DM wants to stage intervention with alcoholic(?) DIL

[littleshoutymouse]

I'll try make this as concise as possible but it's still going to be long...

I posted recently about going NC with my dad, who had taken some money from my brother via their joint business account, just before my brother's baby arrived. Brother found out around the time the baby was born. This has forced my brother to seek new employment elsewhere while finishing up a few contracts for the old company that he felt duty bound to complete before leaving my dad to his own devices re. the business they co-owned. He's been very busy - working extremely long hours to make ends meet and says to me he feels like he hasn't really spent any time with his new baby.

SIL has apparently always been surrounded by alcoholism - her mum and her sister are, according to my DM, both alcoholics. Since the birth of the baby, she too has turned to the bottle, it seems. I had a very slurred phone call from her the other night telling me she wishes my toxic DF would die (she is entitled to her opinion in that respect as DF is a knob so I wasn't upset by the content of the call - more worried about the fact she was clearly steaming drunk with a 4mo in the house). DB was with her, sober, but I understand they had been arguing.

My mum (divorced from my dad now) rang me last night as she is worried about her grandchild, and wants to 'hold a family conference with SIL, brother and SIL's family' to discuss the child's safety, the alcohol problems and SIL and DB's relationship - basically she wants to stage an intervention. She is actively encouraging my brother to leave SIL as she is worried he will become depressed and 'hurt himself' (he's not said anything to indicate he feels this way). DB was apparently planning to leave her, up until she announced the pregnancy. As far as I can see, DB can't afford to leave and rent elsewhere, and it would leave the baby in a house with an alcoholic mother. I would much rather DB stayed to ensure baby is safe when the drinking starts.

Having recently had a baby myself, my suspicion is that a combination of PND, sleep deprivation, the financial stress of DB temporally loosing his income, effectively having to act as a single mother due to the circumstances around the baby's birth (DB working long hours) and a past rooted in alcoholism is what has triggered SIL's drinking - therefore I think the honourable thing for my DB to do is to stay, to help his partner and support her through this. Or at least to try (DM does not think he has not sought any professional advice or help for her and is worried doing so would trigger SS involvement).

DM disagrees and thinks DB should leave SIL and feels we can 'manage the situation as a family' and 'pull together'. She thinks SIL will take kindly to being sat down by her MIL and told she needs help, needs to allow DB to leave her and that she shouldn't look after the child - I strongly disagree and think it would kick off. My feeling is that if DM feels the child is at any risk then social services need to become involved, but otherwise her role at present should be to council my brother how best to help his partner and help him research places to find advice and support for them as a family. I feel DM would just be seen as meddling if she stages her 'intervention' and it won't help anyone.

Am I on the right track? I have no experience with alcoholism, neither does DM. I suspect DM just wants to look out for her grandchild and her son, but I can't help but feel my SIL's needs are not being addressed. She needs some compassion and support, surely?

I'm just not sure we are the ones to do that at this point, I think DB needs be instrumental in organising help for her, and I don't see why we can't support him in that respect. Obviously if that doesn't work or there is reason to suggest social services need to be informed, then I feel that is the best way forward.

So I suppose my question is - WWYD?

Are your parents still married? So your dad did something dreadful - stole from your brother, leading to a stressful time around the birth of your DN; and now your mother is meddling? No wonder your SIL is angry.

It really isn't your mother's place to intervene. Your brother is the person there, how could easily speak to the HV or GP and get support for his family. By phoning your DM he's activating the maternal 'find solution' mode, rather than her just providing a listening ear.

I don't think SS will do anything at all about one parent being drunk whilst the other parent is home and sober TBH.

One repeatedly drunk parent around a child is a problem regardless of whether there is a sober parent in the house. The drunk parent only has to drop the baby for it to end up in hospital or worse.

DB cannot realistically be home 24/7 and cannot singlehandedly be responsible for the child's safety.

If a health professional - health visitor or GP etc - gets wind of the alcohol problem they have a professional obligation to report to SS over safeguarding. SS will then do a risk assessment.

It would be better for DB to contact SS himself for help and support for his situation and show willing to work with them, rather than a professional alerting them, whereby the family will have to account for why they didn't contact SS.

Although I think your mother is wrongheaded in her intervention plan, I understand why she feels like the responsible adult in the situation. She would do better to put her energy into supporting DB to contact SS and working with them to ensure the baby's safety. SS will encourage DIL to to seek help/treatment.

offred, thank you for your replies.

I too suspect my mother is approaching this as a parent, and have said as much to her - that she needs to remember DB is an adult. She did take on board this, when I said it to her.

As a side note to all, I think her phone call to me the other night was a product of worry and not of being some awful toxic family member. She does genuinely care and I'd hate to give the impression she doesn't. I think she just feels quite helpless right now and is searching for the best thing to do.

arose suggested DM could offer to pay for some counselling sessions - I think this is a brilliant way DM could help without directly getting involved, so thank you.

Really bad idea, DM cannot involve herself in DIL's sobriety, it would be humiliating and invasive for DIL and she may resent it however well intentioned. DIL must find her own way to seek help her own terms, in private. AA is free, and the GP can recommend community alcohol services.

Talk to DB. Mum is really worried. What is going on? Are you ok? Is SIL ok? Is the baby ok?
If he tells you that SIL is drinking when she has sole charge of the baby, then DM is right that 'something' needs to be done. DB needs to be in the driving seat before the baby is harmed (neglect as valid as any other form of abuse, plus increased likelihood of accidents etc - is she driving drunk, etc etc). And of course, secondarily, your SIL can be offered support into treatment. She might choose not to take it. In that situation, then the priority becomes less about SIL's wellbeing and more about the baby.

Your poor DB. He must feel under pressure from all around.
Could you ask your MUm if she will leave it for 1 week while you have a private chat with DB to see what he thinks is the best for his family?
Then talk with DB, say how worried you all are and ask if he thinks his DC is being safely looked after. If he does, then you have to leave him to it (with phone and visit support). If he is concerned too, then encourage him to speak with the HV.

Getting DB to contact SS directly is a good idea, I agree. I believe they hold the key to support and help. I suspect he won't though, due to the stigma/fear of losing the child - DM is frightened of this too. I said I don't think they would unless seriously concerned.

Will have another talk to DM tonight perhaps.

I'm sorry, this is heresay at best. No no to ruining a womans life.

littleoldlady - sorry I should have said, it's a good idea provided the offer of councilling comes from DB - I don't think SIL needs to know her MiL is funding it. DM wouldn't be as daft as to 'flash the cash' so to speak.

dan - well, the other voice on my other shoulder say the same so yes, I can see that POV too.

I would call your db and ask him how everything is. Ask him if he needs any support from you. If he says he is concerned about her drinking then he can contact an alcoholics charity and ask for there advice. But if she isn't coping he needs to look at parenting more and working less. Somehow. To support her and his baby.

But in reality you can only offer advice and support. It's up to them to sort their situation out. No-one else can really intervene unless you think the baby is at risk of harm.

If your DB contacts SS himself, they may conclude that the baby is in the care of a responsible adult and therefore they have no role to play. They may tell him that, if he leaves the baby in his wife's care while she is drunk, he is putting the baby at risk so his parenting decisions will be called into question.

Please don't lead him to expect that they will bring oodles of nurturing support for his wife and baby.

I do agree with dan. OP you sound really lovely but your poor SIL has been destroyed by your family. She appears to have done nothing apart from be a victim, made more
Vulnerable due to her background.

That said, it's hard to know what to suggest. I'm inclined to discuss with your BIl but let him make the decision as to how he proceeds. His family, his child, his car crash family causing immeasurable stress. He knows his wife.

Interventions rarely work so I don't think it's worth serious consideration at this stage.

I wonder what your mother means by this DM disagrees and thinks DB should leave SIL and feels we can 'manage the situation as a family' and 'pull together'

As you've said upthread you both are 4 hours away from your DB and his wife and as such can offer no practical childcare or help.

This sounds like an abusive family OP. Not a woman to blame.

Be very careful about joining in with people shouting 'alcoholic' when you have NO personal evidence, live miles away, but they want 'back up' from you.

This woman is seemingly not harming her baby if she 100% did not drink all though her pregnancy, very recently, doesn't sound like an alcoholic to me.

Maybe she is going through 'a patch' and who can blame her?

Nothing could ruin this woman's life more than her tripping with the baby when drunk and/or a professional being obliged to report her. In that case SS will go in all guns blazing. She could also be reported by a neighbour.

If DB contacts SS himself they will support him to look after the baby, and encourage DIL to seek help. SS want children to stay within their birth families, they just need to ensure they're safe.

Who says she is an alcoholic? Really? Are you one? Shall I say you are?

I'll say you're a drug addict instead?

I don't take kindly to this attitude at all.

NOT to OP to nancy OP is very measured and I have faith.
These are DM's concerns, not hers.

and I think DM is projecting her own deep failings FWIW

Nancy honestly, as a PP said, SS aren't going to help SIL or BIL. There are thousands of addicts with children in their care. SS can not and do not take action as a matter of course because a parent is an addict. Being an addict doesn't automatically make you a danger to your children. You have to show some evidence that you are.

Falling over with a baby etc- no more likely to happen to SIL than the other millions of parents who have cared for their children whilst drunk.

Yy, the only addicts I know of who have lost care of their children are ones who were single parents who were off their faces every day during the day and whose ex partners were in jail for drugs/DV.

If DB is around and involved due to cuts it is highly likely SS will rely on him to step up.

I think you have to be very careful here. Sitting down your SIL a couple of months after she has given birth and your DM trying to get her to relinquish her child will have her running for the hills. She will tell your mother to go and fuck herself and could easily go NC with the whole lot of you. Unless she is an immediate danger to the child (neglecting it or hurting it) SS will probably do nothing at all. Unless she has a history of drunkenness and not just her in-laws saying she is a bit of a piss head, she will just deny it.

Is the baby being neglected? If the answer is no then it is none of your business.
Alcoholics are allowed to have children if they so wish.
How do you know she is one? The answer is you don't.
If your brother wants to leave her then he could be being over critical.
I have worked with SS and only if there is neglect is this their business.
Repeat.
You sound like interfering do gooders who clearly don't have a clue.

Shall I ring SS and say you are an alcoholic?
Poor woman.