Husband emotionally cold towards the kids

[Jessie1980]

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Today 07:31 Jessie1980

Hi there
This is my first post, I hope.it won't be too much of a ramble! I really don't know what to do. I've been married for 6 years and together for 8, we have a Ds 5 and Dd 3, both great kids. People always comment on how well behaved they are, polite etc.
When Ds came.along I'm sure I had pnd but didn't recognise at the time and so just got on with it, had a horrendous labour and had felt terrible after it all. Anyway, dh found it difficult too and I was told he didn't 'get' babies and they were alien to him so because of that I didn't expect anything from him, I got no emotional support and if he was left in charge of them he'd just go for a.walk so they were in the buggy, or go out in the car. I always wondered was it so he didn't have to interact with them.
Anyway I let it all go and thought it would all be fine when they were up and running around talking. They are 5 and 3 now and if anything, it's gotten worse. He has a low tolerance towards them, he is constantly at them to say please and thank you if they forget just once (they are good at saying it) and the most recent is if they say 'i won't as in a drink or something, he bellows 'its not want, it's I would like'! But everywhere we go to family etc, they are asked, what do you want to.drink, what do you want to eat. I can see it being confusing as to why they aren't allowed to say this word they have been taught but everyone else is!
He never praises them or offers encouragement, he only started telling them he loved them a few.months ago after me questioning him as to why he didn't. If they try to tickle him, they are told he is not ticklish and to stop it as it's annoying. He never comforts them if they are upset, he never apologises to me or them. He hurt Ds but running into his heel with the buggy when we were on holiday and cut him, blamed Ds for it who was in front and didn't see him! He was crying and his father just stared at him with a blank expression and I asked was he not going to apologise and he just glared at him.
I could go on all day. Dh works away for 6 weeks at a time, he's just home 1.5 weeks and I have had.enough of it all. The kids certainly aren't.babies now.so what is the issue. He is more loving towards me and the dogs and he gives the impression the kids are an inconvenience to him although he tells me.thats rubbish.
I have told him how I feel yet again last week and how I'm not willing to put up with it any longer. He won't see any sort of councillor and doesn't see any issue with our marriage or the way he treats the kids, looks at me like I'm making it up when I list what he does or doesn't do to them.
He won't talk, I.am.met with a brick wall or like I am attacking him when I try to talk.
He has however started making more of an effort with the kids since I talked to him. He greets them in the morning and actually speaks to them rather than walking past without even a hello. He has stopped being on their backs for little things and yesterday I came home from work (I work from home but work away 1 day a week) yesterday and found they had made pancakes (he has never done this before).
So he is trying but he won't talk and he has just said I want to change who he is as a person and if I'm not happy it's my choice if I want to leave. Like there is.no.fight to save our marriage. He says he feels I have rubbished all he has done for us as a family over the past 5 years and is sad to think I don't want to be with him.anymore.
I feel enormous guilt now for making him.feel like this. I can't help but feel the effort he is making with the kids will be shortlived as we have been here many times before and I feel I have a lot of resentment towards him.that has built up over the years. I do love him and I believe he cares for me and the kids. He provides financially and would do anything for us but is not there emotionally. I just don't know what I want to do from here.

Thanks in advance for any replies!

Username: Jessie1980

Subject:

Husband emotionally cold towards the kids

Message:

Hi there
This is my first post, I hope.it won't be too much of a ramble! I really don't know what to do. I've been married for 6 years and together for 8, we have a Ds 5 and Dd 3, both great kids. People always comment on how well behaved they are, polite etc.
When Ds came.along I'm sure I had pnd but didn't recognise at the time and so just got on with it, had a horrendous labour and had felt terrible after it all. Anyway, dh found it difficult too and I was told he didn't 'get' babies and they were alien to him so because of that I didn't expect anything from him, I got no emotional support and if he was left in charge of them he'd just go for a.walk so they were in the buggy, or go out in the car. I always wondered was it so he didn't have to interact with them.
Anyway I let it all go and thought it would all be fine when they were up and running around talking. They are 5 and 3 now and if anything, it's gotten worse. He has a low tolerance towards them, he is constantly at them to say please and thank you if they forget just once (they are good at saying it) and the most recent is if they say 'i won't as in a drink or something, he bellows 'its not want, it's I would like'! But everywhere we go to family etc, they are asked, what do you want to.drink, what do you want to eat. I can see it being confusing as to why they aren't allowed to say this word they have been taught but everyone else is!
He never praises them or offers encouragement, he only started telling them he loved them a few.months ago after me questioning him as to why he didn't. If they try to tickle him, they are told he is not ticklish and to stop it as it's annoying. He never comforts them if they are upset, he never apologises to me or them. He hurt Ds but running into his heel with the buggy when we were on holiday and cut him, blamed Ds for it who was in front and didn't see him! He was crying and his father just stared at him with a blank expression and I asked was he not going to apologise and he just glared at him.
I could go on all day. Dh works away for 6 weeks at a time, he's just home 1.5 weeks and I have had.enough of it all. The kids certainly aren't.babies now.so what is the issue. He is more loving towards me and the dogs and he gives the impression the kids are an inconvenience to him although he tells me.thats rubbish.
I have told him how I feel yet again last week and how I'm not willing to put up with it any longer. He won't see any sort of councillor and doesn't see any issue with our marriage or the way he treats the kids, looks at me like I'm making it up when I list what he does or doesn't do to them.
He won't talk, I.am.met with a brick wall or like I am attacking him when I try to talk.
He has however started making more of an effort with the kids since I talked to him. He greets them in the morning and actually speaks to them rather than walking past without even a hello. He has stopped being on their backs for little things and yesterday I came home from work (I work from home but work away 1 day a week) yesterday and found they had made pancakes (he has never done this before).
So he is trying but he won't talk and he has just said I want to change who he is as a person and if I'm not happy it's my choice if I want to leave. Like there is.no.fight to save our marriage. He says he feels I have rubbished all he has done for us as a family over the past 5 years and is sad to think I don't want to be with him.anymore.
I feel enormous guilt now for making him.feel like this. I can't help but feel the effort he is making with the kids will be shortlived as we have been here many times before and I feel I have a lot of resentment towards him.that has built up over the years. I do love him and I believe he cares for me and the kids. He provides financially and would do anything for us but is not there emotionally. I just don't know what I want to do from here.

Thanks in advance for any replies!

Hi Jessie

Is he on the oil rigs or similarly employed?.

Regardless of the amount of time he has been at home he has treated his children and in turn you very poorly indeed. He being nice for just one day with them on his return is really awful and then reverts to type. Nothing is really ever good enough for him; he likely learnt all this from his parents.

If another poster was asking what you have yourself written, what would your replies read like?.

Why do you live so remote; was that mainly his idea for instance to move there to be closer to his place of work?. The three of you seem very isolated even though you do try and get out and take the children to social things. The fact that some days you do not see another adult to talk to is also concerning.

Don't care if he doesn't have angry outburst towards the kids; he's chipping away at their wellbeing constantly; he's basically chipping away at their personalities and turning them into fearful little people; fuck that; put them first, always.

Do you call him out on his constant criticism at the time if you feel it is unwarranted? Your children can't answer their father back so if he is treating them unfairly/coldly then you are the one who will have to step in for them.

To me it doesn't matter how many arguments it causes between my OH and I. My child deserves no less than a loving father and if he cannot provide even the very basics then I'd leave.

You said you despair when you watch other men happy loving and attentive with their own children.. how long will it be before it is your children watching other men and thinking why isn't my daddy like that with me? That's when you may start to risk them blaming themselves.

Does he understand what he's actually doing? He thinks he's helping to bring up polite well behaved kids. He's not.
He wants a couple of timid kids who think it's best to be glued to a couch and sit quietly.
He's stifling them and needs to know what he's actually doing.

LiveLifeWithPassion - he believes he is doing no wrong, he wants them to be mannerly and polite and i actually believe he doesnt see it. My cousin who is male but has no kids sees it like H is an adult and DS is just a boy and is below him so will do as he says.

H also says, he just wants the kids to do what is asked of them, the first time they are asked.

Cross posted whilst you updated. If his attitude is hostile rather tahn distant that that is very different.He appears to show no insight and such little empathy. Could Aspergers be a factor? It doesn't change the situation but ime it confirms that all your energy trying to influence him will be wasted. I've learnt that lesson from 5 exhausting years. Aspergers can make people very self centred and have black and white thinking.

My guess is he only invests his love when he feels he gets something back. It is horribly damaging to children to be criticised especially infront of people as you add shame into the mix.

It may be an exaggeration but Dr Phil said it takes 1000 "well dones" to repair "you're an idiot". Can you really address the damage he does?

I don't think he needs counselling, as why he does this is less important than fixing it. From my experience (of stbxh) the lack of insight and willingness to take on board feedback from a partner means you will not be able to change this. His ego will protect his own image of himself..he would rather end the marriage than be prepared to accept feedback that he might mean he's has to look at areas where he's not doing as well. He is keen to keep the agenda on what he does well..earn money, cuts the grass etc

It is not a measure of your value or loveability so don't feel it's your failure.

He has been told to 'get with it' in the past by another member of my family as he hates DD 3 wearing any nail varnish or wanting make up on (playing). He also drums it into DS that boys dont like pink etc.

He is very much a black and white person, its either okay or its not, he doesnt see things from other peoples point of view very easily, he's very rigid in his way of thinking.

My Dad was like this. We hated him and hid whenever he was home.
It messed us up and I'm now in counselling.
I also have issues with my Mum stemming from why she didn't stick up for us more.

Please put your kids first. Even before him and you.

Hermonie2016 - funny you mention Aspergers. I came across an article last week about fathers with Apergers and so much rang true. As i started reading up on it, it seemed to explain SO much. I sent him the article to read but was told he didnt think much of it and none of it rang true for him. He turned it around to say i was diagnosing him after reading one article and wasnt up for exploring it any further.

Chasingapinkball - thanks for posting, to hear it from someone who has been through it confirms to me there is really only one thing i can do. THe last thing I want is my kids messed up and i know i am the one in control of their future and their happyness in their home.

I don't want to be harsh or upset you but honestly the way he was has shaped me as a person.
Even down to me not being a affectionate to my husband because it was never taught to me to be like that.
I can rationalise it now and we have a friendly relationship now, after a lot of work from both sides. He's really had to change and make a hell of a lot of effort because we literally had no relationship at all other than him being the financial provider.
It's turned out ok but we'll never ever have a "normal" close father/child relationship and that's a real shame. I feel sad about that.

I really really wish my mum had been stronger and stuck up for us. It kinda feels like she didn't for an easy life - sacraficing us for herself.

It's actually seen as a type of abuse now.
He's emotionally neglectful.
Luckily your kids have you and will see your strength and will learn from that.

He says he feels I have rubbished all he has done for us as a family over the past 5 years

Being a family is much much more than just providing financially. He isn't meeting any of the basic needs of your children.

Apart from earning money what exactly has he done? Does he get up at night? Does he cuddle them and read stories? Does he cook their tea and feed them, does he bath them and put them to bed, mop up their sick when they're ill and give them medicine? Take them to school and birthday parties? Or is it simple a case of, well I've earned the money what more do you want?

Read back what you've written. He called your DD 'it' his own daughter. Your DS thinks he is rubbish because of how DH makes him feel, they have to ask permission to play with him. How do you think this is going to affect them long term?

Children always love their parents, no matter what happens. Even children who are abused love their parents. It isn't a reason to continue.

What was his relationship like with his own parents growing up?
He sounds so clueless that I'm wondering if there was any parental role-models at all?

AnoiseAnnoysanOyster - "Apart from earning money what exactly has he done? Does he get up at night? Does he cuddle them and read stories? Does he cook their tea and feed them, does he bath them and put them to bed, mop up their sick when they're ill and give them medicine? Take them to school and birthday parties? Or is it simple a case of, well I've earned the money what more do you want?"
No he has never got up at night to either of them, and i stopped hoping to be offered the chance of a long lie some mornings, he only reads them a bedtime story on the rare occasion he puts them to bed, but he's happy to stay quiet and let me bath and bed them. If i complain, then i am told i only need to ask him to put them to bed, or get up with them in the morning. I shouldnt need to ask IMO. DS asked for a story one afternoon to be told he only gets stories at bedtime!! He will make them lunch or dinner if i am not here but he has to ask me what to make them. I am self employed, just part time hours which suits me fine but I go to a clients office to work one day a week, on that day i have to have the kids ready for nursery as well as get myself ready for work, he saunters in and sees to himself and is then usually running late to get them there anyway.

He is away to a soft play centre with the kids this afternoon, he's meeting his dad there. When DS heard i was not going, his reposnse was "oh why mum, its much more fun if you come too" :(

Dieu - his mother had an affair so he hasnt much time for her, shes pretty selfish and self absorbed. He has a load of respect for his father, although i see things his father does with the kids that makes my blood boil too. Like telling DS at 3 years old that boys dont cry. I'm starting to think / realise that maybe his whole family are messed up too! His brother and sister are happy go lucky individuals though and his brother has a wee boy that he dotes on. He is also great with our kids when he visits.

Hi Jessie,

This is why I asked you about his parents; we after all learn about relationships first and foremost from them. Look at the rubbish your H learnt from both his parents.

He cannot even take his children to the soft play on his own; he has to have another adult like his dad with him. Did you ever say anything to your FIL about that "boys don't cry" comment?. Probably not but fumed instead. Your DH would not have backed you up anyway.

As I mentioned before you have a choice re this man, your children do not. Think carefully as well about what sort of relationship you want with your children going forward. They are not going to say thanks mum to you for staying with him are they?.

It didn't take long after I met OH for him to ask me how I would feel about having more children (I had two, he had none). I was in my late 30s, his in his early 40s, so was over the moon. We tried but unfortunately it never happened. Looked at IVF etc... but in the end, he's the one who said that he wasn't sure he wanted to be a father after all.

8 years later and I think 'thank god'! I adore him and would never want not to be with him, but as the years have gone by, I realised that he really doesn't like kids.

He did say to me that he has never felt interested by children who he just find annoying but he had hoped that he would feel different towards his own children. Looking back, I do think that he would have been a protecting father who would genuinely have loved children of ours, but I don't think he would have enjoyed interacting with them much when little and indeed, I am certain that he would have had a very low threshold tolerance over noise and manners.

It's not uncommon for men to not enjoy the company of children at all and only tolerate that of their own. That doesn't mean he doesn't love them though and most likely would be the first to fight a fire in the house to go and save them. It also usually gets better when they get older and they can share activities they enjoy and can relate to.

Your OH is making efforts, don't undermine them and don't expect too much from him, hopefully it will just get better with time. The best thing to do is indeed to give them as much time of their own as possible as it is with increasing forced interaction with them that the bond will get stronger.

AttillaTheMeerkat - thanks, yes i think i really need to make a decision, talking to you all on this forum has really helped. I just needed to know i am doing the right thing (even although deep down i've been thinking about it for ages).

swingofthings - i know men can find it difficult, he always stated he wanted kids, now i wonder if he just said it so i would marry him. He didnt want another after DS but didnt want DS growing up as an only child, he really didnt want a daughter but hoped DD was going to be one as he thought i'd want another if i had another boy. DD was hardly here and he was talking about getting the snip so there were no accidents in the future.

I know he is making an effort now, but how long will it last, we have been here many times and i've given him plenty chances to make more effort, it has always been shortlived. I dont see how more time spent with a parent who constantly lets you know what you do isnt good enough and can never praise you when you do a good job can be healthy for the kids. Maybe it will make his bond stronger with them but i fear it will be at the expense of the childrens mental health. I used to wonder why DS was biting his nails constantly and would have spells of wetting the bed when his dad came home. (Luckily we got past that stage) It all makes sense now.

Jessie I could have written a lot of what you have word for word, the difference being that I didn't realise the full extent of the emotional damage my STBXH was inflicting on my DD until she was a lot older than your DC.

She is now receiving therapy from CAMHS, is in more or less constant low-level trouble at school, and despite being funny, bright and beautiful has little to no self esteem and currently seems to be on a mission to self-destruct.

I believe the impact he's had on DD's emotional well-being may well be irreparable, but in his eyes, despite the fact that she loathes him and doesn't want any contact whatsoever, he has done his duty as a father because he's "always provided financially".

I blame myself for failing to protect her and am living with the consequences. Please don't make the same mistake that I did.

Men can want to have children in that they like the idea of being a father but that doesn't forcibly mean they like being around young kids, even their own. What you say about not wanting another one but agreeing so that DS wouldn't be an only child and then talking about the snip would indicate that this is indeed the case with your OH.

The question is whether it is such an issue that it justifies dissolving your marriage. Could it be that between him and you, you are actually showing a good balance of parenting. Asking your kids to say 'I would like' rather than 'I want' doesn't make you a horrible parent, and if they get plenty of positive attention and reassurance from you, then maybe they can benefit from his more rigorous ways?

I don't think it is right to assume that your kids MH will be seriously affected by it, at least not until they actually exhibit some signs that this is the case. You also need to balance this against the impact of growing up in a single parent family. You say that the stage of wetting the bed and biting nails has gone, so maybe it is not as bad as you think (and of course, maybe this was not, or not only, a direct outcome of his dad behaviour.

I think with him making some efforts, the fact that he will likely find it easier to bond with the kids as they get older, it might be very much premature to consider leaving him if this is the only issue.

JohnnyMarr - how old is your daughter if you dont mind me asking? I have just noticed this week, my DS responding to his sister in a way i think he is learning from his dad. He is such a caring little boy and always has been and suddenly there is this coldness creeping in at times.

I'm so sorry for you and your daughter, its a horrible situation to be in, to everyone else it looks like we are a happy family unit. I think even DH hought this. How did you STBXH react when you approached the subject? Did you give him lots of chances to change?

swingofthings - its the way he says it though. It's like having Hitler in the house when he is home. I am not a soft touch with the kids but he is the extreme.

I think it shows it is having an effect on them when they have little self esteem and confidence. Every dealing he has with them is on the hard side, he has had my DD so upset with his rulings and way he deals with a situation that she has been sick a few times and he acts like he doesnt care.

She was upset at me going to work last week, he ignored her until she was sobbing so hard she couldnt catch her breath. He told her she was stuck with him and to go pat the dog and that would make her feel better. He didnt cuddle her, or make an effort to console her. It's teh way he always is with them.

Ummm, that does a bit extreme indeed. I guess it's a vicious circle. The less time he has with them on his own (working away, him not begging for it!) the less he is going to feel what makes us parents love to be with our kids, even when we think that we would rather be reading a quiet book in the garden rather than painting with them.

You say that in the end, they had a good time together when you were working making pancakes, so it sounds like he is capable of it. I think you should encourage him to do more activity like this with them without you, whilst continuing to pick him up when he is being really unfair.

DD is 14 now, tbh the older she's got the worse their relationship has become as, as with most teenagers, she has become less compliant and he continued to demand her respect without actually doing anything to earn it. He is also all too quick to criticise even the most minor of misdemeanours, yet dismissive of positives and reluctant to offer any praise.

We have had countless conversations regarding his treatment of the DC but despite brief improvements there has never been any consistency to his efforts. We first separated (temporarily) two years ago and DD has recently told me that he told her his decision to leave was her fault. Unforgivable.

Feel free to PM if I can be of any help, though clearly I'm not a parenting role model to aspire to

She was upset at me going to work last week, he ignored her until she was sobbing so hard she couldnt catch her breath. He told her she was stuck with him and to go pat the dog and that would make her feel better. He didnt cuddle her, or make an effort to console her

Jesus Christ, you do know he's emotionally abusing your kids, it's actually disgusting me; are you going to protect them or not?

Is all about him, fucken bully.

The only problem with that is that I am constantly stepping in and undermining him (as he says). It makes me deeply unhappy seeing how.emotionally detached someone can be to their own kids. He speaks to the dogs in a nicer tone than he uses for the kids, what does that teach them? And he treats other people's kids nicer than his own to. We were away with a friend of mine and their kids. The girl 5, had her legs sprawled over him and sitting on his knee etc, I couldn't help but watch with disappointment for our own daughter watching that.
I think there has been such an accumulation of things over the years that it's come to a head and I'm past the stage of bending over backwards to try to help him.become a better father when he can only.make an effort after a bust up between us.