Struggling with guilt so I wrote a list........

[pudding21]

My exOH has really done a number on me. I love him, I always will, 21 years and 2 DC's but emotionally and verbally abusive increasing in severity in the last 3 years. I feel guilty as he says he has nothing and he adores me and he is heartbroken. I feel like a shell of my formal self, and I know I need to work on myself a lot. Even after typing the list, I still feel GUILTY! My sister told me to write a list today so here it is. I am posting it so I can refer to it when I wobble again.

1. Constant competition about who does more (I work FT, take a lot of the childcare pre and post work and weekends, cook, shop, taxi the kids around, he was a SAHD), the kids are now with me most of the time)
2. Making me feel guilty if I spend any of my precious time with anyone but him.
3. Constant critisism: innocuous , passive aggressive, daily comments.
4. Jekyll and Hyde: not knowing what kind of mood he would be in. Eggshells.
5. The constant comments have made me anxious about almost every action I do because he has questioned my motives : putting lipstick on, making dinner and making any kind of mess, stacking the dishwasher wrong, using my phone...the list goes on and on.
6. Not feeling in the slightest bit appreciated, its all about hard life is on you. This is a kicker because he hasn't once tried to find work since we relocated overseas and have been quite content for me to push and find work. If he was happy in the role, I wouldn't give a shit.
7. Having to modify my parenting style (I'm more relaxed, he is like a sergant major).
8. Anytime we leave the house is always accompanied by stressing/ shouting etc
9. Not believing me if I say I am tired or feel unwell.

10. His needs always trumped mine. 11. Talking over me, putting down my opinions. Teeling me I wear rose tinted glasses. 12. Dismissing any ideas over bettering myself as "wellness bullshit" 13. Feeling uncomfortable in my own home (inviting people over etc was a very rare occurance). 14. Feeling guilty about going to the gym (which he never wanted to me to join) or going out in general. 15. Feeling like I cannot be close to my family as his is so dysfunctional 16. Drinking to excess. 4 month driving ban earlier in the year, but continues to drink drive. 17. Showing the boys how disappointed he is in them when they are just being kids. 18. Attacking me or the boys personally in an argument. eg. you ALWAYS do this, look at your face blah blah blah. 19. Calling me a cunt, spitting at me, hands round my throat, and to fuck off repeatedly in front of the boys. 20. Projecting your lack of self worth onto me. 21. Rarely complimenting me, now I have left he has said nicer things to me than you have in the last 3 years put together. I've been gone a week. 22. Never giving a reason to doubt my faithfullness, but he still never trusted me implicitly. 23. Everything is always about him, passive aggressive ways of getting his own way. 24. I always did things to make him happy, not me. In the hope he would be in a good mood. 25. Lack of ambition and drive, leaving me to solve everything. 26. No affection outside the bedroom. Literally none. 27. Accusing me of making up reasons not to have sex (We did, at least 3 times a week so he wasn't not getting any, I have had ongoing issues with the coil) but refusal for him to wear condoms. 28. No desire to see me grow or better myself. 29. Miserable and negative about everything, always a pessimist. 30. Twisting what I say or forgetting whole conversations. 31. Making me feel guilty when I travel with work (or if I call home while I am away). 32) Sucking the joy out of every happy occasion: birthdays, weddings, christmas etc. 33) Mean with money.

And yet, I still wonder if it was the right decision....................and feel terrible for leaving him devastated.

If you think there is any chance whatsoever that you might be able to communicate to her how badly he treats the both of you, and if you like her in other respects, you could try inviting her out for coffee and explaining it to her. You know, he calls you a cunt, grabs your throat, spits at you, just those sorts of little everyday niggles that we all have to accept as part of modern life, that make us laugh when we look back on them. Those silly little things that just seem so insignificant now we're in another house with a restraining order and a decree absolute. And a few examples of how you've seen him treat her.

But if you don't think there is any chance she will be receptive, or if you don't really care about her, then just ignore. Even if her marriage was worse, why on earth does that mean you have to stay in one that's only nine tenths as awful? If someone dropped a ton of shit on her, are you obliged to stand still for the rest of your life while someone drops half ton on you?

Or am I not reading it right?

Wow! Now we know where he gets his sense of entitlement from! Sounds like he was a complete mummy's boy. She's just never going to see his behaviour as being anything like his dad's. In her eyes what she put up with was much much worse so she's not going to accept that you are a victim too. If she did then she might have to take some responsibility as his mother for allowing him to grow up in a home where this behaviour was tolerated. You're just going to have to disengage from her too or it'll wind you up. Deep breath and and for you

I read it as she is trying to make it right, and make me feel guilty. She is a very funny woman although I do get on with her quite well.

She is cold, and bitter that his dad was an alcoholic and actually only stopped drinking until he died after she left. She should empathise but she would be in complete denial that HER son could act like this. Its like "poor me". or that is how I interpret it.

Maybe I am being harsh. I might try and speak to her, but I feel a bit disloyal (which is fucking crazy) to tell her things about her son.

His dad cheated on her, was sometimes violent with her, in and out of rehab. But she stuck by him for many many years. i think she will see our relationship as not that bad compared to hers. She absolutely adored him and was devastated when he died even though they lived apart. She still spoke to him every day on the phone, still cleaned for him etc.

I actually liked his dad, they just shouldn't have stayed together so long, it has damaged her sons a lot.

Innerwarrior: Hello :) and that is how I interpreted it.

He wasn't a mummies boy. She isn't a tiny bit maternal (she is closer to his younger brother). Its all about her.

Ah I see. Now it's all about you. She doesn't like that so is minimising. Lovely.

Sorry. Maybe i'm being a bit unfair. Many years ago a wise woman told me that i need to "teach people how to treat you". It took me a long time to understand what she meant as i've always allowed myself to be a bit of a doormat. Anyway what I mean is that as she's witnessed your marriage you have taught her what you were willing to accept. So now she's a bit surprised that your reaction is different. You just need to teach her about the new you

surely, "... yes its wrong, sounds like we made a monster"^ is taking responsibility? Not many mothers would refer to their own child as a 'monster'.

Or is she saying you are making him out to be a monster?

Springydaffs: I guess it could be interpreted either way. That is why I hate doing things over text but I'm not strong enough to talk to her yet. She thinks a lot of me, always said I was like a daughter to her.

I know what she is like though, affection from her side is forced mainly. She won't ever take any responsibility for what her relationship did to both her sons. She is a victim too I guess, but both of her children have issues with anger, drinking etc. Once when i was talking to her about the effect of ex seeing things he shouldn't and being affected by his dads alcoholism she said to me "It was never that bad, the boys were well looked after, they always got what they wanted". Materially yes, emotionally no. She is in denial that could have a long term effect on the boys, which is why I don't think she truely feels she has brought up a "monster". Neither do I, he isn't a monster.

I read it as "it sounds like you are telling me we made a monster".....rather than she actually believes that.

How old is she?

I say that bcs the info we have these days about emotional/mental health has progressed exponentially in a short time - older generations just don't, and didn't, know it. There are certain things we all learn in early-ish adulthood that stay with us for life.

She's 68. I think you're right. I'll chat with her when I feel stronger. I know she loves me as a daughter in law and generally we have a good relationship.

Perhaps email her with you opening list, and say that is why I've left, he's crossed a line my boys deserve better than witnessing that

Stay strong

Stay strong OP. Anyone of those points would be a deal clincher for most people, let alone all of them

I could write this list.

Not the physical violence but the rest of it.

Seeing it written in black and white is a kick in the stomach.

What do I do?

notmywords: get yourself mentally and physically in the best place you can be. Do you have kids? I started off thinking I couldn't split the family up but they were hearing their mum being torn down every day by their father. I was miserable every day. I started processing all my fears bit by bit and trying to understand them. Its crazy how you justify things to yourself.

I also got physically stronger by hitting the gym hard. I started lifting weights and that hour a few itmes a weeks was like my sanctuary. No one was judging me, I just went in, focused and worked out. I am still doing that now, its not for everyone but it was my saviour.

I started thinking about new bank accounts, rental prices, logistics. Then I got to the point where I could take no more and everything alinged. It all was the right time, no birthdays, Christmas, holidays, exams etc. And I knew it was now or never.

I am still crying, I am angry, sad, guilty. But I KNOW it was the right thing. My eldest told me tonight he wanted to go back to the other house angrily. He cried, I did a little too. Its really fucking tough. But you know when the time is right, i am sure of that.

Tell a person in real life if you havent already, post on here, gather strength.

Thank you

I've had treatment for anxiety recently which has made things worse. I realised a lot of my anxiety is caused by him, and worrying he's going to be annoyed, or feeling responsible for everyone.

I've also been going to the gym.

Logistically, I have a lot of debt at the moment so can't afford to rent. He'll never move out and the house isn't really in a state to sell, although he will never do anything about it.

I run my own business which has been suffering because I just don't have the mental energy to really focus. I need to sort that.

We had a row this evening about a decision I'd made which he doesn't like. He's been giving me the silent treatment for hours. The atmosphere is horrid.

And I have good friends who are patient listeners.

I feel for you, I also started having panic attacks and now I am out of it I am so exhausted as its like living in a flight or fight situation but for prolonged periods. Occassionally we would get a few weeks where everything was ticking along nicely, and then something big would happen that upset me so much. Then constant niggles again. Its like a circle. His brother contacted me tonight to say how worried he is about ex, granted he did say he was thinking of me too, but even now it seems people can't understand why without going into too many details. To outsiders yeah he can be a bit moody an d difficult but people like him. Damn, i like him sometimes. But its all those other times.......

Good you have good friends. Im only two weeks in, being alone but the anxiety has lifted a bit (the sadness etc is still there of course, its like grief. Start planning a bit more, and getting "your ducks in a row" as I hear said on here often.

Thank god you're away from him. Be massively proud of yourself

That sounds like such a big step.

Well done! I just can see how it works in practice at the moment.

I suppose that takes time though.

You're doing so well, OP! Stay strong! Just remember, you're not just doing this for yourself, you're doing this for your children. Anytime the guilt feels overwhelming, or if you even if a second think about giving into your ex's manipulating (and that's what it is, not remorse), think how much more guilty you'd feel if you were to go back and allow your children to continue to be exposed to this abuse, and suffer untold damage as a result.

Pudding how did you leave?

DH is still not talking to me a very aggressive 'silent treatment' way. I've tried to talk to him but he's not having any of it.

I can't bear this.

He's already said he won't leave the house and we can't really afford rent etc. I won't leave my children.

He would rather stay and deliberately make our lives a misery.

What do I do?

I've started a new thread so I don't hijack yours anymore.

You are amazing. Keep going.

I always like a nice update thread so thought I would return to update :)

So its been nearly 6 months since I left, he hasn't made it easy at times but I am quite proud of how far we have managed to come. At times I have sacrificed my own well being in order to try and remain civil, for the kids really. We have come to a financial agreement, we are selling the family home, had estate agents to value, builders to quote on some work that needs doing, visited a lawyer and accountant to get everything in order. He continues at times to try make me feel guilty for leaving, but I am stronger now and don't rise. I have continued to support him at a distance (he has had problems with anxiety and depression) as much as I feel I can without compromising myself. We have even had a few lunches together with the kids, attended parent evening together and been to a few mutual friends parties. Not as a couple but managed to be in the same room.

He is finally showing some signs of being able to step up, but I know 100% I will never go back. i am by nature a very caring person, and I don't want to (despite all that happened not to have him in my life), but again at a distance I control. He knows I won't go back, I have told him that is for certain. 21 years despite all that happened is such a long time, and essentially I still love him, but more like a dysfunctional family member.

The boys have been amazing, occasionally they will say they want to stay with me, but drop offs have been a breeze. He admitted the kids seem happier, and his relationship with them has improved. He has had a thing with another woman, a few months ago, he invited her to come and stay at our house for a week while I took the kids (we live abroad, she came form the UK). He usually has them every Monday and Tuesday and every other weekend. It was very cheeky of him, but I allowed it to happen as I knew that it would make my life easier. She is very keen from what I see on Facebook etc, and I am actually routing for him. If he moves on i feel I can also. While many might suggest I am too soft or have not enforced my boundaries enough, I knew how I wanted to play this. For the kids, they see us getting on most of the time, they are able to share moments with us, but they get the best of both of us in different houses. I never could believe he did the things he did consciously, and he isn't a bad person to anyone else. His self esteem plummeted and he was very anxious about life and he took everything out on me. I think in time he will realise I did this not only to be happier in myself but for him too.

While adjusting to not having the kids with me 24/7, I have started to enjoy the free time a bit more although I miss them terribly. I am reconnecting with friends and family, throwing myself into a new project and house sale, keeping fit and I have a new man in my life. He came quite unexpectedly I didn't think anymore than a few nights would come of it. It probably is too soon, but a friend set us up and the chemistry from the get go was amazing. Its been a few months now, and we see each other a lot, but no-one other than the friend that set us up knows anything about us. My choice, I don't want ex to know for a long time and we live in a small community, new guy is very understanding about this and its been great getting to know him without any judgement from anyone else. Its like we are in a beautiful bubble. He is totally different from ex, he is super laid back, very very considerate, very straight forward and very funny (not to mention the bedroom antics ;). My friend has known him since he was 18, and I also knew of him before she hooked us up but only to say hello to. He is totally understanding about my situation, totally respects how fast or slow I want to take things and never puts any pressure on me. He isn't someone I can see a long term future with, but I am enjoying the company a lot.

For the first time a few nights ago I went to bed and felt genuinely happy and content inside myself. I have had happy moments over the last few years of course, I always try get the most out of life. But I missed that general feeling of contentness. I feel to an extent that is starting to return and perhaps I can start enjoying life generally more with less stress and anxiety.

I see daily posts on here of women in the same situation. While relationships are hard at times, to feel disrespected, un-cared for, unappreciated and unloved are not feelings you should have over a long period of time. Leaving was the hardest thing I ever did and sometimes I pine for the old routine. I was very lucky to have friends and family that supported me every step of the way, but I am not looking back anymore. I am excited for the future (I know there will still be hurdles and moments along the way), I am proud of myself for the decision I made (one that took 3 years), and I am even more happy I can be ME again.

Thanks to everyone who posted on various threads around the time I left, honestly I don't think i could have done it without Mumsnet.