Helping children get used to two homes

[justanillusion]

My children spend a lot of time with their Dad. We separated last year. I encouraged this initially for many reasons. I'm probably responsible for the set up. I don't think i have got it right with "two homes".

My just turned 3 year alternates between being really clingy and detached. He sleeps with me every night. When talking about going to his Dads he "hates" me and distances himself.

He doesn't refer to either place as home. Mine is "the house".

They don't want to come home from their Dads, they are hard work when they get home, then it fades after a while and both will be sat on top of me for cuddles. Maybe this is all typical. It is a less than ideal situation after all.

My older child was very difficult for a while and wanted more time at Dads so let him. Things improved a lot when i realised that was a mistake and spent more time with him. He was much happier.

When i tried suggesting last year that the then 2 yo was struggling to be away from me and we perhaps needed to reduce overnights my ex had a really strong reaction so i got nowhere. Before separating the youngest and i were together all the time so it was a huge change.

My instinct is that things aren't right for my youngest but i don't know how to fix this.
Would doing family things with ex help the children feel more secure about 2 homes rather than a disconnect in their lives? Or be more confusing.

I wonder if anyone has any advice/thoughts.

The 7/7 family I know have school aged kids. I don't know if they were separated when the kids were as young as 2. From reading MN, 3/4 (weekday changeover) seems more common for families who do 50/50.

I did the majority of care when ex and I were together so if he suddenly wanted 50/50 then I'd be livid for me. Luckily for me, ex would never want 50/50 as it would interfere with his career and his GF (who was OW) doesn't want kids so would cause too much stress on that relationship. Ex is a total Disney Dad so it's in everyone's interest that he isn't resident parent,

There's obviously lots more to this than you've mentioned. If you'd said that the ex was abusive then some would suspect that he was avoiding increased maintenance payments to you rather than looking out for ds2's best interests. You've been classy and avoided commenting on his ability as a dad which leads the reader of your post to assume that he's as good at parenting as you are. I don't know you or your son so you should trust your own gut instinct over a random Internet person like me.

I don't think anyone has said you shouldn't do best to remain civil at all. That's what everyone would like.

But sometimes as a parent, whether together or separated, you have to say things that the other one might not want to hear but is in interest of the dcs.

You can't make any decisions in your own. It has to be between the two of you. How much time exactly are they at dad's for? What would you like it to be?

I agree re toys at both homes. Mine also have pictures of the other parent in their bedrooms at each house. MY eldest took bedding from home too as she didn't feel comfortable with the duvet covers he had chosen. It made it feel better for her. Also I got them dressing gowns to leave there. Home comforts.

I was trying to keep my feelings about those things out if it because it seems once you separate any reference to the past seems irrelevant.

I wasn't really looking to change the contact/overnights. I was providing background to where we were at.

Minime yes it would be good if we were making joint decisions and could say difficult things. It's not necessarily within my power to make that happen although i am making little inroads. Clearly your situation is different and I don't feel able to explain here why I'm clearly not managing things as well as you do.

There are home comforts at his Dad's. I left there - so Dad's is the bedrooms they are used to etc. Everything here is new but I've hopefully made it homely. I'll have a think.

I think an activity that throws us together a bit (as in the swimming suggestion or cuddling in bed with hot chocolate and DVDs) on return might help.

I think boundaries and handover routine is something i can definitely work on.

Ellisandra i hope you are right that long term this is better. Thank you.

Op it's such a tough situation & its torture watching your kids suffer. Ive found reconnection type games good with both my kids 3 & 6.

There's a lot of ideas in playful parenting Lawerence Cohen
www.amazon.co.uk/Playful-Parenting-Lawrence-J-Cohen/dp/0345442865?tag=mumsnetforum-21

You do sound afraid of him.

I'm hesitating to say this but if you are entirely dependent on him for your income it follows you feel you are in his power and must at all costs keep him sweet. Money is powerful, presents a very powerful dynamic. Perhaps you could look at boosting your earning potential so you're less in, if not entirely removed from, his power.

Money is definitely a big part of it. And changing that is a priority. I completely agree with you.

Hopefully therapy is helping me with the rest. I can't acknowledge the fear just now without feeling overwhelmed.

I posted feeling awful which prob wasn't a good idea.

Have ordered the playful parenting book linked (thanks) so plenty of reading lined up.

You have all my support, just. One foot in front of the other. You're on the right tracks

Have you done the Freedom Programme? Please do. Just to check it off (everyone could do it imo). Look at their site, click 'find a course' to find a course near you. It is free, entirely anonymous, and many offer free childcare.

Please don't be thinking physical violence is the only abuse. Most on the course have never been hit.

Maybe one day.

Things get easily confused. Im not sure talking in a group about the relationship is possible just now. But thanks.

You don't talk in the Freedom Programme. It is a 12-week rolling programme where you look at different facets of abusive behaviour. Some people talk but you don't talk if you don't want to.

What do you mean things get easily confused?

By confusion i mean that trusting my judgement and being sure of my reality is a huge challenge.

In counselling we focus a lot on the here and now - and on helping me with DC, carefully balanced with the more difficult things. I think I need that.

I wish i was over it all by now but sometimes it is just one foot in front of another like you say, so it's a slow process.

Have you always had problems trusting your judgement, your reality?

I don't mean to pry, answer if you like but not otherwise. What I'm getting at is: it's it him who has fried your brain? Just a thought.

If so, I have been there. I came out with brain and heart intact. It was a difficult process - how I wish the Freedom Programme was around in those days. Xx

I think you get it springy. Thank you for posting.

The headfuck of having your thoughts corrected, your experiences questionned, it all feels so impossible to get a hold of. The more obvious things i can get my head around, even feel angry about.

Im not new to thinking about things but I've moved backwards recently. I was much more able to acknowledge how things were when i was in the middle of separating and it was raw.

I've made progress in the practical things, like boundaries, being less isolated. The bigger work in terms of getting my head together is slow.

When talking about things recently it seems every bit of honesty sends me into a tailspin of disbelief and questionning. I never feel certain for long. I'm hoping it getting difficult is progress.

But i absolutely was normal with a functioning brain once upon a time!

I hope these admissions don't make me seem even more like an unfit parent. I'm putting a lot of effort into it.

Did it take you a long time to come out the other side?

Sorry that was really long!

Justanillusion: I have no advice because I am in a similar position to you. I walked out over 2 months ago from a 21 year EA relationship. I feel a huge amount of responsibility and guilt for him. I have tried to help, tried to be civil but he just isn't getting the message. I tried to make it all about the kids, he is just making it all about me with some lipservice about how he adores the boys etc. The kids have been amazing and have adapted between going to both houses well (I left he is still at the family home) I have them most of the time, he has them EOW and one night a week at the moment.

On Thursday I told him I could not say I wanted to try and work things out as I still have a lot of work to do on myself and he has a huge amount of work to do too. In reality it is now totally over in my eyes. I tried to tell him that, again won't listen.He has spent the last three days bombarding me with texts, drinking to oblivion, alternating between calling me a bitch and that he loves me. He read his messages this morning after a night on the booze and told me he sees that he was being an asshole but started drinking again and the messages started again. I have blocked him for now.

I just came home with the boys after a day with the boys at the beach and he clearly has been out in his car as he has left a dvd of the final series of game of thrones. I think he thinks he is being nice, I think he is being creepy. I am starting to get a little bit afraid he's gonna do something stupid.

He is supposed to have the boys again on Tuesday, they are all he has got, and I don't know what to do. Its so fucked up.

Sorry to derail your thread, just wanted to say despite all this I still want to see he is ok. I bought the Lundy book today and another book on escaping emotional abuse. I know its me who needs to be firm and end this once and for all but the fear is paralysing.
Hope things settle down soon

When exdh and I did our divorce mediation, the mediator was brilliant and gave us lots of scenarios to consider with the kids, e.g. birthdays, parents evenings, christmas - it helped us make decisions and plan. She also offered to see the kids on their own if we wanted. We did not take her up on it. Maybe divorce mediation would be a good idea also for the kids.

Mine were older, 6 and 10, but what got us through was routine. They knew that every Wednesday, even other weekend and half the school holidays they were with their Dad. At first we also all went out to dinner for their birthdays - I hated it but they seemed to like it.

I also came home a few times to find exh in my house playing with DS. I asked him not to, he was still in the family home so it did make it difficult. Though we did find our boundaries.

Even 9 years later the kids do find the transition a bit difficult. I know to leave DD alone for an hour or so when she gets back from her Dads. I have also found that over the years he has become more relaxed about contact, and will often change it. The great thing about teens is that they can sort out their own contact so my contact with exh is minimal.

Good luck, it is a hard road, and kids are all different so it may take a few tries to work out the best solution for your family.

Oh heck, I'm so sorry I can't remember how long it took bcs it was over 20 years ago. It has been a process since then - hugely rich and rewarding re if you haven't been taken apart you don't get the chance to rebuild. Does that sound lame?

What I do know is the Freedom Programme, when it was eventually written and rolled out and I tipped up, was a beacon in the fog. I can't recommend it highly enough. Do go. It is wonderfully sensitively delivered and ime it got my head straight in record time. Fyi the majority on the course had never been hit - have I said that already? What I haven't said is that every woman who had been hit said, and I'm just quoting here, they would rather be hit any day than the mind/heart-bending torture of emotional and psychological abuse they experienced. The clear and concise info on the Freedom Programme broke the awful power of it in my experience.

Not for one moment do I think you are a sub-standard parent - and neither will anyone on the course

Women's Aid - the glorious, wonderful Women's Aid - will recommend the Freedom Programme as a first port of call. Have you contacted Women's Aid? National helpline is often busy during the day so best to call at night /overnight 0808 2000 247. However, try your local WA service during office hours - details on their site (or I will post the link when I get to my laptop). As with the FP, they are THE experts and know how to sensitively support. No forcing.

You don't have to do this on your own. Lean on the experts - they are brilliant in every way: emotionally, psychologically, practically, legally.

And as BlueSky recommended, get the Lundy Bancroft book ' Why Does He Do That? ' You'll recognise a lot there...

You may feel you can't cope with info, that you have to hold it all together. But that's the wrong way around: appropriate info and support will empower you.

Sorry to go on! Close to my heart and all that..

The little one is a toddler, used to having mummy around 24/7 and now being forced to spend almost half of his time away from mummy. It's really not fair on children, the way they are treated like possessions after a divorce (speaking as that child, who has been there). I think you should insist that you are the primary carer and that the children see him for regular set visits but not almost half their time. God their poor little lives must just be full of painful transitions. I know this view will be unpopular but I honestly don't care - it's blindingly obvious to me that it's not right to put kids through what your two are currently going through just so it's 'fair' on both parents.

springy thank you for your posts. I feel bad because I posted quite a lot about my relationship before, i read the books, felt like my eyes had been opened, thought i had clarity, and i left. So sorry if i made it seem like i haven't talked about any of this before. It wasn't intentional, i wasn't feeling good.
I posted last week feeling less sure of things, confused again. Like i got it all wrong.

I thought I'd feel sure by now. Hopefully I'll feel more certain some time. Sorry for wasting time.

I have also realised how specific the details I've posted are. I was careful last year to post more discreetly as i thought my H had read my posts. So i don't want to say too much.

Thanks for others posts too. I'm sorry for others experiences.

You're confused bcs you are still very much in his orbit. Or, to be more precise, in his presence.

You have to see that being around people like this is like breathing in poisonous gas. I'm very long in the tooth with all this stuff and even I wouldn't risk spending time with my abuser - who tailored his abuse. You and I have to accept that no amount of willpower or knowledge inures us from their abuse. It actually happened, it was - and is - extremely toxic for us personally. We can't afford to go anywhere near them.

You're wasting no one's time, you are an abused woman - most take a number of tries to break free, you are not alone with that.

You say you've read the books etc but did you go to WA etc, or have you done all this yourself? It can't be done alone. It isn't theory, it actually happened and the awful damage was done. By doing this yourself you keep it in your head as theory - which, admittedly, is a way to distance ourselves from the trauma. There is a place for theory (eg the Freedom Programme) but healing ultimately comes through facing the reality of what happened, and the subsequent trauma, and working through it. There's no way around it. As you have seen, knowing all about it isn't enough, sadly.

As difficult as it is to face, we are have to accept we are no match for someone like this. The depth of their abuse, the breadth of it, is overwhelming for the bog standard among us. That is, you and me. They are very toxic individuals and they can't be contained. The only thing we can effectively do is get away from them to the best of our ability. We can't be lulled into thinking we can handle them. We really can't.

I'm not telling you off, my tone is urgent re 'where angels fear to tread'. A crucial part of recovery involves coming to terms with the reality of what happened to us - and, as with any traumatic event, it's not a straightforward road re we can slip in and out of facing it precisely bcs it is, feels, overwhelming. Xx

You said It actually happened or similar a few times. Which my counsellor has said a lot to me.

A bit of me thinks that if i could just forget everything I'd be able to be ok. Not working though.

I haven't been trying to do it alone, I've had counselling throughout. In fairness to my counsellor i struggle to engage about the worst things. Maybe i need to work harder at that.

I worry if i talk about it I'm wallowing. I've downloaded a book called "Constructive wallowing; how to beat bad feelings by letting yourself have them." Might help!

I will look into the things you have suggested. Thank you.

Nothing like spending time with others who have experienced something similar, whatever it is. Brilliant you're going to counselling - but counselling happens in secret, a private pocket away from real life in a sense. Very easy to put the abuse there too, in a little pocket filed away. Meeting with others naturally breaks that isolation and denial. Ime the women I met at eg WA support groups and the FP were ordinary women just like me. It wasn't all heavy and serious but ordinary. Yes we were all traumatised but that didn't constantly take centre stage iyswim.

I'm concerned you may feel, as with the issue with the kids and contact, you are the only one facing this. I assure you, there are hoards of us out here who have experienced the exact same thing. You absolutely are far from the only one to have experienced it. You may feel others didn't have it so bad but again, that isn't accurate. Many of us have experienced this horror - and come out the other side.

Ime I never did tell a therapist the full extent of what happened. Like you, I couldn't bear to open that box. Interestingly, I recently feel the time has come to do that - over 20 years after it. Imo I have suffered for not telling but the moment passed and, as time went by, it seemed harder to turn and face it in therapy. I had enough on my plate practically, bringing up kids on my own, dealing with the ongoing abuse from my ex, court cases...

Burying something like this is absolutely disastrous, the result FAR worse than what you and I try to avoid. You may not be ready yet BUT do make inroads into the large community you are very much part of. Get info about the abuse and work through it with others. That's what I mean about not doing it alone: do it with others who are your peers. Your therapist can ' hold ' you as you make your way through.