Am I being unreasonable?

[Glenoxo]

I really need some other opinions on something to see whether or not I'm being unreasonable. I don't want to hear an echo chamber - if you really think I'm asking too much please let me know! I'm conscious of my own feelings and natural bias, so external opinions will help.

I recently found out my wife has had an affair with someone she works with (if you want the somewhat horrific details take a peek at www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2839656-Just-found-out-my-wife-has-cheated-on-me). She has said she has broken it off with him, but they still sit next to each other every day at work. I know they have been out at least once after work (on Valentines Day of all days "to talk about his feelings") and suspect that they still spend time talking as friends throughout the day.

I don't know whether we can make it work, nor whether I want to, but after 18 years and four children I feel like I need to at least try to save our marriage. She has said the same and wants to try (or at least feels she has got to try), though is not yet doing or saying the things I'd like her to (though that's for a different thread perhaps).

So far I've not really made any demands, other than she breaks off all contact with him. She has (somewhat reluctantly) deleted him from Facebook, but still has his mobile number and still laughs and jokes with him as part of their team at work.

I have told now her that we cannot move forward while they work together, so effectively there are three options. Either he leaves his job, she leaves hers or we call it a day and start divorce proceedings. It's simply too painful for me, and leads me to constantly be wondering what she is doing at any point throughout the day.

She loves her job and is getting good at it - it's the first full-time job she's had since our eldest was born 12 years ago and she's (obviously) revelling in the freedom and more adult environment. I don't want her to leave, but I simply cannot bear the thought of them continuing to work together, every day, in the building where things happened between the two of them. She also wants to keep going out as part of their work team for drinks after work every now and then - there's just no way I can ever be comfortable with them doing that after all she's done.

I will happily find her a new job if he won't leave his, and if she has to have time out of work while she finds a new one even that is okay (it costs more in childcare than she earns, meaning I am effectively subsidising her working).

She doesn't feel like she can ask him to leave his job. From my perspective, he is a 20-year-old boy who lives at home and could do any number of other things - he is not tied in at all, other than wanting to start working.

I am due to climb Everest (well, at least get to Base Camp), returning 19 May. I've given her until I get back to have either stopped working with him or to have made an active decision to continue there. That's four months since being caught, and two and a half months from now to have handed in her notice and to start finding something new (if she chooses to go down that route).

Am I wrong to ask her to stop working with him in order to give our marriage a try?

Im not sure you have anything to loose at this point by starting to prepare for divorce. Find a solicitor you are comfortable with etc. Work out a schedule. Encourage her to look for a room. Try separation for size. She's lost nothing so far has she. Not even her pride. Not a speck of shame.

Glen, sorry to read what's been going on for you. The fact that she is sitting next to the 20 year old who still lives at home (wtf!) every day is a killer. I'm surprised in some ways you haven't popped round to introduce yourself to his family!

You got some great advice on your previous post from men who have been through this and are coming out the other side, happier and have gained their self respect. I'd highly suggest you do the same rather than trying to solve all the problems in your marriage basically alone whilst your wife is likely snogging on park benches during her lunch break and planning what she can get up to whilst you are climbing mountains, literally and figuratively.

You ate being mugged off and totally humiliated

What exactly is there to work with here ?

You are being played like a violin, OP.

she has said that she wouldn't be looking at doing that. She would initially look at getting a room in a shared house and would then work things out from there.

This speaks volumes. She doesn't want to split because she's just unhappy or "love you but not in love" or whatever other cliched bollocks she comes out with.

She's had her head turned and is imagining her new single life with a parade of new young lover boys, and best of all she gets to send them all home to their mums afterwards and doesn't have to do boring shit with them.

If you google mid-life crisis script, she's pretty much following it slavishly. Although at 35 she's a bit early. Did you get together very young? I imagine part of her rationale is "I never got a chance to sow my wild oats..."

Get up off the floor. You're not a doormat. You'll be okay without her. The kids will be okay as long as you remain supportive and facilitate their relationship with her.

It must take hella guts to climb Everest. Use them to take the next step. You already know in your heart what it needs to be.

18 years. So you've basically been her only partner.

Yup, she wants to play the field.

I'm a couple of years younger than your wife and did all the shared house/shagging boys stuff in my teens and twenties. Man, am I grateful to now have a lovely husband, kids and a house. The boring stuff doesn't seem so boring when you've seen the grottiness and headfuckery of single life on not much money. There's the nights out but there's the hangovers too- literally and metaphorically. Essentially I think she's got it too good because she's not dancing losing any of her life and lifestyle at the moment. Play hard ball. Make her face the reality of losing you all and the life you've created together.

I think you may come over as a bit "bossy" OP. Im sure actually you are a pretty supportive person and it may be just the way you framed things. You sound like a bit of an action "doer" -- and probably not very laid back. Maybe she has mentally moved on and no longer likes you "enough" to make it work. To be honest if your wife was mortified and remorseful and mega embarrased, I think in your current financial position she would have handed her notice in if she valued the marriage that much and then looked for another role. The fact she has not means I think she is maybe in a bit too deep mentally with this young guy to totally go NC and end it at the moment as you would like. I think you should suggest a separation sadly and then see how it goes.

Another thing to think about, the family money (ie you to put it factually) is currently funding her career.

She seems to be good at what she does so she will earn more and more. What happens when she earns enough to rent or buy her own place? She walks.

I bet you several bottles of your favourite tipple that one of the mains reason she is telling you she wants to say is that her life will be a shit load easier if she does.

And because of her affair you are keeping her at arms length sexually which probably suits her down to the ground.

All I would say is dont be too stubborn to admit there is nothing worth saving. (Oh and agree with pl. - you waffle too much )

Too add re her career, its all family money so of course the familty money pays the childcare etc and in the long term her career helps the family, even if she does leave. But she has motive to stay which may not be you personally.

Yet again double standards abound here. Ultimately, the woman had an affair, and post affair she has gone crawling back to her husband but is refusing to give up the friendship with the OM, and the OP is getting a hard time? Presumably because he is a man?

OP this is very simple. Ultimately, many affairs are not black and white, and many affairs are the symptom not the cause of a marriage breakdown and happen because of issues in the marriage. But what happens in those instances is that when the affair is discovered, the couple will usually work together to work out the issues in the marriage, and more relevant, if the affair is merely symptomatic and the marriage is beyond repair, the person having the affair will walk away from the marriage anyway.

And how do I know? Because I had an affair which came about while I was in an emotionally abusive marriage, and it made me see that I needed to leave and that I could do better in life, and deserved better. My husband didn't find out about the affair until it had ended, however at that point he would have done anything to get me to stay and work on the marriage. He even admitted his part in the breakdown of the marriage before the affair. But the truth was that the affair for me was a symptom not a cause of the breakdown of my marriage, and having had the affair, I realised that I could no longer stay in the marriage, even though there was no-one for me to leave to go to.

Had I wanted to save my marriage I would have moved heaven and earth to do so. The fact I had no desire to do so was just another confirmation for me that the marriage was over and I needed to leave. Because actually, I still felt the remorse over the affair. I still wanted it over with, and I still wanted to move forward in my life having moved away from all parties, both my husband and the OM. Having an affair is the most regrettable thing I have ever done, and I can hand on heart say I would never do it again.

Your wife however is doing all the opposite things to this. She's saying she wants to stay in the marriage but she also wants to maintain contact with the OM. Going out on Valentines? Seriously? It's one thing to have to work with him on a daily basis, but it's quite another to still have him as part of her social circle.

Don't give her ultimatums. Tell her that the relationship is over and that you'll be filing for divorce. Go and find a decent solicitor and seek legal advice. If she genuinely wants to stay to make the marriage work, her reaction will tell you that. but at the moment she's having her cake and eating it because while she doesn't want to stay in the marriage she doesn't want to leave her comfortable setup either. Believe me single parent to four kids isn't going to be an easy life, and she very likely knows that.

If she wants to make the marriage work she will give up the OM without being told to. She will find another job because working with him will be something she doesn't even want to contemplate. But she needs to make those moves for herself, not be told to. So if she does do all those things and you still want to try and work things out, then go and seek some marriage counselling and move forward from there. She will need to be transparent though. However if she doesn't offer any of those things then carry on with the divorce and move on with your own life.

I remember your last thread too Glen and I am even more sure now (if that were even possible) that this marriage is dead and buried.

I know you didn't want to report the relationship at work, but what she did was disgusting and I'm not sure you should be protecting her from the consequences. She showed no respect to you, or to the professional boundaries between an apprentice and someone in that apprentice's reporting line. It doesn't sound like anything's really improved so I think you'd be best calling it a day.

She's a self-centred cheat and doesn't deserve your time or emotional commitment. You'll feel better (honestly) once she's out of your life.

Has anyone actually stood up for the wife here?

You mean the 35 yo wife with 4dc who fucked her 20 yo apprentice?

Who texted the OP to tell him she was going to do it because she needed to get it out of her system and then told him she'd stayed the morning to fuck the kid guy again? Who won't stop meeting him (including on Valentines Day) but who tells OP she wants to make a go of it (whilst making no efforts to distance herself from the OM)?

Is it THAT wife we should be defending?

Don't forget the wife who wants to leave her kids and set up in a house share like a student.

You misinterpreted me. I'm not defending her. I just wondered whether we're all 100% TeamGlen on this thread. That's all.

Seems we are. Is this a Mumsnet first ?

Probably

I appreciate that you want to keep your family together
But
This is ridiculous.
Please stick up for and look after yourself.
I'm embarrassed for her.
A 20 year old.
Jesus.
Let her crack on with her mid life crisis in peace.
She begrudgingly deletes him on Facebook when she sits beside him everyday.
She has lost touch with what is normal and acceptable.
Let her do that on her own time, not yours.

I know this thread is old now, but I've just read all three of your threads.

You said: Why do I feel like people are intentionally misreading words rather than meaning?!

Yes, unfortunately some people do. I got flamed on one of my threads for using the wrong words. Instead of the sentiment they focused on the 'wrong' words I used and the whole thing turned into a personal attack on me! It got so bad I had to ask MNHQ to delete the thread.

But on the whole, people on MN are lovely and very supportive.

Your dw is definitely in the wrong. But you do come across as controlling with finding her a job and subsidising her working. That would be a red flag for me in a relationship. They are your children too.

You are subsidising her working.Leave her

I think the relationship is dead. You describe yourself as super husband and super dad. I wonder if that's the reality though. You have 4 kids and she's only just recently gone back to work so I'd hazard a guess that she did the brunt of childcare and housework for over a decade. Growing and looking after 4 kids isn't a part time job, it's full on. You managed to also find time for all these things as well as work full time.. a full time job that pays enough to fund a big family.

You don't have a high opinion of her... calling her a dreamer, unambitious, preferring to watch box sets . Maybe she's found someone who thinks of her as more than that. He may be a kid, but it has made her realise that your opinion of her isn't necessarily the truth or someone who can see more in her than you can.

I don't know. You come across here as super perfect (according to you) but it'd be interesting to hear her point of view, especially as it sounds unlikely that someone who works full time and has duties that take him out of the home a few times a week and has had a sahm and has 4 kids really has taken on a greater role of childcare and housework than his sahm wife.

She has always been the same in terms of who she is as a person - someone who isn't a dreamer, doesn't have hobbies or interests outside of tv boxsets and more recently her work. She never understood my interest in public life, but (I thought) always saw how happy it made me so put up with it.
OP, just because she enjoyed quiet, solitary things, doesn't mean she should have to 'put up' with things she doesn't agree with. You away a lot, etc. Giving up work to care for kids for 10 years, while you go on jaunts abroad etc. Getting a job because you feel she should, which you apparently 'subsidise'. I am in no way condoning her having an affair, but can see how she might have felt this was a breath of freedom, as her life does sound rather shaped by you to fit in with your best interests. I do agree with a lot of what annesmyth said.

I don't think you are helping yourself with ultimatums. I would bet she still feels you are being controlling and is possibly quietly rebelling against this. Have you asked her what she would see as the possible options if the tables were turned? She may see it more clearly and certainly up with a plan of action which you can both agree on. I really don't think expecting her to have resigned while you are off on a jolly is going to work. I imagine in her mind you are pleasing yourself, why shouldn't she?

Get a lawyer. Get rid of her.