My daughter's mum is absent again on mother's day

[mumdad1973]

Mother's day is always a bit difficult. I have still been living with my wife (although leading separate lives) these last 6 years in order to look after my daughter and try to ensure stability for her.

Today my daughter was looking forward to spending mother's day with my wife. She asked her eagerly what they could do together. But, my wife left the home in the morning with barely a look at the card my daughter had made and spent the whole day away, only arriving home after 9pm.

My wife never attends parent's evenings or gets involved in out of school activities. Any attempt to try to encourage her to do so is met with stern resistance. My own mother passed away 30 years ago and I seem to act as counsellor to my own dad who suffers with depression and my brother who suffers with aspergers. Both of them are generally doing well but are vulnerable and can't help or support me as both have autistic tendancies and can't navigate social situations well.

I am orgainsing an amicable divorce and negotiating a shared childcare arrangment (although this sometimes concerns me a little, given my ex's hands off approach to childcare). I know I can achieve much more by negotiation than making an argument over these problems.

But it seems such a shame for my daughter to miss out on what I had from my own mother. I've talked to the school about it and will continue to monitor the situation to look for any anxiety in my daughter. Fortunately I can cheer her up most of the time as I'm an optimist and see 'the glass has half full'.

I use yoga and music to keep myself going. Days like today make me feel really sad for my daughter though and remind me of the other times my wife has been absent e.g. when my daughter when I were in a car crash and went to hospital & my wife didn't come home for a couple of days. After which she expressed little interest in what had happened (that's almost literally what she said actually).

My sister-in-law is a real God-send and often helps out with clothes, school pickups. Without her, I would definitely struggle.

Just wondered if anyone else has experienced anything similar?

And come 31st dec you could quite probably win fuckwit of the year as well. agreed. I think MMM3 is the wife.

OP it sounds like you really care about getting this right for your dd. I think you're wise to pause and think about what happens next, because with mum home or mum away, your dd is getting a clear message that she's not a high priority to her mum. Is trying to constantly gain attention from a semi-present parent any better than just never seeing them again?

With my own father, who could hardly get himself together to care enough to visit me 3/4 times year... it was a relief when I told him I was fine not seeing him at all and I'd rather we just stopped pretending.

OP you deserve a life too, how will you meet someone new with your wife around, how can you relax at all in the evening with her there!

Thanks Cricrichan. I'm not sure regarding work as we never really talk. I'd be speculating and might be unduly negative about it.

Hi nonameinspiration - Once I've bought her half of the house, I should be able to get her to leave. I am considering helping her to find the place to rent and helping her to move out, otherwise it might not happen. If I were to sell the house, I think my daughter would be heartbroken.

I sort of walk a tightrope Lovemusic33 where I'm trying to explain my wife's behaviour is not right whilst trying to be careful not to create any prejudice or bias against her mum with something that I say. I wouldn't wish to cause parental alienation or to be accused of causing it. My daughter has other examples of parental behaviour to compare with and occasionally calls my sister-in-law mum too.

At age 10, my daughter is aware of what is normal and able to express that she is unhappy my wife's care (or the lack of). She is happy in general, but not regarding her mother's behaviour. She's told me how she feels and we've had lots of hugs and talks about it. The school tells me my daughter is very kind and supportive with the other children there.

My wife says she wants shared custody. I can't understand why she doesn't want to spend much time with her. Honestly that breaks my heart for them both as children grow so fast and the time we have at that stage of life is so short.

Thanks turnaroundbrighteyes. I'm sorry to hear you have had similar experiences with MIL . My wife does not like to discuss things with me much at all and tends to leave abruptly. She arrived so late (after 9pm on Sunday) and went straight to bed. So I couldn't talk about it then as she made it clear that she did not want to talk with me. I'm going to have a go at discussing it when I see her next and later in the week. I've got to be careful when and how I say things.

Hi LIZS, yes I think you are right. I was denying this to myself. I was hoping that my wife would improve. I'm an optimist, and sometimes not realistic. In general I've accepted that she won't change. However, I want to create the opportunity for change to occur so I don't prevent it, if ever there is a change of heart.

I believe that because my daughter and I talk about how she feels openly and because my sister-in-law is helping, most of the time my daughter is not disappointed or disengaged. However, this is an on going risk that I have to manage. Given how I was treated when I was kid, I think that provided that you can articulate how you feel and put the experiences in context, it doesn't have to be a case of replication. But its a worrying risk.

This might be totally irrelevant OP but it's such odd behaviour from your wife, I thought I'd put this forward.

I was without doubt depressed after I had DC2 (probably before too) and unable to admit it. I tried with stbxh but he was so convinced I was a great mum he never heard me. I started feeling more and more like an inadequate mum, then for lots of (other) reasons our relationship came to an end. In the short period before we separated (6 months) I would always duck out of family activities believing my DC were far better off with ex than their crap mother.

I let him have them every weekend after separating because I thought he was so much better. I was such a failure. Then as i started to recover i started to see how much my children needed me, and started to believe I could be a great mum again. I had a lot of help in that process. We are closer than ever, it's still not easy.

I wonder if any if that rings true? Might be irrelevant. But the "mumdad" thing sounds heartbreaking for mother and daughter.

Sorry to only post on this one point. I see you've had lots of helpful supportive replies.

Given that you're 'mumdad', why not make next year's Mother's Day about you and your daughter?

Who says a mother has to be female in this day and age? You are basically her mother - her nuturer.

This is so sad. For you, your DD and your wife.

I have a professional background in social work, psychology and antenatal/postnatal depression. I also have personal experience of trauma and domestic abuse.

Your wife is being emotionally abusive, towards both you & DD. You know you sound scared of her right?

She also sounds incredibly detached. Almost to a dissociative level that us related to trauma?

I am a mother of 3dc's and whilst I am physically present I also find myself emotionally absent sometimes and it scares the living daylights out of me. I work incredibly hard on myself and my parenting capacity to meet the needs of my children.

Your Wife's issuereally needs addressing professionally and you are your DD's protective factor so you need to be more assertive with your wife. She either addresses this emotional distance or she doesn't get shared care. You realise you can insist on this to safeguard your daughter? If you don't insist on it, you run the risk of failing to meet your daughters needs. You don't sound like you will take this risk.

Hi Gertrudeisgerman: " Your Wife's issuereally needs addressing professionally and you are your DD's protective factor so you need to be more assertive with your wife. She either addresses this emotional distance or she doesn't get shared care. You realise you can insist on this to safeguard your daughter". No I wasn't aware of this. I will seek further advice. I'm not scared, but I am wary of her. I will think about what you have said.

Thanks NancyWake, that made me smile.

Hi Yoshimihere. I'm sorry to hear you had depression and am glad to hear that you have made recovery and also have improved relationships with your children. I hope that one day my wife makes a recovery and learns to reach out more.

I wondered about depression and its possible that my wife may have been depressed. I've tried to be positive and encouraging and spend a fair bit of time cheering my brother and Dad up, both of whom suffer with depression (my brother's been on tablets before for it). However, my wife doesn't share her concerns with anyone as far as I know. I seem to end up counselling various friends and family, but somehow she regards those type of concerns or chats as nonsense. Until a person acknowledges a problem exists, it cannot be solved.

I don't think you should talk to the gp about counselling.

If (regardless of the circumstances) your daughter is doing okay then what's the point.

If she isn't doing okay due to the circumstances then it's up to you to change them. It's not ethical to ask a counsellor to help your daughter cope with something unacceptable but changeable.

Sorry OP. I didn't mean to suggest you are responsible for "solving" your wife's problems/depression. If anything I suspect you need to look after others less, your responsibility is to yourself and your daughter. I was just suggesting one possible reason for a mother to appear to be opting out of parenting.

As for my depression, it was very much linked to being in a relationship that wasn't working. I have no idea how you have lived as you are living for so long. It sounds torturous. I understand valueing security and continuity for your daughter but I think it's a dreadful mistake to think that is about the literal house you live in.

I wish you well.

If you, as a grown man, are wary of your wife you should magnify that x100 and you might be close to your daughters risk.

Although your wife doesn't sound like an immediate risk of significant harm to your daughter, her parenting capacity would cause concern for professionals. Poor attachment between a mother and child is a major indicator of poor outcomes in children. I would be really concerned that the emotional neglect your daughter would suffer 50% of the time (whilst not in your care) would impact significantly on her wellbeing and emotional health. It's not fair on your DD to be exposed to such an obvious lack of care from her mother. As her father, you really do need to protect her from this. Please don't pussy foot round your wife anymore.

Hi Gertrudeisgerman, my wife looks after my daughter less than 10% of the time. My sister in law works shifts and I can work from home allowing us to provide coverage for my daughter's care. My sister in law is very attentive as am I. My daughter's attainment, social skills and extra curricular activity is good. Her confidence is fairly high. Therefore, as my wife is mostly absent she is generally not asked to do any of the care.

For example, my sister-in-law plaits her hair, helps with her handwriting and reading. I assist, with art, music, maths and crafts projects as well as driving to gynmastics at the weekend + organsing sleep-overs or days out. I also cook, and get my daughter involved in cooking or sewing (which I can also do a bit having learned at school). As mentioned on an earlier post, whilst I have some limitations that are met by my sister-in-law, I can do some of the mother's role. Including science, chats about social problems, nature in the world around us, creativity, stories, , practical problem solving etc.

If my wife was responsible for 50% of my daughters care (which she is not). I would be concerned. As she is not (and in practice never likely to be) responsible for 50% of her care and if my sister-in-law and I were not performing the mother's role, then I would agree, that a significantly poorer outcome would likely occur.

I guess that's why the factor you mention is an indicator rather than a determining factor.

That said, I really value the point that you have raised. But please note, that I have broad skills. Thanks for commenting. I wish you all the best.

I am orgainsing an amicable divorce and negotiating a shared childcare arrangment (although this sometimes concerns me a little, given my ex's hands off approach to childcare). I know I can achieve much more by negotiation than making an argument over these problems.

THIS ^ is what I was referring to. Not what is happening currently, as I said you are a protective factor at home at the moment.

If you were to continue to persue a shared childcare arrangement knowing that your wife has no parenting capacity to meet your child's needs then as a professional I would be questioning you. Hence why I said you need to be more assertive with your wife. If you are concerned about shared care put your foot down and negotiate a better arrangement! You might be wary of your wife but don't let this wariness or reluctance to stand up for yourself or your daughter mean that your daughter is left open to emotional abuse.

Hi Gertrudeisgerman, I've been thinking about what you said. To clarify, we are discussing childcare directly with each other and not through solicitors. So I understand that there will therefore be no written formal arrangement. Given that care is shared flexibly, I do not believe there will in fact be any change in real terms to how child care occurs.

The text that I wrote, does not make this clear.

I've resolved lots of arguments with other people at work, counselled my dad, brother, friends. Watched arguments and tempers flare. Had impassioned debates where we reached a consensus or agreed to differ. But I've not been very effective at discussing things with my wife very often, because as she says, she does not like to discuss things.

On the basis, of your concern, I will try again to query my wife's behaviour and discuss it with her. A strong challenge won't work as she will stop talking and walk away. She is rarely at home during waking hours in any case. I think I will see if I can get some help and professional advice.

As stated, the last time I flagged this, no further action was deemed necessary. But maybe another professional would have a different opinion.

I'd rather not be too sure of myself, that I make the wrong decision.

Thanks

Actually talking about this on Mumsnet helps me get perspective on this. So I'm really glad I posted.

Thanks all.