You are choosing to feel that way

[NotMyChoiceTo]

I hate this phrase.

I kind if get the whole you can't control other people but you can control how you react thing.

But this seems a step further?

You are choosing to let them wind you up
You are choosing to let them upset you
You are choosing to feel that way

I feel like it dismisses my feelings, almost invalidates them? Struggling to articulate why it upsets me. When I said that I was told it wasn't invalidating my feelings?

It was always about small things, but niggled. And always to me.

It was then said to dc1 (ASD) last night (I wasn't home ). Dc got upset. I told dh (later when he was recounting) that dc was upset as he had invalidated his feelings on the situation. Dh said not.

This morning I was annoyed at dc1 being nasty to dc2. Dc 1 retaliated with dc2 was choosing to be upset about it, and I was choosing to be annoyed about it.

It feels like a stepping stone to abuse? To do what you want and discount the fall out as the person is 'choosing' to feel bad?

I can't quite articulate. But it is undermining me telling off Dc for being quite nasty to each other :(

Or am I over reacting?

Btw, you can tell them that you can't say 'stupid idiot!!' Because it's rude/dangerous wo going into the 'IT hurts people feelings' for a while.

(Firstly I should say I have no experience with ASD, so some of this might not work in that respect)

I teach my children "you can't always choose how you feel but you can always choose how you be behave"

So basically we feel the way we feel but that is never a free pass to bad behaviour.

So "I'm tired, feeling unwell, had a bad day" is never an acceptable excuse for being unkind or unpleasant to another member of the family.

In your example of your children fighting. My response is that we all choose how to behave and there are consequences to those decisions. So if you deliberately choose to wind your brother up and he yells at you in response, both parties have made poor decisions on behaviour but the child who initiated the behaviour will be in the most trouble. Because choosing to be deliberately unkind to someone is never OK.

The rule hold for adults too, I might say to the kids "I've had a dreadful day and I have a terrible headache so I need particularly good behaviour at bedtime because I don't have much patience this evening."

The other guiding principle we have is that before you speak you should consider three things:

It is true?
Is it kind?
Is it necessary?

Finally, it's never acceptable for your children to be disrespectful to you. You don't say what she's they are, but one of my DC saying are you just wasting my time" would not end well. You are their mother - this is not an equal relationship, they don't get to talk to you like a peer. You need to be really firm on that.

I occasionally remind my children, we might vote on some things but this is not a democracy. Mum and Dad are in charge.

Ok thank you. Some good things there for me to think about.

Question: what sanctions do you have? I send to their room, but at bedtime that can't be done. I can't turn off lights as they share a room. Dh default is to give them a page of lines, but that doesn't sit right with Me? But if people say it is ok then I Amy start that as it does seems to work :/

How old are the children?

they are 10 and 11.

(Also, no fail on last post. Have reported. Please don't link the two by mentioning it! :( )

Yes Scarlett has explained what I was struggling to: that you can't always choose how you feel, but you can always choose how you deal with those feelings. Will you escalate them? Will you be mean to someone else? Will you bottle them up and brood? Or will you rationalise them and find some healthy ways of calming down and comforting yourself?

OP, my DS2 has ASD and also struggles with this issue. but I pick him up on it every time. He is perfectly capable of learning how to behave nicely - it's just he can't work it out for himself as NT people can, so I have to explain every stage. It's laborious, but worth it.

As to sanctions, I make them apologise properly to each other if they've been mean. If they are both being mean I give them a big physical job to do. If it's bedtime and I can't do that I tell them there will be a big physical job in the morning if I hear another mean word from either of them. And follow through next day so they know next time.

By ohysical what do you mean?

I struggle to get them to out their washing away! So I acant even imagine the argument if I tried to get them to do something else. How do you cope when they argue with you like that?

For example, a few weeks ago I asked that they tidy their rooms on Friday night while I was at work. And reminded dh. It was purely so I didn't always have to be the one asking them to do things and facing their wrath.
It want done.
Saturday night I asked the same.
It wasn't done.
Sunday I was at work literally all day. I reminded them all again.
It wasn't done.

Then I amabitch for asking them Sunday night and it is all my fault it kicked off and people got annoyed purely because I followed through on something that I had asked to be done two days ago!

Sanctions need to be tailored to the child. So for one child it might be banning TV or screens for a week for another it might be doing some household chores.

I have to say, that I don't make very much use of actual sanctions. A telling off (no shouting or yelling) but a lengthy discussion of exactly why the behaviour was inappropriate, how disappointed I am in them and exactly how I expect them to behave in future often does the trick.

So it's not "don't be rude because I will punish you", it's "don't be rude because that is not an acceptable standard of behaviour in this house"

If you think about a school setting, teachers get respect and good behaviour not because the children will be punished for not doing so, but because the expectation is there that they should.

We don't behave well in society because we might get punished, we behave well because it's the key to mutual happiness and success.

It sounds from what you've said that you need to reset expectations regarding respect and behaviour at home.

You have the power, you just need to assert it.

It sounds like the children argue with you a lot. Nip that in the bud. You are in charge, don't argue about what you've said or defend yourself. You are in charge - not arguments allowed.

I have very strict standards of behaviour, but I very rarely shout at my children. The rules are very clear and the kids know that following them is the key to a happy home.

I think most kids do better with clear rules, clear authority and a kind, happy, calm home.

I agree with the phrase and hate hearing people saying that they were made to feel x.
I don't think it invalidates somebodies feelings but gives them power to do something so they don't feel bad.
Nobody can make us feel anything, we choose how we feel about something.

Cross post, re putting the washing out away.

"Here is your clean laundry, out it away now before doing anything else"

If they come back down, check if it's away in drawers etc. If it's not send them back up to do it. TV etc not allowed until it's done. Dinner will not be served until it's done.

No shouting required - "it will only take 5 minutes, get it done and then you can watch your programme"

"Arguing is only wasting your own time, you could have put it away in the time you've been complaining"

By the way - no one should be calling you a bitch in your own home. That would be punished.

Re tidying rooms. Kids often find it hard to know what precisely that means. My DS would pop off and tidy up but my DD just looks at the mess and doesn't know where to start so she needs a specific instructions: hang up your clothes, tidy your dolls away, book the books back on the shelf, fill this bag with rubbish and bring it down stairs.

We have had many many lengthy discussions about why it isn't nice to speak to people like that. I stopped s I was asking how would you feel and dc said they wouldn't care. Theres that ASD again!

I then went the I am disappointed you speak to me like that route.they still do it.

I stopped shouting, cutting the conversation short with. I have said my piece I am the adult that is final. And got accused of not listening to them!

I am now up to doing a lot of phse work on relationships and often mention that we need to foster good relationship s,especially with family and not break them but this hasn't been long enough to see if it works yet.

Ok I see the nothing until it's done route. I like that. Will do that. What if I am not in the house? Also, what if they just mess about and don't do it?

Thank you all for your help btw.

What worked for me has been to stand there until whatever I asked for was done. Again and again. As in I follow through at the time I'm asking them, not two days later iyswim.
It doesn't mean that they do it automatically nowdays but it does get done at some point now.

Punishment has never been my way to make them do things. Rather I just don't let go. If I ask for something, I will stay there and wait until it's done and yes done just right now.
I tend to ignore comments or 'insults' remind them that we are all a team and we all need to pitch in and yes they do need to out their washing away. And repeat. And repeat again if need be. And no they can't do xx (read, Xbox, play...) until it's done.
If they are upset/angry (that would be a good time to remind them that they are choosing to be angry - only joking obviously!!), I would ignore or repeat it's normal and ask again. No shouting (it doesn't work and IMO actually makes it harder) just very calm and assertive 'you WILL do it'
I would also certainly expect DH to back you up on that too.

I would also choose the right time to do it. Bedtime when you're u know they won't want to go to bed isn't the right time to ask them to tidy up clothes iyswim

I'm not sure about this and like you I am struggling to articulate my thoughts. But I have heard it said that you can't help your feelings, but you can help your actions. So if you feel sad about something, you feel sad.

Your sadness isn't necessarily their fault. That's why it is better to say - when you did x I felt y. Not - you made me feel y. But I don't think feelings are a choice, and the question then is whether the action that triggered the feeling was reasonable/nice/acceptable or not. And if it wasn't, it wasn't. But they don't get to dictate your response and they don't get away with bad behaviour.

I usually have eleven million things I need to do so am in the next room.

Also if I repeat myself because they aren't doing it then I get shouted at. Do just ignore this? What do I say at this point?

Also they will ask for a drink, say, I know it is a tactic so say no then they accuse me of not letting them eat and drink! I do say well do it and then you can but it falls on deaf ears.

(Told you I am useless!)

They need to do their washing now actually. Will give them a five minute warning then try this tactic. They have three days worth to put away...

Xpost. We clearly have th same way of doing things Scarlet

OP dc2 is on the spectrum. That way of doing things worked well because there is consistence iyswim.
I fully agree that asking how they would feel about it doesn't work. But I have asked dc2 how does he think I/dc1 etc feel. Does he look happy/upset/angry? (Helps him identify feelings too) if what he did means dc1 is now angry or upset, was it a good idea to do it? Was it nice? And also why does he think dc1 is now angry?

Fuck nc fail again. I give up.

Yep I hate this too OP!

And I think the saying 'no-one can make you feel inferior without your consent' is a massive crock. Show me a person who has not been upset or offended at something someone has said at some point in their lives, and I will show you the biggest liar.

I get so wound up and angry when someone has upset me, or is bugging me, whether it's someone who has insulted me, or an acquaintance who thinks they are a friend, who won't get the message that I am not interested and bog off and leave me alone, and someone (like DH,) says 'you LET these people get to you. YOU are allowing it to happen!' FFS!

Well if they mess about and don't do it, then there is an appropriate consequence. No screens until done.

Or turn it round and provide a reward. "people with tidy rooms, will get ice cream/chocolate cake/stay up an extra hour/taken swimming etc "

The ASD does make it difficult however can you put it this way "you need to learn how to behave well because people (including adults) who can't behave well don't have as many friends.

That's the crux of it after all isn't it? We teach our kids to behave well because adults who behave badly are less likeable, less lovable and have unhappier lives?

The "you're not listening to me" accusation. Respect has to be earned. He has to learn that if he argues every time you ask him to do something then he hasn't earned the right to debate anything.

If he usually does what you ask then you as a parent will be far more open to negotiation.

He's a child, in the end of the day, homework, a clean room, bedtime, getting washed and being kind and respectful are all mandatory. There is no argument.

NotMyChoice do you genuinely believe that you can ensure they will obey you or do you believe that they will always do as they please?
Do you believe that it is essential for them to learn to tidy up/put washing away? Or it's because you ought to?

I firmly believe that when you relu believe that what you are asking for is for their own good, then they will feel it and they will do it.
Think about a day when they needed and injection but didn't want it. DId you let that stop you? Even if they were using delaying tactics, swearing etc...

YY about it being mandatory, even more with ASD.

Actually I would say that ignoring the eleven million things for a moment and getting the children to do as you say is probably a better use of your time, temporarily until you get them on track.

So the scenario is:

"Put your laundry away"
"can I have a drink"
"After your washing is away"
"Waaaah, you're denying me water"

My answer would be "don't be ridiculous, you aren't dying of thirst. You are 10/11 yo you are far too old to be having a tantrum. It will take you 10 minutes to do what I've asked and then you can have a drink."

But OP, you say they are 11 and 10 years old. If they want a drink, surely they can fix one for themselves, not have you running around getting one for them.

I agree with Scarlett that it would never work to say do X or I'll punish you but always do X because it is the right and kind thing to do.

As for stuff like tidy rooms, I try to put a positive spin on it: yes it's boring but you usually find something you love and had lost when you tidy up and you love it when your room looks nice. With ASD, it can be incredibly hard to be organised, so I find it easier to say: pick up all your dirty clothes and put them in the wash for five mins. Then, put your clean clothes away. Then pick up your books and toys/gear and put them away. Now clear and clean your desk, shelves and window sill. That way they have one single job to do each time.

Ok warning of five minutes has been given. They said their game would take 15 so we compromised on ten.

I'm going in. Wish me luck!

(Also,should I insist it is done properly, to save the I can't find x y z situation or just off the floor and shoved in a draw)

Also, and thank you for your help again, I will often tidy stuff to a table so they can see what they need to tidy. But dc1 hates that! And complains. But if I don't do that then they miss stuff and don't do it properly. Thoughts?

I totally agree with Red you have to really believe that you are in charge. Because if you don't, they won't.

I rarely have problems with visiting kids misbehaving in my house (even the ones that are horrors elsewhere) because I expect excellent behaviour in my home. From everyone. No one is ever in doubt who is in charge.

And I stomp (nicely, but firmly) on any unacceptable behaviour immediately.

My force of personality is stronger than any child's and as an adult I have natural authority (kids are used to doing what adults tell them).

I have no problems reprimanding visiting children if necessary and they all know I'll have no problem or embarrassment about calling their parents to collect them if they don't fall in line.

I've never had to send one home yet. I've never yelled at a child in my house. But they all do what they are told.

One little boy told my DS I radiate "potential scariness" even though I'm always smiley. It's my secret super power.

The ASD issues make it much, much harder for you but you still have to believe you are in charge and that they should behave.