Other experiences of cheating/affairs please?

[Pinkyponk36]

Hello everybody, I have already posted about my situation before here so won't go into detail. And all the replies I received were basically saying the same thing: you've let your partner treat you like a mug, he is blatantly cheating, you should leave. (No one stood up for him).

To explain very briefly: been together 5 years, have had two kids over last 4 years of that, have always had gut instinct he's at the very least a flirt behind my back & big porn user, but have found out a bit of evidence here and there to back up theory but nothing 100% incriminating (I.e. That he has defo done sex chat and/physical cheating). At very start of relationship he admitted he had had girl in his hotel room, but nothing happened. Still maintains this but has been caught flirting with her over past few years and trying to arrange lunch with her (which he says never actually happened) and then other such bits of info come out in drips and drabs. I've said to him he must sort out counselling over next two weeks or I'm calling mediator to sort out break up and dividing our assets.

Basically please could other people who have been in similar situation give me a heads up of how liars operate? And how they found out the truth? Do people always find the smoking gun straight away, or does it come out slowly?

It's just he is so definite that nothing physical has happened, but he is letting some bits of truth out here and there, and when we talk he is so good at making me feel like he does love me, and that he is essentially a good person. And then I feel very confused and wonder if most of the problem is me, and he is just a bit of a stupid dick at times....

I just can't believe that he is lying through his teeth?? I need to hear about how others who have experienced people who have lied through their teeth, about how they actually finally discovered they were being properly lied to??

Like, am I a complete mug? Or am I an overreacting, insecure person?

Thanks Ellisandra. I don't think my partner is going to tell me all the truth. However, I'm just going to try counselling as a last attempt. But I haven't quite to that place of serious power, which you describe as your "moment of freedom", but hopefully I will get there.

What happened to you is really horrendous. Why do some people behave like this? I just don't get it.

Pinky - I wish mn had been around when I was in your shoes. Please keep posting

I posted a long reply on your previous thread, so I won't repeat myself.

So, here you are 6 months later, and he hasn't changed. Counselling won't change him.

You are clinging on to this relationship by your finger nails. You deserve to be with a man who is devoted to you, not one is is constantly flirting with other women.

I am agog that you have over looked the SWINGERS WEBSITES. Sorry for shouting, but come on....are you really ok with this? He is actively seeking out other women for sex (and men too/or the men watch uugh). I wouldn't want his dick anywhere near me after that.

Lawyer up. Get rid. And get every penny you can (see my previous post)

I'm sorry you're going through this, it totally sucks, but you deserve SO much better than this twat.

The thing is that a swingers' website is only for people looking for sex. He can explain away the girl in the hotel and all the other things but he can't explain away the fact that he went online to look for another person to have sex with.

You mention your children are wild - not sure if you're joking but one thing I found was that when I was desperately wondering what was going on in my marriage, my son's behaviour became worse - he wouldn't leave me alone and would repeat himself constantly. It drove me crazy. Once I knew what was going on, their behaviour improved and I realised that it was because I could actually give them the attention they needed.

Thanks ladies for taking the time to post on my thread. I'll work this stuff out. It will be ok. X

I don't think you'll ever get the full truth from him and if I'm honest OP, I think counselling with him would be pointless, he'd more than likely just say all the things he thinks you'd want to hear

You deserve more than to waste anymore time on him. Seek counselling for yourself

He won't change

Xx

My ex used his recently departed mother as a cover-up lie to explain why he was messaging his colleague; apparently they were talking about death and cancer.

Over time I got more and more convinced he was at least having an emotional affair. I tried talking straight to him, in a non-accusing, factual way; saying that it looked like an affair and did he want to break up. He denied it and said he didn't.

I found his email password and read all his emails. They weren't talking about death and cancer at all; they talked mainly about sex. They had been shagging for over a year, had gone on holidays abroad together (cover-up: business trips), he had invited her to a barbecue at our house as he found it really exciting to have her there in front of me and the kids, all unaware (she had the grace to decline).

Her husband had already found out about it and warned him off but they were back at it. I contacted her husband and he said he was just divorcing her.

I didn't want to admit straight away that I (still) had access to his emails, so I just admitted having talked to her husband. My husband denied it all: he said that her husband was just trying to cause trouble. I mentioned a few things they had done, but as if I didn't know for sure and was just guessing. He denied it more, saying "you don't know anything".

I did know it all, though, and it was weirdly fascinating. In the past he had suggested that it was all in my imagination and I had no evidence. Now he was saying the same thing, but this time I knew he was bluffing. Now I could see how he was just wriggling away from my accusations rather than actually proving them to be wrong. Telling me that OW's husband was trying to stir things up - which implicitly accepted the fact that there was an OW, that she had a husband, and that he felt a need to stir anything up. Telling me "You don't know anything" rather than "You have got it wrong".

Even when I later said that I'd read all his emails and knew everything, he never acknowledged any of it, just kept his mouth pursed. Never apologised for anything.

Hi OP - I'm watching your thread closely as I'm in a very similar position to yourself. Ie. Kidding myself that the bullshit my husband is telling me is true...probably because it is so much more appealing that what I know in my gut and my heart to be the actual truth.

I've been to counselling recently but until I decide to draw a line and wake up to reality it's a waste of time. I need to want to move on but can't. I think I can feel my spirit slowly dying slightly each day. But yet i still dont leave. I know I should do it for my children - yet I just cant seem to. I keep waiting for this moment of realisation when enough is finally enough but somehow I just manage to add the latest heartache to the pile and plod slowly on.

Sorry you're suffering like this too.

Thanks sparklymagpie and ravenmum. Wow, Ravenmum, all it takes is one little slip up from him to uncover such a can of worms ay? Your ex was such a deceptive individual. It's so scary to think one can be with someone like this, who seems really genuine and sincere but underneath is such a lying arse.

Martinamartini, do you feel comfortable telling me what types of things are happening for you? It's such a bloody hard situation to know if you are going crazy or if you are actually right, isn't it? At the very least I know my partner has lied to me, and has expressed interest in others sexually by signing up to swingers sites, although he swears that was just fantasy and nothing has ever come of it.

I hear the ladies here telling me counselling isn't going to work, and they are probably right, but I just want to try everything resource available before reaching the bitter end of ending it all.

Also, isn't it hard when you are also trying to look after kids and deal with this? Looking after children leaves me with barely any energy for anything, let alone thinking about how my partner might be/is a lying toad.

Martinamartini, don't let your spirit die. A man can be a dick, but he must not take any of our spirit. The only thing that keeps me going at the mo is doing an odd little thing here and there for myself, such as drawing and creative stuff and/or writing. I hope you also engage in something you enjoy so that you can get away mentally from this shit.
Hugs!

People tend to only admit to what they think/know the other person knows. He's telling you the least hurtful bits but in truth if you're in a hotel room with someone, then nothing is going to stop you from going further and further. It takes a while to get to that first kiss/touch but once that threshold is reached, there is no holding back on further physical stuff, in fact it's probably easier.

He's not going to incriminate himself any further if he has no need to, so either the situation carries on as is or someone (you) makes a change. He will carry on cheating if he knows he has you to come back to.

Personally I would say if you want therapy, go for it. It may help you to see if you still want to fight for something that is clearly not a healthy relationship.

I would suggest having a listen to Dear Sugar podcast, they have a 3 part podcast on Infidelity, from the betrayer's perspective, and from the betrayed. that might provide you some insight -
www.wbur.org/dearsugar

The porn addiction is also messing with his mind too, he obviously has lots of issues and he needs to deal with them in a positive healthy way rather than cheating and getting off on the internet.

It's a long complicated back story.

I'd say definitely give counselling a go, for yourself. I found it helped me greatly initially when we had separated. You need to find one you click with though. Mine is fab. Helped me start to understand that he is a narcissist and that it is an EA relationship. However, the pull of believing his promises was too strong and as a result I have relented and we have reconciled.

He's on his best behaviour and things are (temporarily) better than they have been for years. However, I cannot 'un-know' the things I've discovered, despite his lies and pathetic explanations.

I just don't think I'm ready to let go of him yet. I am focussing too much on the thought of him being with someone else and seeing him as the 'prize' still.

I find I'm losing interest in things I usually enjoy and am unintentionally withdrawing from friends and family - through embarrassment I think of what I've told them but yet am still accepting.

I don't know if I'm just waiting for things to flare up again and then have another try at going it alone.

What are your reasons for staying given what you know?

Thanks oscareyeballs, that is very useful. I'll defo have a look at that website. You are totally right about the first kiss being the threshold and it all getting easier from there. Given that he was totally pissed at the time something must have happened!

Martinamartini, yes I think my partner is also a narcissist. There are countless other little things that he has said and/or done that points towards this. And his mother is a total narcissist.

Don't withdraw! The world and your kids need you. And you need yourself. I totally get what you say when you say you feel a bit embaressed from things you may have said. I also have had this feeling. I think everyone experiences that when they disclose personal stuff to others. Don't let that put you off seeing friends.

I too withdrew recently, but then I started to force myself to see friends and do stuff and it really has made me feel better. Although, I'm still in this predicament, but it's all about small steps.

Reasons for me staying:

• still have a slight hope that the reality is not as bad as it would appear I.e. He hasn't done more than emotional cheating and stupid internet fantasy stuff
• In other areas I feel such a strong connection with him, however, I'm aware that this could all be not real and it could be his narcissistic charm manipulating me to feel this way
• want to be as certain as I can before possibility of breaking up the home we have built for the kids
• have had such a crappy life in parts which makes me unable to make certain decisions when someone wrongs me....

How's it going now you are back with him?

OP I used to work in the Courts. Some people have the ability to lie very convincingly, because they have no conscience and they believe their own lies/version of their truth. They will even swear on oath, when you have documentary or physical evidence of the lies.
Stop trying to work out if he is lying, you are clearly most unhappy, when you have decided that you have had enough, you will get rid.
You obviously haven't had enough yet!

Your reasons are very similar to mine. I too feel drawn to him still. Our long history together. I still fancy him. Plus he is my husband and father of my children. All my dreams I've invested in the life we've made together. That aside, i know that i am often so miserable so things are not wonderful or okay else I wouldn't feel this way.

I stopped counselling as I found I would get myself in such an emotional state knowing I needed to talk through my feelings again but knowing deep down that I just can't walk away from him. I'm aware that it is all so black and white for those around me who think he is a complete c bomb and are no longer under his narcissistic spell. I don't think that has lifted for me yet. I think I'm just so in love with the fantasy of him that I won't accept reality. My mum told me even if I actually caught him shagging someone he'd still deny and say he tripped and fell. She's probably right. Reality hurts more than burying my head in the sand I guess. So here I am.

As PP said, we obviously haven't had enough yet. I worry if it'll take me to actually have a complete nervous breakdown for me to get to that point.

Sorry, I missed your question - things have been great since we got back together. Better than ever infact.

But yet there is a feeling of falseness that I cannot shift. Like we are putting on a show. The years of emotional abuse, lies, let downs and disappointments and the complete lack of trust cannot be erased so I'm effectively living a half life. I'm constantly battling to subside my thoughts and questions about what he has done but won't admit to. One day I fear I will explode and yet I can't seem to step out of it.

Martinamartini, I am totally in a similar position to you I think. We are both under a spell, but can actually gave awareness of this, but somehow not the power to make the big break.

Do you think he is being honest with you now? Do you think he has.......changed??

HazelBite, yes I know there are some real conscienceless people out there. I'm struggling to reconcile that my partner is one of these.... But you are right, perhaps more will occur and I may see that he is, and I'll reach my ultimate fedupness. How do you know if you are with an actual sociopath....?!

Guys is it actually the norm in our Western culture for heterosexual men to behave in this way....?

I know some very trustworthy lovely men who are partners to my close friends but I have a feeling these types of men are few and far between??

I don't think he is being honest. I just cannot prove otherwise. He has told me nothing more than I have discovered myself and been banged to rights for. I have gained the occasional insight or morsel of info if he's slipped up after a few drinks. He has literally shut up shop on that front when I confront him. He's got his story and he's sticking to it.

He seems to have changed atm. Time will tell. When his mates want to go out and the urge to resist is too string. Or if I give him reason to be pissed off etc. Pathetic that I need things to erupt before I can gather strength to action something.

I think you hit the nail on the head about the difficulty in reconciling that I am married to a sociopath/ narcissist. And all the horrible things he does are the same person as the gorgeous man who is going to walk through the door soon and kiss me and the kids and ask how my day has been.

PP if you met my husband you would think he is funny, charming, kind, everything a doting husband and father should be - in public. Just like I did and why I fell under his spell and why I married him and had children with him. Despite the warning flags being there but could always be explained away.

I don't think narcissism is solely a western thing.

Maybe we're just attracted to the wrong kind of men?

Martinamartini, have you unearthed dodgy texts and emails previously, or do you just go on your gut feeling and notice changes in his behaviour? I'm just wondering what might be some of the things that make you think he is a narcissistic player... Are they similar things to what I have found and sensed?

I totally get you on the split between him being such a charmer and lovely and gorgeous in public, and then acting like a sneaky, shitty ahole at other times. I totally saw warning signs early on but thought I was wrong, maybe I was too judgemental, give second chance etc.

I also think yes, I must be attracted to the wrong men, for sure. Well after this one, if it does come to that, I'm bloody off men I tell you.

So, if it's not solely western, it's just worldwide then. Hey ho, what fun. The world is full of sociopaths.

It's a collection of things I've found....dodgy texts about meet ups, his account of where he's been not tying up with where his phone say he actually was; staying in hotels regularly, picking arguments to justify him going out; taking drugs; drinking excessively and drink driving. And then lying about all of it!! Plus completely taking me and the kids for granted and treated us like shit to bebhonest until this recent split....blimey ...writing that makes me wonder why I am still here! It's the Jekyl and Hyde....

Maybe western men have the privilege and opportunity to indulge themselves. Other cultures may not have that luxury I guess. I'm sure you get self centred selfish shits worldwide, along with kind decent souls out there too.

I cannot imagine being with anyone else though. But I cannot see a happy ever after for us anymore either without trust.

Can you see yourself happy with him in a year's time?

Plus found lots of open porn on his phone too. He changed his email address and account the same day he pretended to be being transparent by giving me the pin to his phone. Which I previously hadn't been privy to for months.

^ typo...should just be porn. Thanks autocorrect!

Guys is it actually the norm in our Western culture for heterosexual men to behave in this way....?

No.

Your H is a cheat. Western culture has nothing to do with it. Entitlement has everything to do with it.

Wow Martinamartini, that is some awful stuff you've uncovered. I was thinking is my stuff better or worse than that, and I think equally as bad but in a different way. When I actually remind myself of all the stuff I too think 'hand on a second...I'm still with him because....?'

It must be the biological attraction and expert devious manipulative charm of these guys. Because I'm not stupid and I'm sure you aren't.

Thanks also AyeAmarok, it is nice to hear a clear, definitive answer on that one.

Martinamartini I feel for you.

Can I see myself happy in a years time....? Well, basically, if this counselling does bollocks all, I am just going to force myself to finish it regardless of my emotional pull to him. I'm just going to pretend I'm my own mother and 'rescue' myself, if necessary.

So in a year I'll either be with a changed relationship and same but newer minded man, I.e. We'll start over again and he will work on himself, or, I'll be a single mother with two kiddos trying to scrape a living. But I saw my mum do that and so I know it can be done and your kids still have lovely, rich parts to their life. And TBH I'll probably be happier as the latter cos things will be on my terms.

How about you Martinamartini?