Should I see my Dad?

[Natt]

This is a bit of a complicated one but would welcome an outside view. I am expecting baby no 2 at beginning of july and am about to start mat leave. First time round I didn't start mat leave early enough, got ill, had baby a bit early etc so this time round have been looking forward to hanging out with no 1 and getting ready for no 2 in a more relaxed way. My father with whom i do not get on and who was a bit of a sh*t when we were growing up is over from the US in about a week and staying until early July with new fiancee (who is our old next door neighbour from when we were growing up). Usually when he visits, I just grin and bear it (he doesn't stay with me and I have 3 siblings to share load) but am feeling like I really don't want to deal with him (he winds me up horribly and invariably says unacceptable things about my mother). to cut to the chase was wondering of it would be ok just to say no to seeing him and if so, how to go about it. My sisters seemed very uneasy about the idea but... any thoughts anyone?

Ah this really is a familiar situtaion to me, I also have a father in the US who I do not get on with and every time he comes over for a visit I have to go through the inevitable guilt trips (put on me by siblings) because I choose not to see him. IMO I would say that if you do not want to see him then don't, the end of a pregnancy is hard enough without putting yourself through additional stresses. As to how to go about it just tell your sisters that you don't intend to go with them for visits/days out etc and do not let them bully you into changing your mind. If your dad contacts you directly get your dh to tell him you are not up to any visits at the moment (unless of course you are brave enough to tell him yourself). Personally I have always gone for the avoidance plan and pretty much gone into hiding for the duration of his visits

Good luck

Agree, stay clear. You need to be very protective of yourself in the next weeks. You must be apprehensive enough after what you went through last time. You're on leave from work, you should be on leave from all stressful ordeals, and your sisters should be forming a human shield around you to keep s**ts away.

Thanks Peanut and Eemie - was beginning to feel like I was the one being a s**t, now feel much better. Dad notoriously told older sister how fat she was looking when she was pregnant, so wasn't looking forward to that much...

I too feel if your father causes you much grief you should not have him around at this time. Maternity is your time to relax and get ready for your baby its not the time to get upset and all stressed out. I would just be truthful to him and tell him how you feel and that now would not be a good time for him to visit. Your sister should stick up for you and understand your about to become a new mom all over again. I would normally give advice on trying to talk and work things out but with being pregnant and needing to take time off to relax I would say you dont need any negative treatment especially from a parent.

I totally agree that you should avoid your dad. This is a precious time for you and nothing should be allowed to spoil it.

natt, keep away and everytime guilt tries to prise its way into your thoughts, remind yourself that you, your child and unborn baby deserve the best!

Definitely avoid him. If he does upset you, and it sounds like he probably will, then you're much more likely to dwell on it in your condition. You've got enough on your plate

btw, how is he with your child? If he's ok with your kiddie, and he really wants to see him/her then one of your siblings could maybe take him/her along to see him, to give him less reason to feel hard done by perhaps. on the other hand if he's not so nice to grandchild, then don't bother, and you'd have no reason to feel guilty either. Hope it all works out

Monkey - he is quite sentimental and pretends to like kids (and then is awful to them once they are old enough to have their own opinions). i think at the very least will have to make it possible for him to see no 1. A further guilt factor is that he has had ongoing health problems and am a bit worried that if the worst happened at some stage and I had not seen him i would feel terrible. I am tempted to make something upas a big excuse but really can't think what...

Dear Natt, I know how EXACTLY you feel. My dad is v similar - totally thoughtless and self-absorbed and was cruel to my mum when I was growing up. However, he had a heart attack a while back and I was unexpectedly devastated. I didn't see him for years, but the shock of his nearly dying and my response made me change a bit. Now I do make the effort to let him visit and see his grandson once every two-three months because I know how awful I would feel if he died suddenly. At least I now know that I would not feel guilty (though he was a pretty bloody awful dad and I shouldn't really). I invite him round for a very clear time (ie pretend we have to go somewhere at a certain time) and my dh really takes the strain off my making all the conversation with him while I hide quite a bit. Would it be possible to have one meeting like that? Or to go to one family event where all your sisters are present and your dh and only stay for a short predetermined time? That way you do your 'duty', prevent any guilt (no matter how undeserved) and can get on with the rest of your life. I find seeing him in this way less stressful than not seeing him at all/hiding from phone calls/making up excuses etc. This is just my experience but...

My dad has been in remisson from lymph cancer for 4 years now but I never saw his illness as a reason to see him if I really didn't want to. IME you end up feeling worse (ie. very resentful instead of just guilty) if you make yourself do something just because you think you should or you feel duty bound. You may not be able to pick your family but you can limit your exposure to them. My dd is 8 1/2 months old and has seen my dad once and I was railroaded into that meeting. Afterwards I really wished I had been firmer as I don't feel he deserves to be a part of our lives.

Natt - Please do whatever it is in your heart of hearts that you really want to do and don't worry about what may happen or what anyone else may think.

Can I hijack this one a bit ? Feel free to ignore me !

My Dad who has been divorced (not his wish but my mum) now lives alone in a different town several hundred miles away, he now suffers from depression (and alcoholism), he has no money to his name and has no hope (being realistic) of getting a job as he is 65. (I should add a job that he'd be willing to do!), due to a severe accident his legs are not in good health so he can't do anything that is remotely physically strenuous. He has no contact at all with my mum as he can't stand her anymore and he gets a call once in a blue moon from DB.

This is my problem : he is very needy... he wants to come and stay with us (being depressed he does nothing all day and gets up at 1130)... which we are really NOT keen on. He needs money and makes it subtely clear... but I have given him a LOT of money in the past before kids ... now I want to enjoy life and not be reminded all the time that he is in such a difficult situation and need my support.

His sister does look after him a bit - they see each other 1x a week... so I feel guilty that she is doing what I should be doing. Also DB is doing very little and it is very frustrating.

Am I being selfish ???

pupace, what a difficult situation for you, please do not feel guilty your priority has to be your partner and kids. I have no direct experience of this, so please ignore me if I am talking a load of tosh.
I can understand you feeling you want to help your Dad, but if he did come and stay, what would the effect be on your children. I'm not sure how old they are, but they could find it quite unsettling or upsetting if he is acting 'oddly' due to his illnesses. If you wanted to see him, would it not be possible to have a weekend away near where he lives and arrange to pop in and see him for a short while?
My thoughts are with you on this one please take care.

Pupace or even Pupuce - sorry about the typo.

Hey, even I wouldn't have my father stay with us. I think a short meeting/visit is very different from staying over and I wouldn't feel guilty about saying no. I do feel a tug of duty and some compassion for my father (& I don't think duty is a bad thing BTW) so I agree to see him under controlled conditions. And as I say, I found my previous feelings of guilt and the stress of lying/making excuses/avoiding phone calls much worse than a short meeting every so so often, but a visit? No way. I think it's fine to call him etc but don't feel you have to have him stay in your house. You're probably naturally a very kind person, which is good.

I agree with what others have said, Pupuce. You are in the throes of reorganising your life, starting a new business etc, and have two small children to consider. He has nothing to motivate him to move on once he is under your roof and he may well end up as a permanent house guest.
He does sound lonely and vulnerable, and it is a shame he lives so far away, but there is only so much of you, your energy and your wallet to go round and you have your priorities straight. Maybe tell him he can come for a short visit once he is off drink and has got himself some work (part-time, voluntary?)to give his life more structure. Is he getting any kind of social support where he is?
And Natt, you should avoid your dad too. Be busy, be out, don't answer the phone. And stay well.

Thank you all for your kind words.
My kids are very young and quite positively my son (2 1/2) "loves" his granddad... at least keeps talking about him... he doesn't know any of the issues and I don't know if he really notices that my father is unwell.
Actually this is one of the things that thoroughly annoy me about him : he really only cares about himself and when I recently spent a whole lunchtime (2h) with him and the kids - he interacted VERY little with them. He just manages NOT to say things like : can you ask your son to keep it down (he doesn't say that but you can see he is annoyed). BTW he does not know I am leaving my corporate job - he has anxiety attacks and he could not take that and when I breifly mentioned I was thinking about such a thing, he called me back 10 minutes later because he couldn't sleep and "was I mad ?"... all nicely intented but I am not going to add to my worries the fact that he can't cope with my work situation.

Before x-mas - he was quite unwell and I felt obliged to invite him to stay with us for 4 days but I told him he would sleep at a local hotel as I do not have an extra bedroom to put him in.... he chose not to come because he didn't want to stay in a hotel ! So I may use this argument again because I really don't want him to sleep in my house. DH and I need a bit of room/air when he is around (we always count : how many more nights before he leaves... feel dreadful saying that BTW!)

I have called helplines on his behalf (he won't do it), called doctors for him, gave him names and tel numbers of specialists... he just does as he pleases ! His was sent to a day hospital where he needed to be every day at 830 until 5PM. They would have group discussions and some creative or physical activities and a nourishing lunch. Considering that he had no money or no activity.... this sounds like heaven ! Well - he can't stand getting up early so now he goes only twice a week! And he does not want to go to the group sessions as he does not want to hear others' problems : too depressing!

I have tried at every phone call to suggest activities,... he always has an excuse - he expects his situation to improve without him making (too much) effort.

BTW - his GP has given up on him !!! Which I find astounding... but knowing my Dad : I can understand the GP's frustration !

Pupuce, it must be hard. IME alcoholics &, often, depressed people can't accept help until they decide they have a problem & need help. I had an irritable, prescriptive (sometimes), depressed, alcoholic father & used to find it hard when he came to stay. When he died I wished I'd been more forgiving & accepting of his problems & had seen more of him. I don't know if there's a middle ground: perhaps not giving him any money (will he drink it anyway?), not taking any notice of what he says about your job, but still seeing him. Sorry, I hope you don't think this is meant to make you feel guilty, it's not, I just want to say something about forgiveness, illness and regret (in my case). Best of luck.

That's exactly what I worry about.... when he dies, will I regret not being there more for him !
He does want to get better (he says) as he finds his disease horrible but he doesn't make enough effort... he says that's because he is depressed.

If he comes to my house (as he has in the past) - we have to make a huge effort to find topics of conversation which are not related to him and his problems.... we are quite successful but at dinner there is always a way for him to bring the subject : and off we go for a round of self-pitty !

I think the whole issue of regret is a biggie. I see my dad and invite him to my house just for this reason. He's inconsiderate and there's a lot of unfinished business from my childhood, but I couldn't stop him seeing his grandson. BUT I still wouldn't have him to stay. Do the hotel thing, visit him, call him, but don't have him living in your house if you can't bear it. I couldn't stand my dad staying over with us. We just don't have the room, anyway, thank god.

I don't know if this adds anything to Pupuce's considerations (her situation is a lot harder than my own), but having caved in to guilt and seen my own Dad, the result was pretty disastrous. Tried to be pleasant, neutral and get through whole thing without horror, but he (having cooed sentimentally at grandson, then ignored him) insisted on bringing up big sis's relationship breakdown in order to blame her for it (and by extension my mother for their divorce) - underlying message being that me, mum, sisters are all awful witches but he loves me and sisters anyway because he is such a good person (never mind that he was foul to us throughout our childhood). Ended with me wheeling buggy out of park in tears and suspect this is end of whole "relationship". I guess if there is something to be gleaned from this, maybe it is that whilst you should do your best to maintain family ties, some relationships are just poisonous and you should cut your losses. This may not be your situation at all Pupuce - I think my Dad is a really horrible person whereas yours maye just be troubled, sad etc, and the answer may be to do what you can for him within the kind of limits other people have suggested. Very sorry I didn't take the good advice people posted on this thread!