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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Stock phrases for dealing with narcissists

64 replies

Helpmybrainsmelting · 28/02/2017 16:00

Is there a place where there is a library of phrases for dealing with narcissists? I just thought it could be useful to have all the "armour" in one easy to find place without other talk?

I find that I pick up on good phrases in the stately homes thread but then when I need to revise them I can't find anything (probably because I'm stressing!).

OP posts:
picklemepopcorn · 02/03/2017 08:25

Oh dear!
What a shame!
Really?
I wonder why?
Maybe next time.
Sorry but I just need to go to the loo/answer the door/stop the dog chewing the sofa/help DC in the toilet...
Oh, I didn't realise.
I'm sorry you feel let down.
I'm sorry you didn't have a good time.
I'm sorry you're so fed up.

All the 'I'm sorry's don't mean you did anything wrong- you are expressing sympathy that they had a bad time, not accepting blame.

picklemepopcorn · 02/03/2017 08:26

They really don't need you to put a lot of effort in, I don't think. Just make the right noise at the right time and they will do most of it themselves.

Original poster
Helpmybrainsmelting · 02/03/2017 08:27

Yes, now you've all said about not engaging I can definitely see that conflict is what they want, whether it's with me against another or at me. I can also thing of times I have just not engaged and they have got bored although I've also experienced blame for their aggressive behaviour towards me for not 'supporting them' when I have just not engaged with that behaviour!

It's very much starting to make sense to me now, they were angry because I wasn't giving them the attention they wanted and not agreeing with them. You are all great, your advice is really helping and I've been told how well I'm handling things now Smile

OP posts:
mysinkingheart · 02/03/2017 08:38

Hi op,
What saves me is an acronym for what not to do with high-conflict people/narcs : JADE (for don't Justify, Argue, Defend or Explain).
When you say "I have my own family to care for" that is an understandable explanation/justification to normal empathic people but to a narcissist it says "it's working, you're making me feel guilty and crap about myself" so they feed off that emotional hit of being able to manipulate you..

So "I'm/we're not available on that day" (full stop, no "can we find another date to suit".

But never followed by "because I have children to look after/responsibilities/am upset about the last time"..etc.

It can be hard to do because it's unnatural and for me anyway required being brave and forcing myself to get angry every time I felt guilty. Anger helps when you use it to disengage, to protect your DC. Flowers

Imbroglio · 02/03/2017 09:07

It's a nightmare. Reading this makes me realise I've just made some rookie mistakes, despite many years of experience.

Yes to grey rock.

Only respond to relevant aspects of the conversation. Mentally block the stuff thrown at you to distress / disorientate you.

Heatherjayne1972 · 02/03/2017 09:59

I'm not sure saying sorry is a good idea. as such people will tend to hear that as an admission that you were wrong ( and saying sorry) and by assumption they must be right
I find
Interesting
Mmm
Ok
Yes
No
Works quite well
Like others have said don't engage. Keep it to the point and remember it them not you

Imbroglio · 02/03/2017 11:51

I will most definitely say sorry if I think I have actually done something wrong, but NEVER to placate.

'I'm sad you feel that way' or 'I understand that you feel angry/hurt/whatever'. Then move on. They want us to feel responsible. We are not (usually!).

Deadsouls · 02/03/2017 12:12

JADE acronym is brilliant. I used this when I had to do mediation with a narc. As it turns out I let him blather on for 1.5 hrs and said nothing. Then he felt satisfied that both myself and the mediator had had to listen to him and complied with my wishes!
I learnt the hard way that trying to assert your point of view, or expressing feelings is just a high road to frustration and hurt as they do not listen or empathise. Everything you say will be turned back round. So best to say as little as possible.

Imbroglio · 02/03/2017 12:37

I've used 'That doesn't work for me' a couple of times.

CheersMedea · 02/03/2017 14:23

I'm not sure saying sorry is a good idea. as such people will tend to hear that as an admission that you were wrong ( and saying sorry) and by assumption they must be right

ROFL. People with NPD think that anyway!! Saying sorry is a method of placating them and supporting their ideation that they are perfect and right and you are worthless and wrong.

Unless you are talking about a "legal liability" situation (car crash/insurance) and not about trying to keep a narcissist happy, there is rarely a down side to being subservient, apologetic and nicey-nicey. Assuming that your goal is to stay in an operative relationship with the narcissist - as opposed to run for the hills which is what we all should do.

Imbroglio · 02/03/2017 15:22

I'm sure it depends on the situation and what your relationship is, how much you need to interact with them and what sort of issues.

For me, I think I'm just too emotional too say sorry for stuff that absolutely isn't my fault. The resentment would explode out of me in another way.

Deadsouls · 02/03/2017 15:53

Sometimes people have to stay in minimal contact cause they're co-parenting. I probably wouldn't say sorry. I'd phrase it differently.

MsGameandWatch · 02/03/2017 16:16

I think apologising brings more problems. They use it as a stick to beat you with forever "I still can't believe you did so and so and then you think an apology just makes everything ok? blah blah blah" they love that they "Got" you. I never apologise or admit anything, I just don't say anything to accusations, most of the time they don't notice as long as they get to keep berating you.

Hermonie2016 · 02/03/2017 16:21

Cheersmeda, just wondering if you have professional experience or just knowledge gained from dealing with a NPD person?

I'm just at the awakening of learning my stbxh is likely to be NPD.He was never outwardly angry for many years but very passive aggressive.The anger towards me seem to come when he started a new job which gave him more status and I was more dependant financially on him.
I am so struck by your analysis as I started to walk on eggshells around conversations like the restaurant one and didn't know why.You seemed to have nailed it.
Until very recently I have been trying to deal with separation assuming he was rational but I'm learning I have to change my approach.
Thanks so much for everyone for sharing ...it's lightbulb moments for me.

Pollyputhekettleon · 02/03/2017 16:38

Hermonie, is there any chance the new high-status job brought with it some shiny new adoration of the younger female work colleague variety? That also often results in inexplicable anger being directed at the old, now devalued, model at home.

Hermonie2016 · 02/03/2017 16:58

Yes, did think of OW but no one is appearing despite separation and he doesn't look like a man with shiny new woman! He's put on weight and looks terrible, friends are shocked at his appearance.
He was always lacking empathy but it seem to ramp up when I started to challenge him and put boundaries in place.Looking back he tended to get what he wanted but then I had a wake up call and started to assert myself....that's when anger came.If I always agreed with him, walked on eggshells, I think we might still be together!

OhBlissOhJoy · 02/03/2017 17:15

Well, I nearly didn't take my own grey rock advice today. I needed my lovely friend to talk me round and remind me that he wants the conflict so I managed to pull it back at the last minute.
I may have sworn, smoked and kicked things behind the scenes but as long as they don't know that!

ferriswheel · 02/03/2017 17:35

Place marking, unfortunately need this thread.

CheersMedea · 02/03/2017 18:38

Cheersmeda, just wondering if you have professional experience or just knowledge gained from dealing with a NPD person?

Mostly dealing with people w NPD but I have a couple of good friends who are psychiatrists that I've discussed this with at length!

Splishing · 02/03/2017 19:59

Hermione2016 I feel like I am reading about myself after reading your earlier post. I am also realising that my STBXH is/has always been a narcissist. It's scary that I couldn't see it until now. Think that part of the problem was he was a very clever one. He also changed after moving to a more high powered job and when I became a SAHM to facilite the move. In my case there was a much younger female worker (he is her manager) which he has since left me for. It really is like having the power and status has gone to his head. I feel such a fool that I couldn't see who he truly was during our 18 years together. My friends saw it when we first got together but are only telling me now we have split. He is also really difficult to deal with. Feel like he is trying to bully and blackmail me into things wrt separation agreement.

picklemepopcorn · 02/03/2017 20:04

No no no, don't say sorry for doing something, absolutely not.

Say it as an expression of sympathy-
sorry you feel ill.
Sorry you had a hard day.
Sorry your plan didn't work out.
Sorry you are fed up.

It's not your fault or responsibility. You are just letting them know you understand how bad they feel. Otherwise they have to keep showing you how awful their life is and that it's probably all your fault. A little sorry works nicely to appease without drawing the fire. Recognises that they are genuinely, though unreasonably, miserable/angry/upset,

OhBlissOhJoy · 02/03/2017 23:57

I don't want to derail your thread Help but thank you for posting because it has really helped me with a situation with my narc-ex that happened today that I reacted to instead of following my own grey rock advice.
I've re-read the thread many times this evening, have digested each post and have finally come up with a response after 12 hours of angry drafts that I am happy with.
Flowers to all of us that have to deal with these shitty non-people.

VodkaLimeSoda27 · 03/03/2017 04:18

Pulling up a chair to read this... Need to learn more about this grey rock technique for any minimal contact with MIL in the future. Just thinking about that particular shit show makes me glad I moved thousands of miles away!

mysinkingheart · 04/03/2017 13:48

Absolutely agree deadsouls JADE plus minimalist conversation, quite often no reply gets a lot more done. Let them think they have the upper hand, who cares? "Winning" isn't the goal (they believe they win when you engage), the aim us a peaceful life.
When you have to co-parent with one like I do, you have to play a long game for the DCs sake. If that means letting him/her feel vindicated, more exciting, dominant that's fine. I couldn't give a monkeys what my x thinks about me as long as kids are in a stable and conflict-free environment.

Grey rock is the only option I've found when NC is out. I just love it that I'm not interesting enough for him, it's a coping strategy and it works. He leaves me alone. Like not teasing trained to kill pitbulls.

picklemepopcorn · 04/03/2017 19:56

I've just seen some really poor behaviour from DM. She's always right, even when she is wrong. I'm forced to work quite closely with her at the moment, and it's a struggle.