Helping children get used to two homes

[justanillusion]

My children spend a lot of time with their Dad. We separated last year. I encouraged this initially for many reasons. I'm probably responsible for the set up. I don't think i have got it right with "two homes".

My just turned 3 year alternates between being really clingy and detached. He sleeps with me every night. When talking about going to his Dads he "hates" me and distances himself.

He doesn't refer to either place as home. Mine is "the house".

They don't want to come home from their Dads, they are hard work when they get home, then it fades after a while and both will be sat on top of me for cuddles. Maybe this is all typical. It is a less than ideal situation after all.

My older child was very difficult for a while and wanted more time at Dads so let him. Things improved a lot when i realised that was a mistake and spent more time with him. He was much happier.

When i tried suggesting last year that the then 2 yo was struggling to be away from me and we perhaps needed to reduce overnights my ex had a really strong reaction so i got nowhere. Before separating the youngest and i were together all the time so it was a huge change.

My instinct is that things aren't right for my youngest but i don't know how to fix this.
Would doing family things with ex help the children feel more secure about 2 homes rather than a disconnect in their lives? Or be more confusing.

I wonder if anyone has any advice/thoughts.

springy i cant quite work out what you think im doing wrong. Not that i'm getting it right - but i don't get where you think the tit for tat is and i struggling to see what you are suggesting i should be doing.

When i worry about offending him i am not worrying just about his feelings but the greater fallout of losing the civility between us (in terms of housing, contact and more).

I'm obviously struggling to adjust but it's my youngest child I'm worrying about.

Maybe we're just misunderstanding each other. Don't worry.

On the subject of doing things together with the ex, my own experience has been that DS loves it when we get together (we get on well), to the extent that I worry about him wanting us to get back together (never going to happen!)
This is exactly what happened with eldest after some joint birthday celebrations. So i thought a bit of distance might be better but was questioning myself. It's difficult to know. Thanks for your thoughts and experience BottleBeach.

You're not playing tit for tat

To quote myself lol. Note the NOT.

I'm not saying you're getting anything wrong, as such. I'm giving you advice. Which you've asked for. And as I've been in an identical situ, back in the day, I've kind of got the benefit of experience.

So. Perhaps jeopardise the civility for the sake of the kids ie civility not the top priority, the kids the top priority.

The kids' welfare I mean as the top priority.

Ok. I can't jeapordise the civility. It is about the kids. But thanks and sorry for misunderstanding.

Why can't you jeopardise the civility? What I mean is, what are the reasons you don't feel you can jeopardise the civility? YOu say it's about the kids, but the kids, or dc2, is suffering - so it's ultimately not for that child.

What comes across is you seem to think your situation may be unique, that you are alone in facing this very difficult - impossible - dilemma. But you are not - many, many people face the same. And sometimes some very hard choices have to be made. It can be the cost of splitting when kids are involved, sadly.

No amount of eg keeping an identical toy in each home so dc2 can feel more secure will fix it. My daughter struggled with the to-ing and fro-ing right up until her mid teens. The others didn't have a problem with it, but she did. We had to make choices around her needs. They were very difficult choices for us, as parents. But for her sake they had to be made. I had to make them, ultimately. It didn't go down well with her father but I had to risk that for her sake. The ensuing meltdown conflict had to be kept away from the kids.

Are you afraid of your ex?

Watching this with interest, as we move towards 'two home' permanence.

This could be your 2 year old's personality.

I have 3 kids with my ex. My youngest (10 years old) transitions easily from mine to dad's. (They see Dad once a fortnight)

My oldest (16) becomes restless and twitchy in the 24 hours before going. (Especially on the day he's collected). There's nothing "wrong" with dad or going there - it's just that he's a homebody and not a fan of sleeping away for the night. He's the same if we go to a hotel so confident that it's a personality thing. My middle child is quiet on the day that dad comes to pick up.

When they return, oldest is back to normal immediately. Youngest is his usual bouncy self straight away but my middle child is quiet and distant for a few hours before going back to normal. Ex and I split 5 years ago.

It's easy to blame any negative change on the divorce but as someone has already said, it could easily be a normal developmental stage. Would you feel as guilty if your 2 year old was ambivalent about nursery?

Does your 2 year old have a calendar of sorts so he can see which day is mummy/daddy days? How often do you talk about daddy picking him up? I found myself reminding the kids too much that daddy was coming on Saturday at 2pm which they probably sensed was me projecting my anxiety. I have a calendar in the kitchen clearly marked with what's happening each weekend and I have noticed them referring to it.

Op there is lots of great advice here but I agree, that unless you are not giving a picture of the reason for split which could be a danger to the dcs, you do seem to be dismissing the advice.

If it's about the kids, which it should be, then you risk that civility because you have to and so should he as the parents. I wish I could have my kids all the time like I thought I would when I had them. But that's not the reality anymore. My 9 year old goes through phases (it never does settle and stay that way as I said in a previous post, things change) sometimes she is awful when she comes back for 2-3 days. So I spoke to her dad. Told him how bad it was and suggested what needed to change, even if he didn't want to hear it. It was worth it as she is in a better place for now. Whilst my 12yr old doesn't play up she prefers to be at home, doesn't fit in at dad's as well. Needs me to be her voice and tell dad things she is worried will upset him but need to be said. You have to be that person. And if he cares about the kids he should listen. He should change too.

Children need routine but on the opposite side, flexibility to change. They need to see mum and dad are putting their needs first e.g. If there is a family wedding or a school disco or lots of homework that has to be done so dad needs to change plans.

I do think the kids seeing mum and dad attend parents evenings and plays together is important. We do that.
It's hard op. I know, I've been there for nearly four years. But it's ever changing. When both of mine go to secondary school things MAY need to change again and their dad and I must adapt to their needs, not our own.

I found myself reminding the kids too much that daddy was coming. This is a really good point. I think i may have happened this week as it was going to be extra time away. I did it in a jolly way, mentioning how much fun they have with daddy - but kids aren't stupid.

Yes, a big visual chart might help. There's something up for the eldest but i could do one works for the toddler.

That's quite a few ideas now. thanks all.

Springy i feel very vulnerable all the time. Like the family nanny and he could easily look after the children without me. I'm very dependent on him for money - above the cm rate. I can't change that just yet but i am of course working on it. It's also difficult to change the dynamics of a relationship where i did everything to avoid conflict. But I'll get there.

Cross post. Sorry you feel I'm dismissing things. I haven't explained the background dynamics and i don't want to talk about the relationship because i have to make this work regardless.

I wasn't looking for your dirty laundry just to try and understand where you were coming from. I wish you lots of luck and hope things improve for you and dcs.

We have a policy of whenever kids or parent want to contact kids they can. In early days they did it a lot but not so much now.

Minime sorry i realise I might not have responded to your posts. Sorry, defensive is probably a sign i know im setting it wrong . I appreciate the input and re-reading there are really useful thoughts/experience. Thank you.

Personally, I think you should enlist the support of a family therapist before suggesting reducing contact, which lets be honest, you would have a visceral reaction to if the roles were reversed. DD had play therapy when she was 2.5 (she witnessed her father assault me) and it was really helpful not just for DD but for me as well because not knowing what's going on in your kids heads is very disconcerting. The therapist provided incredible support and I think I gained more than DD because fear wasn't dictating my responses.

You've gone from a SAHM who co sleeps to your children being away 3 nights out of 7, Be very careful that you missing them isn't the subconscious driver to reducing contact, I'm not accusing you but, you have said that you would have difficulties if the shoe was on the other foot and would reducing contact be so acceptable if you were on the receiving end of the reduction.

I think your commitment to civility is commendable and in the long term it will benefit everyone but I don't fully understand the reasoning behind him spending anytime in your home (given how much time he spends with the kids) and more family time could further blur the boundaries.

Be very careful that you missing them isn't the subconscious driver to reducing contact
That's absolutely my fear. I'm very concious of that. My therapist thinks that being careful not to make decisions for this reason has caused me to step back too far and ignore what seems obvious - that the children needed more time with me. It's so difficult to get it right.

(I wasn't co sleeping before moving, there was nowhere else to sleep. DS was in his cot. Just in case i sound like a "clingy" mum.)

I think i made bad decisions for various reasons..... If i let him see the children as much as he likes, he will never try to take them full time, afraid that if he didnt see them lots he'd walk away from them altogether, and leaving with self esteem in the gutter and feeling like i wasn't good for them. And simply because i feel guilty towards him for taking them away.

The issue of time in my house is difficult, he pays the mortgage so it's difficult to treat it like mine. I have managed to tentatively put in some boundaries like not going in my bedroom but even this he was grumpy about. In fairness he'd probably be happy for me to treat his home as mine. I dont, i am respectful.

It's far from simple. Although as per pp its probably a nothing new. I am getting help with the relationship from counselling. I just wanted others experience of helping children adjust.

Of course maybe i simply miss them.

I did wonder about therapy for the youngest. I will consider it.
My eldest has adjusted so well, it's difficult with tiny children.

what I did at that age was have ex to stay over at house one night a week and I went out. Ex slept on a sofabed downstairs.

The youngest also didnt want to go to his so we worked up to it. Started one night at the weekend and worked up to two over a year or so.

We have always shared Christmas Day so as the kids didnt have to miss anyone. They love Christmas Day.

You can do different patterns and arrangements if you choose.

Hmm, it's interesting that you hadn't thought of therapy for your youngest, despite seeing a therapist yourself.

To be frank, I thing reducing contact would be a bad idea at this stage because it sounds like you'd like it to be the solution, rather than it being the solution. This in contrast to your reluctance to assert your own boundaries regarding your home.

I'm glad you've seeing a therapist because you do sound a bit all over the place and hopefully your therapist is helping you to structure your thoughts.

Boundaries or lack there of, appears to be a problem for you. He's a joint owner of your house but it's your home and you are entitled to privacy. I also think that it's very important for your children to see you setting and exercising boundaries too, the blurring of them will make it harder not easier for them.

Go back to basics with regards to contact, your children are entitled to a relationship with their father and if them having that is threatening to you, them that's something you should work on with your therapist.

Do you have a Parenting Plan? It doesn't have to be anything too detailed but having agreements in black and white should help you both navigate co parenting better, providing a common hymn sheet to sing from.

Focus on understanding yourself better, that investment will make you a more effective parent and c-parent.

Hmm, it's interesting that you hadn't thought of therapy for your youngest, despite seeing a therapist yourself.

Really? He was 2. I've seen a therapist since before leaving. She helped me get out. She helps me work out what I'm doing to look after the DC.

I'm constantly trying to get things right for them. I'm trying to juggle what is normal adjustment and what is a problem.

To be honest this thread literally terrifies me in terms of entering mediation with him.
Why is everyone so quick to assume a mother has dubious motives when it comes to working out contact?

Yes boundaries are a problem. They were trampled all over in my marriage. Didn't I acknowledge my difficulties with boundaries but talk about how I'm trying to put some in place?

OP- 2 of my 3 kids weren't talking much at 2.5 years old so I wouldn't have thought of therapy either.

With regards to contact, it's hard to for us as third parties to understand why you think that reducing contact with Dad is the answer. I'd be considering 7/7 or 2/2/3 as suggested earlier before 5/2 or 6/1 in favour of you. Your ex might argue that he doesn't behave like that at his house and why shouldn't he be resident parent over you.

I personally have 13/1 but I know kids who do 7 days with each parent and are thriving so this isn't a 50/50 bashing post.

Thank you relaxo.

I cannot quite believe that i come across so badly someone needs to tell me my children are entitled to a relationship with their father.

I could not have done more to facilitate their relationship.

relaxo i am primary carer for the children and always have been as a joint choice. Ex rarely made bedtimes when he could have. He went away for occasional long weekends and it would never have occurred to him to call them to say goodnight. Until i left he didn't do nighttimes with DC2. He had never put both boys to bed. I rarely had was allowed time to myself so it was rare that DC were without me. The first week he had the boys post separation he texted me to ask what food they ate. I could go on and on but i had no interest in dredging over the past, it's now that's important. He is stepping up now and i help.

However, how things were is probably relevant to how DC2 has felt, it does not seem unreasonable to consider whether DS2 needed a staged approach to contact and might feel much more secure as he gets older. Like his brother does.

I had thought rewinding and cutting back on overnights might give him a chance to get some sort of sense of settled/secure back. And then try again.

I included that we had that conversation to say it's a no go in case it was suggested.

I'm a SAHM. He works. Doesnt matter what anyone thinks of that, it's DCs reality. I don't understand why it is not obvious that being away from me would be difficult for a toddler/preschooler.

I have concerns over 7/7, for example, as ex can be angry and i worry that so much of the daily grind of parenting might cause difficulties as DC get older, assert themselves, push buttons etc. He has them for fun weekends and i think that is helping it work well for them.

To me it's about what makes my child feel secure now, while working long term to ensure a meaningful relationships with both parents. Hes a child at an age where separation is an issue. He's not a possession to bandy around numbers "in favour" of anyone.

And honestly if 7/7 ends up being our reality before my children are older leaving will have been a huge mistake no matter what was going on.

It's the great big missing link in the LTB advice.

This very much reinforces the need to keep things amicable, despite the criticism of me doing that.

You have to go back to the reasons for leaving though.

My 4/5yo coped really well. I'd worked away from home regularly since she was 12 months so the transition was much easier - that said, when I was home (about 10 nights in 14) XH did fuck all and she and I coslept. So she was used to me as primary carer and him 4 nights a week between 18:00-20:00.

When she was 7yo, we had about a month of her calling me in tears some nights saying she missed me.

I was heartbroken. Thought I'd made a mistake.
Then I remembered the relationship example that she was being set, that would influence her own relationships. Not that XH and I fought. But there was ZERO love, no friendship, no touch, no happy laughter.

Yes, she had a month of upset (I think it was due to stepmother - who is nice - moving in). But she's also had 3 years of seeing both me and her father model happy relationships.

Don't forget that you did not have a choice of happy family vs emotional upset. This is the hard part, but it leads to better than then would have experienced over years of you not LTB.

You'll all get there

Have you tried a 'goodnight phonecall'? When me and dh split, he'd call down or phone every night. When the kids were at his place, I'd phone up to say goodnight. Pain in the arse, but the kids enjoyed it.

Their bedrooms were painted the same colours at both homes, and they had clothes and toys at both. Dh made Fridays special; he'd cook, make them hot chocolate with marshmallows and watch films with them.