DM wants to stage intervention with alcoholic(?) DIL

[littleshoutymouse]

I'll try make this as concise as possible but it's still going to be long...

I posted recently about going NC with my dad, who had taken some money from my brother via their joint business account, just before my brother's baby arrived. Brother found out around the time the baby was born. This has forced my brother to seek new employment elsewhere while finishing up a few contracts for the old company that he felt duty bound to complete before leaving my dad to his own devices re. the business they co-owned. He's been very busy - working extremely long hours to make ends meet and says to me he feels like he hasn't really spent any time with his new baby.

SIL has apparently always been surrounded by alcoholism - her mum and her sister are, according to my DM, both alcoholics. Since the birth of the baby, she too has turned to the bottle, it seems. I had a very slurred phone call from her the other night telling me she wishes my toxic DF would die (she is entitled to her opinion in that respect as DF is a knob so I wasn't upset by the content of the call - more worried about the fact she was clearly steaming drunk with a 4mo in the house). DB was with her, sober, but I understand they had been arguing.

My mum (divorced from my dad now) rang me last night as she is worried about her grandchild, and wants to 'hold a family conference with SIL, brother and SIL's family' to discuss the child's safety, the alcohol problems and SIL and DB's relationship - basically she wants to stage an intervention. She is actively encouraging my brother to leave SIL as she is worried he will become depressed and 'hurt himself' (he's not said anything to indicate he feels this way). DB was apparently planning to leave her, up until she announced the pregnancy. As far as I can see, DB can't afford to leave and rent elsewhere, and it would leave the baby in a house with an alcoholic mother. I would much rather DB stayed to ensure baby is safe when the drinking starts.

Having recently had a baby myself, my suspicion is that a combination of PND, sleep deprivation, the financial stress of DB temporally loosing his income, effectively having to act as a single mother due to the circumstances around the baby's birth (DB working long hours) and a past rooted in alcoholism is what has triggered SIL's drinking - therefore I think the honourable thing for my DB to do is to stay, to help his partner and support her through this. Or at least to try (DM does not think he has not sought any professional advice or help for her and is worried doing so would trigger SS involvement).

DM disagrees and thinks DB should leave SIL and feels we can 'manage the situation as a family' and 'pull together'. She thinks SIL will take kindly to being sat down by her MIL and told she needs help, needs to allow DB to leave her and that she shouldn't look after the child - I strongly disagree and think it would kick off. My feeling is that if DM feels the child is at any risk then social services need to become involved, but otherwise her role at present should be to council my brother how best to help his partner and help him research places to find advice and support for them as a family. I feel DM would just be seen as meddling if she stages her 'intervention' and it won't help anyone.

Am I on the right track? I have no experience with alcoholism, neither does DM. I suspect DM just wants to look out for her grandchild and her son, but I can't help but feel my SIL's needs are not being addressed. She needs some compassion and support, surely?

I'm just not sure we are the ones to do that at this point, I think DB needs be instrumental in organising help for her, and I don't see why we can't support him in that respect. Obviously if that doesn't work or there is reason to suggest social services need to be informed, then I feel that is the best way forward.

So I suppose my question is - WWYD?

Poor poor woman! Your DM wants to sit her down and tell her that she should let her partner leave her with her child!!!!!'

That is unforgivable.-

But to those saying to keep out of it I would say that she sounds like she needs support! One drunken phone call does not make an alcoholic - it does say that someone needs some support though. She is maybe suffering from PND and I really hope her GP and HV are already aware and maybe supporting her. I think you could be offering friendship and support without being 'meddling'. I have certainly offered this to family members and speaking to someone or in their immediate circle has provided a small amount of support, even if it's to validate the persons feelings and allow them to see a little moment of perspective

M

Also can I say I have worked with many children from addictive homes.
Only if their are any signs of neglect or distress etc would anything be reported.
I once got blind drunk at a party but luckily have managed to work at a high level and bring up two little ones.
Your MIL is being judgemental instead of compassionate.
Intervention? Who do you think you are?
Makes me very angry.

I really appreciate every single reply, thank you all. I do actually agree with you all to an extent - across the various view points. I will speak to DM again tonight and see where her head is. My gut feeling is that support for DB to make up his own mind, with some subtle monitoring of the situation (for the child's sake) is the best way forward here. Obviously, if it becomes clear more decisive action needs to be taken then we can cross that bridge at the time, with all of your advice on board as above.

I will see if perhaps DM can let DB know that I am aware of the issues (as he has voiced some of them to be before, just in less detail), and if he is agreeable, I will offer my support to him. It's important that he knows I am here for him, I just need to make him aware in the right way, I think.

Thank you, genuinely.

There are thousands of addicts with children in their care.

I know, I've worked with them.

It's not simply about neglect as posters have claimed, it is also about safeguarding.

Each individual situation is different - if the primary carer was the sober partner, if the child was in its teens - it would be very different.

The info from the OP is that a) DB is working very long hours thus DIL is the primary carer and b) he is considering leaving her - in which case DIL would be in sole charge of a 4 month year old.

A 4 month year old in sole care of an alcoholic is not safe. And no responsible health professional will let that pass if they find out.

Falling over with a baby etc- no more likely to happen to SIL than the other millions of parents who have cared for their children whilst drunk.

Seriously? Someone who is repeatedly drunk is far more likely to have an accident with the baby than someone who is drunk once a year.

the only addicts I know of who have lost care of their children are ones who were single parents who were off their faces every day during the day and whose ex partners were in jail for drugs/DV.

Absolutely, that's why there's no reason for DB to fear losing the child. SS these days increasingly favour 'kinship care' where children are placed with family, grandparents, friends. Sometimes for a period while the parent sorts themself out.

The thing is we can all feel that SS may be appropriate but what they will actually do is probably not very much. Especially if DB is actively involved, even if there IS a big problem.

My SW had someone else's notes in my file and for months believed I was an addict who had a history of SS involvement and who had had my kids taken by family. He didn't really even discuss my supposed addiction and history with SC with me, made several appointments to see me and didn't turn up, only met him 3 times and once was the CIN meeting and it was only cleared up months later after he called CIN meeting and announced it there. At which point they had been given video evidence of EA of DD by my ex (she has complex needs and most likely ASD), they did nothing, disappeared of the face of the planet and then closed the case without telling anyone.

SS do not have the resources here to even be involved the majority of the time. They already only provide any support in the most severe cases. They each have a massive caseload. Further cuts are coming which mean the majority of the existing (limited) support will dry up. Most of the other services they used to refer to have also gone now.

Unless it is really bad I don't think they will do anything.

You can only go on the merits of the case, not by what you think SS might do or what their workload is.

None of us know the extent of SIL's alcohol problem, probably not even DB as he's working long hours. That's why it needs to be professionally assessed and the risk to the baby.

If SIL manages to stop all may be well. If she gets treatment SS may monitor her for a while until they're satisfied she can cope. If it's more problematic they may choose to place the baby with family while she sorts herself out. It doesn't mean she'll a lifetime of invasive involvement.

No I know. I don't think not telling SS about safeguarding concerns because you don't think they'll help is what anyone's saying.

However, I do think if there may be safeguarding concerns re SIL and her drinking DB needs to alter his life so that he is prepared to be more involved at home and less involved in work because it is simply the most sensible thing to do and because he will be the one expected to do it, SS involvement will probably be limited to just removing the child from her care if it is REALLY bad.

NancyWake:

This really is quite assumptive. We don't know how much or how often she is drinking, whether she needs to stop, whether treatment would be appropriate etc. This really could be a massive overreaction.

Yes, exactly Trifle

Nobody, but nobody, has said she is an 'alcoholic'

THIS IS ALL BASED ON NOTHING BUT SELF SERVING GOSSIP.

A lot of people seem to overlook the fact that SIL stopped drinking completely during her pregnancy. Doesn't sound like an alcoholic to me and I am one. What it sounds like is a lot of assumptions on little evidence.

The poor woman's FIL has ripped her and DH off, meaning she hardly sees him, and now her MIL is trying to prove she's an unfit mother. I'm amazed she's still speaking to them, and wouldn't blame her if she went NC with them - and you too if you join in this ill-advised intervention.

OK, you might talk in confidence to your DB about his view of his DW's drinking, but I wonder what he plans to do. You say he was planning to end the marriage before she got pregnant. If he doesn't think she's safe to care for the baby how on earth can he justify leaving her? Or does he plan to take the baby (how?) - if he did, who would care for it?

I don't think threatening SIL with SS will work out well for anyone. Strongly recommend you talk your DM out of this. If you like your SIL you'd be better to ask her how she is, and how she sees matters.

She may or may not be. If she is she may be a risk to the dc. It is really down to DB to work it out and deal with it.

Certainly not for his mother to sweep in telling her she is going to take the baby away!

Op - given that your SIL called you, and was obviously drunk and upset, it would be entirely normal for you to check in with her and see how she is doing more generally. You could even say 'you seemed really low the other night, are you coping ok with DB out of the house so much? I'm worried about you.'

You could also call your DB with the same question 'I'm worried about SIL. She called me the other night and was obviously leathered. Is she ok? Is she managing ok with you out of the house for so long?'

If people are concerned about the speculative nature of MIL's assumptions, then fuck it, really. Go straight to the horse's mouth. The fact is, you have enough information to know you are concerned. So now you need to find out directly whether your concern is valid, or not. If the DB genuinely has reached out to his mother, then that is of course very concerning. For the family member of an alcoholic to have actually reached out takes an awful lot of bravery, and should not be ignored.

That's how this shit gets worse - by people succumbing to societal stigma about alcoholism, and refusing to discuss it with anyone. That's what leaves families dealing with horrible situations alone. It's not fair on the children.

You chat to SIL - she reached out to you, after all. Why not go and visit for a weekend to see your new niece/ nephew? Chat to them both. Ask them if they are okay. Any new mother who is drunk and upset with a 4mo needs checking in on, whether they turn out to be an alcoholic or not. Clearly she is in need of SOME sort of support. She reached out. And if MIl is to be believed, DB reached out too.

Don't ignore them.