Anyone think the expression narc is overused here

[yetmorecrap]

I do appreciate that some people clearly are but i personally think it gets used a lot as well to describe partners or parents who are just not nice, abusive , a total twat or just plain rude which I think can undermine the cases where they clearly 'are' narcisstic.

Someone was telling me that their SIL had had failed Botox that went wrong so badly her face looked melted, I described botox as 'a kind of narcissism that I will never understand'.

I don't think anyone would reasonably think I was thinking or saying her SIL had NPD!

And if you want to get really deep into it narcissus was mythically so obsessed by his physical beauty as reflected to him that he starved to death. NPD is much much more than simple vanity in your appearance so perhaps it is slightly inappropriate to reference narcissus is what is a bit off...

Yes, I used to have a friend who told me he liked having sex in front of a mirror because he was admiring his own looks! But that was also self aware as well as narcissistic.

I don't get uppity when people say they feel anxious just because I have been diagnosed with an anxiety disorder. There is a clue there in the word disorder that shows you how it is different from anxiety as a feeling.

I do and don't quite agree Offred. Anyone can be a bit neurotic, or a bit hysterical at times, for example. Haven't we all? Sometimes more than once . But to call someone a Narcissist or a Narc to me is a kind of serious thing. I once had a friend who told me she went out with a Psychopath once. Really, I thought, MG! It turns out she didn't mean an actual "psychopath" just someone who was a bit horrible to her.

But you see psychopath is more of a lay person's term these days. Is different to narcissism which predates NPD entirely and is actually what NPD was named after but technically psychopathy/sociopathy are descriptive and ASPD and DPD are the disorders.

Totally agree with alembec, after years of abuse you go looking for answers and then learn what narcissism is, then the penny drops. If you live with one, you are in doubt after having researched their traits.

The only thing that bothers me is when people say things like 'I am a bit OCD' because they like a clean house. And even then I am only a bit miffed and only because I am genuinely 'a bit' OCD (diagnosed) in that I have OCD but not severely and it is horrendous and not at all like wanting a clean house.

And I understand that being 'a bit OCD' is said like a lot of people say 'I am sooooooo depressed', they aren't trying to piss people with OCD/depression off, just expressing their feelings clumsily.

What alembec and you (tadopole) are referring to are people who are abusive.

One of my issues with the overuse of 'narcissistic' is that it's commonly applied to abusive men and women on here.

Narcissism simply indicates extreme self-centredness and selfishness.
It has nothing to say about abuse. Nor does narcissism cause abuse. Being abusive is much worse than being narcissistic.

Offred - it seems to me you thought your ex had a personality disorder and you were right. But how many people on here who are described online as having NPD actually have a personality disorder at all. I think your example is rare.

But my whole point was that saying someone or someone's behaviour is 'narcissistic' is NOT saying they have NPD.

XP's behaviour was often narcissistic, he was diagnosed with BPD long after he left me. Recent XBF's behaviour was also often narcissistic, if I he was dx ASD in a few years I wouldn't be surprised.

Narcissistic behaviour is often nothing whatsoever to do with NPD.

Narcissism is actually a normal developmental stage. NPD describes a pathological personality disorder which has a substantial and long term negative effect on the person's life.

Narcissism is actually a normal developmental stage

I absolutely do not agree with that theory either, though that theory, that it is arrested childhood development, is very popular and common. For me, it is not a normal stage of childhood, and if you read the signs of a Narcissist, most children DO NOT go display all those criteria. I have never met a child who filled the Narcissist criteria that I witnessed with said Narcissist. Never.

Well, narcissistic is used to describe a particular stage of ego development (I think perfectly accurately as like with NPD it is drawing on the narcissus myth). I'm not talking about arrested development BTW or childhood factors which risk adult NPD. Just making a distinction between different uses of the word and the different contexts that they are validly used in.

I'm surprised you say it has a negative effect on the person's life, Offred. I thought the main reason it's rarely diagnosed is that the person who has it never considers anything is wrong with them - it's the people around them that have all the problems...

The person themselves may not see that the reason they are having problems is their NPD but they may well feel deep distress about their lives, just not insight into the real cause of it.

There is some unconventional thinking that NPD may be part of the AS. I'm not sure about that but I can see where they are coming from re theory of mind.

But my whole point was that saying someone or someone's behaviour is 'narcissistic' is NOT saying they have NPD.

I understood that and thought it was self-evident, does it really need futher comment?

My point, as you know, was that people described on here as narcissistic are often actually abusive. Having said that, there are times when narcissistic and NPD seem to be used interchangeably without real understanding of the difference between the two.

XP's behaviour was often narcissistic, he was diagnosed with BPD long after he left me.

I don't dispute that he was narcissistic. But I think it's instructive that even though though he was narcissistic and eventually turned out to have a personality disorder, he still didn't have NPD.

Well yes, so do I. I'm struggling to understand what point you are trying to make really.

A person's behaviour can be validly described as narcissistic with or without them being diagnosed/diagnosable with NPD (or another PD) IMO. I base that opinion on the fact that NPD's name is drawn from the narcissus myth which describes excessive admiration for one's own physical beauty and which has existed for thousands of years without NPD even being recognised.

Narcissus is not necessarily a good example of NPD IMO either - as NPD also concerns a long term pattern of negative relationship behaviour and other things to do with status rather than just preoccupation with physical beauty.

I'm not sure why narcissistic abusive behaviour should just be called 'abusive' rather than narcissistic which in itself adds a further descriptive element which people have confirmed on this thread has helped them understand their relationship.

Really, when it comes down to it abusive or narcissistic the only answer is to leave but naming behaviour can help people see the importance of leaving.

Whenever is see 'narcissism' I don't think someone means to say 'I believe this person should be diagnosed with NPD'. And I think it is a bit unreasonable to believe that the only appropriate way to use 'narcissist' is in relation to people who have been diagnosed with NPD.

You seem to have got completely the wrong end of the stick.

I do not disagree that there are people who are genuinely narcissistic, who do not have NPD. I've said this already so I'm not sure why we're going over it again.

But what I have also said is that people who are narcissistic are also labelled 'NPD' incorrrectly, imo. So it's not, as you have understood it, that I'm saying that people who call someone narcissistic really mean they have NPD. But the opposite - that people who label someone as NPD often just mean narcissistic.

I didn't say anything about 'narcissistic abusers' I simply said that people on here sometimes label men and women narcissistic when actually they're abusive. In that case 'abusive' should be the primary label.

It's important that they are labelled correctly, because it's much more clear cut that you should leave an abuser. And if police or medical professionals or SS have to be involved, telling them someone is a 'narc' won't mean anything.

Ah ok, I get you. It was because what the OP was talking about was the use of the word 'narcissistic' rather than people labelling people as NPD at home or over the internet. I agree only professionals can diagnose NPD, obviously, but then I haven't really ever seen anyone on her call someone NPD, probably has happened though.

I don't know - the abuse label seemed a bit of a stretch with my then H. There was so much about it that didn't fit. Because really what was so destructive was the fact that he never saw me for me. When I started reading about narcissism (or NPD, not sure which) it was a revelation. Somebody actually understood what my life was like!

I think the issue comes down to whether a poster says "x is a narcissist" implying NPD or "x has narcissistic behaviours"