I'm becoming increasingly sure that I don't want to see my parents anymore..but I don't know what to do about my DC having contact with them. Please help

[tideishighbutimholdingon]

Hi,

I've been in therapy for a while which has caused me to finally understand my relationship with my parents, which has always been fraught.

To sum up, they were emotionally neglectful in the extreme, did not set boundaries to help keep me safe or teach me how to look after myself. I was abused for years, which they claim not to have noticed.

Having finally brought all of this out into the open with them they have told me to just concentrate on the good stuff.

But I can't, at the moment, because I am still right in the middle of processing the bad stuff. They know that this includes sexual abuse. I don't want to see them at the moment. Now they are asking for unsupervised contact with my DC.

My DC do get along with them and miss them. They don't live nearby so don't see them that often. I, personally, am really struggling with any kind of contact with my parents.

They simply do not seem to understand that there was anything lacking in how they brought me up, they do not understand the impact of abuse (despite me explaining this), they just want us to pretend that nothing happened and it was all normal.

They actually scare me. I'm scared of them, because they have no understanding of what a meaningful emotional relationship is, and yet they seem to demand it of me.

They can be extremely forceful and it wouldn't surprise me if they tried to force access to my DC via the courts...my gut instinct is obviously to fight this, but the DC want to have a relationship with them and I don't consider them a danger to my DC..I'm wondering if some kind of supervised contact might be the best way to go?

I don't know. I'm a mess right now...I can't believe that they are issuing requests to see my DC when I am right in the middle of trying to deal with the fallout from my childhood.

I don't know what to do.

(sorry I should say that the abuse happened under their roof and went on for years - physical and sexual, so I am at a loss as to how the could have been completely unaware of it)

They don't automatically have any rights to see them. If your relationship is that bad then why would you want the children to see them? If there is a third party who could supervise a visit, then maybe do that occasionally, but look after your mental health first.

This is the confusion thebooks....My gut instinct is that I really don't want them around my children, yet I'm caught up in feeling obliged to do that.

I've sent them an email just saying that my priority right now is to recover from things and not to ask for contact at the present time.

Taking into account how many truly fucking awful feelings you are dealing with right now why would you risk your dc to experience a single bad one at the hands of your dp? They had no qualms about your physical and mental well being - why give them the slightest opportunity to abuse your dc? They were shit parents and are just as capable of being shit gps. .
Your dc aren't old enough to see that. . You need to decide what's best for them. . . Do it and keep them the hell away. .

Are you seeing a therapist currently; if not I would see such a person asap and one who is highly versed in the ways of toxic dysfunctional families as well. You need to find someone who importantly has no bias about keeping families together. BACP are good and do not charge the earth.

They were abusive to you as a child and remain so. They did nothing about you being abused and are riding roughshod over any boundary you care to set them now. Such toxic people never apologise or accept any responsibility for their actions. By telling you simply to concentrate on the good stuff they have abdicated all responsibility for their actions. Their behaviours and responses for abusers is pretty much how these disordered people do actually operate.

If they were not good parents to you the best thing you can do for your children is to keep them well away from people like your parents. Toxic parents more often than not make for being toxic grandparent figures too. They could well use your children in turn to get back at you; do not allow this to happen!. A generation i.e. you has already been profoundly affected; do not let the next be as affected as well.

How do you know that they miss them or want a relationship with them, do they tell you this often or are you making assumptions about all of this (along the lines of societial convention)?. After all your children do not see them that often anyway due to distance. This is a good thing, you need to protect them from bad things.

How old are your children? Have you told them age appropriate truth about their grandparents?. Its not up to them here because they do not have enough emotional maturity here and will not recognise that they are being manipulated by their grandparents. It will do them no favours at all for them to keep on seeing you as their mother being so disrespected. I would consider your children to be at great risk of emotional harm from their grandparents also because of their demands now towards you as their mother, they are at risk.

Grandparents in the UK have no automatic rights of access to their grandchildren either. I would not give your parents supervised contact, you need to be in a no contact position with these people.

Do read Toxic Parents written by Susan Forward if you have not already done so and post too on the "well we took you to Stately Homes" thread on these pages.

Hi tideishigh,

re your comment:-
"I've sent them an email just saying that my priority right now is to recover from things and not to ask for contact at the present time"

Do not send them any more e-mails. You've contacted them before and its done no good. The above will likely be a red rag to a bull to them and they will likely now go on the defensive and attack you viciously verbally. I would now block their e-mail address and all other ways of them communicating with you; nothing good will come from reading their toxic replies. They are not going to ever say sorry or apologise for their actions; that much is already clear.

Thank you everyone.

I am still in therapy and am very happy with my therapist, who is not at all biased either towards or against me keeping contact with them so I feel happy and safe to explore both options in therapy.

I have mostly been focusing on dealing with trauma, lately, hence the way forward with my parents not being clear.

My DC are 7 and 9 - the youngest said yesterday that she missed them. She last saw them at Christmas, but this is the first time she has mentioned missing them.

I have read Toxic Parents.

My therapist agrees that my mother has narcissistic traits at the very least (I could write a book on her alone).

I would also contact NAPAC if you have not already done so as well.

website:- napac.org.uk/

My DC are 7 and 9 - the youngest said yesterday that she missed them. She last saw them at Christmas, but this is the first time she has mentioned missing them.

Young children are not known for their long attention spans. This works in your favor. With younger children you have the advantage of distraction. It is easy enough to get the child's mind off onto another track. Every parent has done the distraction routine at one time or another. "Mommy, I want to see NastyGran today!" "Honey, we aren't going to see NastyGran today because we get to go to the park and eat ice cream." (Make up fun time on the spot if necessary for this distraction.) "Yay!!" says the kid and off we go. Subject changed, kid distracted. In time, NastyGran will fade from memory. Any bonding that may have occurred will dissipate in the process of time.

You will find that the children will eventually stop mentioning the loss of the narcissist grandparent if you are not bringing it up. If you are talking about your Nparent in the hearing of your children then you are inviting them to keep talking about it, too. I can not over-emphasize the need for your explanation to a younger child to be calm, pragmatic, measured and short. Long explanations make you look defensive which will tend to peak the interest of the child and prompt him to push the issue. You can gauge what is appropriate information depending on the age of the child. If the child is older and has experienced or witnessed the Ngrandparent's nastiness in action then you can say more.

Remember, you are the parent. You're older and therefore more experienced which is the point of being the parent. The child is dependent on your good sense and protective wisdom. You're smarter than your child; use that to your advantage (such as using the distraction method). You are the final authority. This is not a negotiable issue. Your children do not get to decide on this one because they lack the understanding, wisdom, experience and good sense that, hopefully, you have. So don't look like you're unsure or open to quibble. You'll undermine yourself if you look anything but firm and resolved on it. Use your advantages as parent to smooth the effects of the cut-off. Over time this will all quiet down. Kids tend to accept what is. It will happen more quickly if you follow the above advice.

Most of all, do not operate from a fearful mindset. Don't be afraid of your children's possible, or actual, reactions. Don't be afraid that you are depriving them of something important by cutting off a set of grandparents. You are only "depriving" them of bad things. Reassure yourself with that truth. Family is not everything. Blood is not binding. You are escaping the Mob Family. What should connect us is how we treat each other with love and respect. This is always a good lesson to teach our little ones. If any part of you is unsure of your decision then, for Pete's sake, don't show it. Your resoluteness will go a long way toward reassuring your children that you are acting in everyone's best interest. If your children know that you love them, they are going to feel reassured that this decision is also based in your love for them. They will find an added sense of security to know that you, as their parent, are willing to protect them even at the cost of your relationship with your own parent(s). Rather than being fearful, see the plentiful opportunities in this. You are protecting your children from someone whom you've experienced as being abusive; you are reassuring your children that you are in charge and are watchful for their best interests (creates deep sense of security); you can teach healthy family values which include that family doesn't get a pass for abusive behavior; you can strengthen and reinforce the healthy relationships in your extended family. Kids are less likely to feel like there is a void in their life if you fill it with good things.

Cutting off from your narcissist parent is a good thing. No need to act otherwise. Your children will sense it is a good thing by how you behave. Model how you want them to respond and it is likely they will imitate. Don't be afraid of their questions. Kids are amazingly resilient and well-equipped to handle truth. Parents are supposed to protect their progeny. If your child doesn't agree with how you go about that don't worry. They will often disagree with your decisions for their best interests. Nothing new there. It is your job as parent to make the tough decisions. If you know it is the right decision then proceed with confidence. Showing confidence is a quality of leadership. As a parent you are supposed to be a leader. Lead...and they will likely follow.

Your children are relying on your good judgment here; I would urge you most strongly to keep your kids well away from them. Does your therapist know much about the machinations of narcissistic family structures? Am glad to read that you are happy with your therapist but I would still keep your children well away from your parents all the same. Infact your parents are not worthy of the term, they are not fit to clean your shoes.

Your children really should not see either of your grandparents at all given their abuses of you from childhood. Also your mother is a narcissist and they in particular make for being deplorably bad grandparent figures. Those people tend to either over value or under value the relationship with the grandchildren whom they really regard as narcissistic supply. She will use them to get back at you; she has more time and money to throw at them and will attempt to buy their affections.

Thanks Attila.

My mother definitely overvalues the relationship with them, and that's another source of guilt...I wasn't close to any of my grandparents and it's never been an issue for me, so it's interesting that the loving grandparent card is played so easily by her.

My therapist is very good and I trust them to help me navigate this part. He has a good understanding of narcissim and enablers.

I never realised until this week how much they scare me. I have spent years resenting them, but it's only this week that I've understood that underneath all of the anger I hold towards them is this fear of them, because they don't behave like normal people.

I'm sure they could fade away for my DC, it would be ok..

Like many adult children of such toxic people you are still very much in a FOG state with regards to your parents. FOG is an acronym for fear, obligation and guilt. They made you feel like this and they have no guilt whatsoever for making you feel like that as well.

Over valuing or under valuing the relationship with the grandchildren is a typical narc tactic which I have already mentioned. Your mother is simply playing a game to use your children to get back at you. Her actions are NOT loving ones towards your children; they are a really good source of narcissistic supply to her.

Do discuss all the above further with your therapist.

I strongly urge you to keep you and they well away from your parents and strongly resist all their demands for contact. Please don’t feel powerless, that is part of her game. Abusive manipulative people work in ways which always leave victims feeling they are stuck. You are not stuck. You are the parent and you have enormous untapped power there. She really is nothing, has nothing to offer your child that you can’t give in droves. Narcissists are emotionally bankrupt, their pot of giving is empty expect for false promises and material treats. The goal is to untangle your child before they realise this several years down the road and are hurt by it. The most damaging thing you can do in this situation is nothing, then you are betraying your child. You must protect your child from the harm being caused by an emotionally and psychologically damaging narcissist even if the child screams, cries, pleads, begs, blames and hates you in the short term.

I was nc with my dm for ten years.
I gave her another chance when dc came along. Regretted it within a fortnight. Stuck it out for a year then cut contact again. Told the dc sometimes people aren't who you think they are etc. .
They accepted my decision as they respect me and my decisions. .
Fast forward 5 years and they aren't suffering by not having any gps. ..
Can't say the same if she was still around. .

Thank you attila. I am definitely still in the middle of FOG, but getting better. It is all so complicated..

I grew up in a very textbook golden child-older brother / scapegoat-younger sister scenario. My brother watched how my mother treated me and put his own, aggresive, male spin on it. I believe.

Justmade ,thanks for sharing that, food for thought..

OP I am so sorry that you are going through this. My own story is very similar to yours (abuse known about by parents; siblings who make excuses etc)

I've been NC with my narcissistic DM for 13 years now. Contact always had to be on her terms only both with myself before I became a mum and afterwards with my DCs.

She had 3 episodes of contact with eldest DC (before I went NC) and showed little interest. She showed even less when DC2 was born (has never even met him nor even seen a photograph). I went NC to protect myself from further hurt and have actively sought to protect my DC from her too. For example, DSis has previously asked if she could share photos/stories about my DCs with her and I refused. DM sends cards and money for DCs via DSis. I ask DSis to donate cash to NSPCC and DM won't accept its return.

My DCs are now 16 and 13. I have spoken as openly as I feel is right with them about my DM. No detail - just to say that she was not a good person and so I would prefer them not to have contact. Eldest DC is getting to an age where he might want to investigate that relationship for himself and I'm not sure how I feel about that tbh. I can hope he won't but I can't actually forbid it.

Thank you buggery and sorry to hear your story, too.

I thought that I wanted to establish low-contact with very set boundaries. e.g. occasional days out on neutral territory. But that will be difficult as a precedent has been set for spending time with them.

I have cptsd from the abuse, which I'm doing really well at working through. But just speaking to my parents ( let alone seeing them) is re-traumatising for me.

They are very difficult, because they should platitudes like "WE LOVE YOU" and "WE ARE HERE FOR YOU". But there is nothing underneath it - no self-reflection on their parenting, there have never been any displays of genuine love, they just give money instead.

I'm so tired of this.

My older brother is mentally ill, and I've always had to be the cover story for what was wrong with him.

So, although he was the golden child growing up, since he got ill in his late teens there's always been all of this pressure on me to conform and be the normal one who never has a problem and produce g/c to make them look good etc.

And a lot of expectation to present this normal/adoring relationship for the benefit of outside eyes.

The problem is, that's just pretending.

Sorry Op to hear about tryout childhood.

If you are saying that your parents were aware of abuse (physical and sexual) then of course they can't see your DC - in fact Social Services would have grave concerns if you allowed that knowing that.

No contact and I would sever ties.

Good luck

Thank you mainly.

They say they didn't know. Which I find strange, since family friend's had witnessed some very aggressive behaviour.

But they are sticking to not knowing.

It's very easy to demonise parents. Especially parents who got a lot disastrously wrong. You've had some very long and powerful posts on your thread to that effect, reflecting what happened to someone else. Not necessarily to you.

Each case, although there are similarities, is different. It is necessary for you to work through the trauma of what you experienced as a child - you're in the middle of that now. Testing times, very destabilising, and frightening, ime. But you have a therapist, thank goodness, to 'hold' you as you work through this very difficult terrain.

Keep going. It is a process and it takes time. You can wonder if you'll ever get through to some normalcy, but you do, eventually.

Ime working through this process, I worked through the fear, the rage, and finally to acceptance of them as very damaged, therefore damaging, people. This took a very long time, I'm not suggesting it happened overnight. During it I had varying levels of contact with my parents, never quite nc, tho not far off.

I got beyond the fear and the demonising and could finally, with general therapeutic support, accept them for who they are. That they love me in their hopelessly disordered way and did the best they could with what they had.

This is my experience, it isn't everybody's. I am not comfortable with blanket statements about abusive parents bcs each case is different eg if there was active and sustained abuse then nc really is the only healthy option for our mh and recovery. Imo a minority fall into the latter category, the majority are like my parents who made awful and dreadful mistakes that have had far -reaching implications for me.

No they won't be able, as my parents are not able, to face, or understand, what they did, largely bcs 1. They don't have the emotional intelligence to recognise the themes our generation is so well-versed in and 2. They would have to face their own damage. For people brought up in a different generation this can seem, and is?, impossible.

So it's up to us to accept their howling emotional poverty and find ways to survive it. Ime my kids saw and had a relationship with my parents. This has had good and bad results re my parents are not actively malevolent but damaging by default. They love my kids and do the best they can, however deficient I consider that to have been. If you are currently afraid of your parents then iiwy I'd hold off contact between then and your kids for now - perhaps some phonecalls or letters/cards for now rather than f2f contact. See how you are in, say, a years time?

Re sexual abuse in the home. This, perhaps by its nature, can fly under the radar. It is silent. Even the most switched on parent can not detect it.

Thanks Springydaffs..therein lies the problem. At my core I want to accept them for who they are - to focus on what they can do instead of what they can't.

At the moment it's impossible because I'm still working through the trauma, but yes, this is I guess what I'm holding out for:

"Once I got beyond the fear and the demonising and could finally, with general therapeutic support, accept them for who they are. That they love me in their hopelessly disordered way and did the best they could with what they had. "

It wasn't just sexual abuse, it was physical as well and I remember some of that happening in front of them and not being stopped.

They knew my brother was out of control, but they didn't know how to deal with it so pretended it wasn't happening. It is their default position to pretend that stuff isn't happening.

I will see how I get on with a period of no contact...I just need a safe space to concentrate on therapy, getting better and my own family without having to deal with their demands.

It is their default position to pretend that stuff isn't happening.

Snap

tideishigh,

re your comment:-
"They knew my brother was out of control, but they didn't know how to deal with it so pretended it wasn't happening. It is their default position to pretend that stuff isn't happening"

Indeed and your parents still don't so revert to type and what they've known. Same happened in my DHs family as well.

Its not your fault your parents are the ways they are; you did not make them that way. Their own families of origin did that lot of damage to them.