Would you want your mum to say anything if...

[SeaShores]

she thought you were sleepwalking into a relationship that had red flags all over it?

Please be gentle and don't just say 'Her life, keep out of it, be there with the tissues...'
I know that!

DD is in a relationship (not yet living together but planning on it) but both me, DH and her close friends can see big red flags. We think she may be digging in because she thinks she is too old (late 20s) to get out and start again, as she would like a family at some point.

She lacks confidence at times, and underestimates herself, but has masses going for her in so many ways ( highly skilled professional career, very attractive, kind, thoughtful...) I'm biased, yes.

If I were your mum (I'm older than many people here on MN) how -if at all- would you want me to have that conversation with you so you don't become defensive and continue to hurtle into what may be a disaster? How would you want the conversation to start? Ultimately it is her life, but I feel it would be remiss of me not to say I have concerns...then of course the choice is hers.

If you do talk to her, focus on 'her'. If any of these fit...

Tell her you're concerned about her, that she doesn't seem happy, like herself these days.

Tell her if she seems different when she's around him, more tense, more uptight, more nervous, walking on egg shells, bending over backwards for others, etc.

Don't focus on him, focus on her. Gently.

See what she says.

Cultural differences spring to mind here. You say he is not from this country??
Some men from other cultures treat women differently, seeing them as inferior to themselves. It is the way they are programmed and conditioned. Nothing right or wrong with that, but it is different to a liberated society that does its utmost to educate men not to objectify women.

I'd try and understand the cultural, societal differences before charging in.
It may be eye opening, educational and may give you a different perspective on their relationship.

That sounds perfect dowhatnow.

noego He's from Europe.

It depends really. There are certain red lines - abuse, lack of respect, some (not all) kinds of financial inequality/imbalance - that I think you need to approach her about, carefully. Along the lines of, "I noticed on Friday that John said X - are you OK with that? How do you feel?"

Other stuff? I don't think it's your place, and I expect you'll only alienate her. The only thing you can rightly say is, "I'm a bit worried when John says A, B or C. It's for you two to think about, but I'm here if you want to chat."

My parents hated my ex-boyfriend. They'd give you lots of reasons why, but it boiled down to the fact that he was a Persian Muslim, and we're Jewish. Their interventions to try and steer me off had the opposite effect, of course.

Whatever you do don't make the mistake your parents did of running him down and pointing out his faults.

Just make it clear to her, and keep repeating it, that if she is having problems, misgivings or doubts about him or his behaviour, then to talk to you immediately.

So many stories of abused or unhappy relationships seem to centre on the victim feeling they can't talk to their family. Just saying, you look a little down, is there anything you want to discuss, is the right direction. (In the future, not now)

If you criticise him or make your reservations plain she will not feel inclined to open up to you when she needs to, so keep quiet on that score for now.

It also doesn't sound too bad to me either from what you have put.

What do you mean that the "caring" is all from her?

How does he put "no effort" in?

I probably do more thoughtful stuff as I have more time & opportunity.

That doesn't mean that husband never does anything thoughtful for me though.

I would definitely say something - although you do need to be very careful.

I say this from the perspective of someone who was in an abusive relationship many years ago, and I knew my family were aware of it - and witnessed - some horrible instances of abuse - but nobody ever said anything. It left me feeling that I couldn't bring it up with them if I wanted to, and also used to tell myself that actually, my relationship can't really be abusive (it really, really was), because my own family seemed to think it was ok.

I wouldn't specifically mention the MH issues (it could just put her straight on the defensive), or the fact that he's not British (likewise). But I would say that you do sometimes worry that she might not be happy in her relationship, and that you hope she knows that if she ever has any doubts or worries, that she can come to you and you will be 100% on her side and will help in any way that you can. If she does get defensive and asks you to specify exactly what you mean, you could say that you know her very well and she just doesn't seem as happy/at ease/ whatever as she used to be?

I'm confused. I know you said you don't want to give details but sometimes it's impossible to help without more information.

How do you know he has a MH issue if he won't acknowledge it or seek help? The only thing I can think of is maybe he doesn't leave the house? So she does a lot of running around after him?

MH problems of themselves don't constitute a red flag. Nor does one person doing all the flowers/chocolate buying and date arranging. What is he actually doing that is concerning?

What part of Europe though?

It's a hard one. I stuck in relationships because I didn't want to disappoint my parents and wanted the same fairytale relationship they have, so maybe letting her know clearly that her happiness is your priority. That all relationships have problems and some aren't meant to last forever but that doesn't mean they weren't valid or it was a mistake. Also like others say, ask her what her ideal scenario is and to play it until the end. Having said that, if she's anything like I was, I always thought that once you were married then there would be no issues!

diddl I have said that I am not giving the whole picture as it would be too identifying. I can't repeat the conversations they have had that I was party to, or the things he has and hasn't done, without it being obvious to anyone reading who may know us. The bottom line is I don't see it as an equal partnership where they are giving and caring equally, and equally invested.. I may be wrong, but that's how it seems to me. He has time to waste, as a young bloke, she doesn't.

Is there anyway her d dad could speak to her, using the play movie to the end idea( which is brilliant)

Sounds hard for you

Can I just point out that while you are right, a relationship should be an equal partnership, the balance isn't always equal at any given moment in time. There will be stints where one partner needs more support from the other, and vice versa.

I'd reiterate what a nice chap he is, how anyone she likes is welcomed by you blah blah, but add in that some of the issues thrown up in this relationship can be complicated and require extra sensitivity (MH issues, dual nationalities/cultures etc) and you're always there is she needs a non-judgemental ear or sounding board for anything.

My DD was in a relationship with many red flags.
I did sit her down and tell her about red flags and controlling behaviours.
Her friends had also noticed and it was her friends that got her to realise what was going on.
But I did plant the seeds to start with.
She was only 17 at the time though.
I would hope a 29 YO might know more by now and listen to her wise mum.

Her dad and I have discussed him talking to her, which might be better in some ways as it won't be 'mum nagging'. She might take it more seriously as her dad has not ever said anything negative before about this chap.

I'd be tempted to go along piefacerecords lines of thought...

When I was 21 and engaged to someone who was a bully, had PTSD and also alcohol issues I had warning signs and ended it but before those problems reared their ugly heads fully i was all ready to emigrate abroad to be with him, but I was a lot younger. It was only my best friend at the time saying I was too young etc that stopped me from continuing the relationship but then his other faults had emerged too.

As EweAreHere says focus on her and say you'll be there for her. Maybe open the barriers for talking or talking more about her relationship issues so she can make her own mind up and come round to her own opinions of him without yours clouding things. The worst thing is to tell her how she feels or what she should do. Which I'm sure you don't do the latter!

hells controlling relationships can happen at any time, I had a boyfriend who I lived with who was controlling/jealous etc and to be fair I really hadn't had that experience before (I was a bit green/naive) and didn't know how to deal with it. It took one of my best friends to tell me, at 29, that this behaviour wasn't good and was wrong!

Also if you're hell bent on having a relationship, having kids (at a certain age if you feel time is running out) then you can have a one track mind and be blinkered. One of the reasons I had the relationship at 29 was we were both similar age and didn't want to be alone and presumed we should settle down , how wrong we both were!

The only real practical solution would be to expose the weaknesses, which supposedly everyone else sees and open her eyes to them. If she's not seeing it that way, she will continue to follow her goal and will only ruin your relatioinship with her.

Unfortunately people need to see things for themselves despite what others say, believe it only until you see it. You'll waste your breath.

Try these books, perhaps you read them first, then her, and discuss.
Women Who Love Too Much and Smart Women, Foolish Choices

I was also in an abusive relationship, engaged. My family said nothing. It made me feel as though they were entertained by my stupidity. (He had even tried it on with one sister, And she still said nothing until after I had broken it off!)
I felt that I was doing a great wrong in breaking an engagement and that my father (mum deceased at that point) would be ashamed of me. Nope, my dad was quite relieved when I told him I had given the ring back.

It's very difficult op but if your instincts are telling you something isn't right, trust them.
I would make your point gently and succinctly. Emphasise that she is an adult and you respect her right to make her own decisions but there are a few things that concern you and her well-being is the most important thing to you.
When she was younger, how did she respond to you if she thought you were nagging? Did she dig her heels in and ignore you?
Olympiathequeen makes an excellent point about letting your DD know she can always talk to you. It's sad to see how many people don't feel able to tell their loved ones that they are desperately unhappy in their relationship.

I would do exactly what dowhatnow suggests. That way you've said your piece in a non confrontational way and can't do much more other than offer her your support whatever she chooses to do.

It's tricky. One of my DC has a partner we love but on some levels I have some deep concerns about them. My DC knows what they are son I'd never spell them out but they do make me uncomfortable.