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