The Grey Rocks #1

[Suchalovelyday]

Starting a thread as discussed over on AIBU for those of us whose mums feel the need to verbally attack/put us down/treat us like shit.

I realise Grey Rock can be used in many things, please feel free to join in if you wish to use Grey Rock on someone in your life. The threaD is for successful and not so successful uses of Grey Rock, as well as outrageous examples of what brings us to needing Grey Rock.

Can someone cleverer than me please link the thread from AIBU to here and vice versa.

Posting random pics of grey rocks is also welcome, extra kudos to pics you've taken yourself and are now considered odd. Huge sparkly prize if you manage to text your Grey a Rock pic to the person giving you grief AND stay grey rock at the response. Your text must read 'I saw this lovely stone today'.

God bees that sounds awful.
That ramping up of abuse is called an extinction burst. Once they realise you're not taking the bait they throw everything at you in an attempt to get you to play ball. It should tail off once he gets it that you're not to be baited... but I would worry about what he will try next. You know him better than we do of course, but do be careful. It seems a shame there's no way to avoid living with him till the remortgage.

It's a bit different situation to what you normally have with grey rocking which is where the person doesn't know there's anything wrong in the relationship, and you just sort of gradually disengage. Ideally they won't really notice what's going on. With you it's all out in the open already.

I wonder if the thread on coparenting with a difficult ex-P might be useful?

Toomuch thanks for replying. I was hoping that the grey rock method could still work here but maybe a sort of hybrid version of it ha where he'll just get bored of my lack of response and run out of steam. One thing he knows very very well is that if he laid a finger on me or one of the dc that would be game over for him as I would be getting him arrested before he could blink. He would lose everything including his job I think so I'm not really scared of him (I can tell myself that anyway hopefully I'll believe it!) and he would mess up his chances of seeing the kids as much as he'd like. Last night there was a few minutes when I thought he was going to attack me, he was standing there and I said something about my wedding ring and his eyes kind of went black and his face changed. It was actually really horrible but he never did it, I think he likes just knowing that I'm scared.
I wish there was something that I could do but unfortunately I am stuck here for now. I want to make this as smooth as i can for the dc.
He used to threaten to ring my Dm all the time when I was non compliant and challenged him so i started to ring his uncle (I know it sounds really petty) and he never did it again! I haven't rung his uncle for a while now so maybe in need to do that...
maybe next time he threatens to tell the kids I should just say ok let's do it then... you're probably right they need to know don't they...

I thought he was going to attack me, he was standing there and I said something about my wedding ring and his eyes kind of went black and his face changed
This is intimidation and the police would be interested to hear about this. You can dial 101 in a non-emergency and talk to the domestic violence unit.
Don't assume you can always handle him, don't hesitate to phone 999 in an emergency. Abusive partners can turn violent when they know they are losing control of you in an attempt to rein you back under their spell.
The blank or dead stare of those with NPD or ASPD is well documented. It's believed to be about asserting the things they crave: power, dominance and control.

Keeping I never knew that 'blank stare' was an actual thing...! I don't know what category he actually falls into, I've always just put it down to basically him just being a selfish twat who I've let get into negative behaviour patterns with me (blaming myself of course) but recently he has started calling me a combination of psychopath, sociopath, saying I have BPD and in the last fortnight even narcissist and it's sort of made me look more into these disorders and think maybe it's actually HIM. he, funnily enough always seems to attack me with the behaviour that he himself is displaying (which I am sure I have read somewhere is a typical behaviour of one of the categories haha).
I know I could ring the police if he was threatening me but realistically I'd feel a bit stupid saying that my stbxh was looking at me in a way I didn't like. I know it's not as simple as that but I would hate the embarrassment of police at my door as it is so it would have to be for a really valid reason if I called them (we are really close with all our neighbours). Thanks so much for taking the time to reply

Fi think this us beyond grey rock, Bees. He's emotionally abusive and that's an offence now. He sounds quite scary tbh. Could you not get away from him when he went on until 1am? I would definitely try to speak to the police. He sounds very volatile and I think you need to expedite getting away from him and having some sort of plan on in place for when you do. Things do to tend to escalate as you try to get away from them so please get some professional advice ASAP xx

You can go to the station, the police don't have to come to you. In fact in this scenario they would probably advise you went there. I think you were not just 'not liking how he looked at you'. I'm still learning about grey rock but can give you advise re your husbands behaviour and police action. PM me if you wish

Secret But you thought he was going to attack you, it wasn't just a weird stare. He is intimidating you. It's not normal and t's not OK, it's just you have become used to it so that you can't see your situation objectively. Look up 'boiling frog'.
Caring what the neighbours think should be the last thing on your mind when compared to prioritising your safety. Please wise up. Phone Women's Aid 0808 247 2000 for advice, available 24hrs, 7pm-7am are quietest. They will take your situation very seriously even if you don't yourself.
All the talk about personality disorders is projection - he is telling you about himself.
You will find all the advice on the entire internet about living with a NPD person/psychopath says run! Run for the hills! Please listen to us, the ones with hindsight.

And absolutely, categorically DO NOT rise to any provocation because he will turn the story around and tell everyone - friends, family and every person in authority he can think of (GP, police, social services) - that YOU are the aggressor and portray himself as the victim deserving of everyone's sympathy.
Please do not gamble on this never happening to you because "he just wouldn't go that far".

bees I think we are well out of grey rock territory now. I know two women who have left abusive partners. one stayed for years because she wanted to buy her ex out and not lose the house. In the end it got too much and she fled. literally went on the middle of the day with kids. She established contact when ready. She divorced him and bought him out.

The other is early stages, she left and is renting. I hope she divorces him.

I'm not sure why you necessarily want to buy him out. It's a home you shared with a hateful man.

Won't it remind you of him? If the home was sold could you not get another mortgage with the half of the house and whatever is coming in May?

Or move out and then buy him out in May?

Please take advice from Women's Aid.

No house is worth your safety or that of your kids.

I doubt any wives or girl friends really know their partner will kill or injure then.

Maybe, they may fear the worst etc but hope for the best. What if he hits you and you bang tor head or fall down the stairs? Who will care for your kids if he puts you in a comma?

He may not intend to kill you or even hit you but he is losing is control. Dangerous desperate men do dangerous desperate things

Bees i think grey rock (as far as I can make out - help me someone who knows?) Is designed for situations which are quite stable, not great etc but where grey rock will lesson the other person's interest in you and not provide opportunities for emotional attacks.

What you describe is volatile, not stable, prone to potential emotional and verbal attack. Potential for physical attack.where you could be drawn into a physical fight he could use to assault you or claim you have assaulted him!

I really think you need to get advice from women's aid.

When you tell your kids what has happened, do it alone, without him, do not allow him to shape the conversation.

Why are you worried what the neighbours think? Another reason to get all the cash you can and move. Why stay where you have not felt safe? IMHO

Thank you everyone and I'm really sorry for derailing this with something that's not even Grey Rock.. you are all right of course and you have given me a different perspective.
When he kept me up til 1am I could have gone downstairs and he would have followed me - he did keep saying 'let's go downstairs then' when I asked him to stop shouting as I didn't want him to wake our dd but then it would have been like I was giving him permission to continue.. hope that makes sense. He is very up and down, he was charming and nice on Sunday as it was dd's birthday party and we had friends over and Monday too. Today I came back from the school run and he'd bought me a card with 'to a beautiful wife' on, a £50 voucher for a spa and a rose. Something that he wouldn't have done before we split even. It really creeped me out. I texted him thanks but that was it and when he returned home he was clearly mad that I was not full of appreciation for his gesture.
He then switched back to mr nasty. Ranted at me for hours (I was working at home) and threatened to tell our ds when he came back from school. He said he would tell all my family and friends too and that they would all hate me etc - what he doesn't know is that I've already told my dm who is supportive of me but who advises me to keep my mouth shut til I can buy him out in may, keeping him sweet even by deceiving him (which i understand but not really ok with). He rang his uncle so that I could hear him in the other room and told me. I then left the house and rang his uncle myself and explained and apologised (I am so embarrassed).
I want to buy him out mainly because this is my dc's home, we are settled here and I just wanted them to have as much stability as they can. It's a really sought after location and we have lots of friends here. (Although maybe I won't have after he's finished).
When ds came home from school I hovered around as I wanted to see if he would carry out his threat and tell him. He eventually said to me (in front of him) 'I'm not going to say anything, as I won't stoop to your level'. I said nothing but breathed a sigh of relief. He asked me a q about something else and didn't like my answer so walked over to my ds who was eating his dinner and said 'I know your mum has been saying some bad things about me, but whatever she has said are not true and if she ever says anything again I want you to tell me!'
My ds looked blankly at him and said that I hadnt said anything bad about him. I was utterly mortified and told my ds to get his shoes on and come with me to take dd to a class when I would have just left him but I didn't want to leave him with h.
Ds was upset on the ride there, questioning me, blaming me and saying that I should give him a chance as he has 'changed' in the last month and not said anything nasty to him. I hate him so much for getting my poor 10yo involved and I feel like I'm in such a tangled web I don't know what to do for the best for the dc. I ended up saying this to my ds I don't know if I did the right thing but I had to say something: 'I don't like being called names and I don't like your dad pointing in my face and shouting at me. I also do not like anyone calling YOU names and saying mean things to you. You might not mind this but I mind FOR you. I wouldn't be a very good mother if I didn't do anything about someone treated you like that, so I will stand up for you. I will also stand up for myself. This is why your dad is angry'.
My 10yo son said to me 'sounds like you should have divorced him ages ago'. (I just said nothing and we changed the subject).
He has been awful this evening, my ds is ok and carrying on as normal as am I just staying out of the way.
I am going to ring women's aid tomorrow. Thanks everyone for writing and apologies again for the derail.

He's even gaslighting your children - it's psychological abuse. Is it really kind to keep them in this poisonous atmosphere in which they are learning what to expect and how to behave in their own romantic relationships? However I understand your painful situation.
I am glad you explained to your DS you and he should expect respect from others. I would suggest his dad is angry because he is a bully and makes a deliberate choice to be angry. It doesn't just happen when you are assertive does it? It happens every time H wants to dominate and control.
Grey rock is for after you have moved out and are at a safe distance. In the meantime do whatever you need to do to stay safe, even if it means cooperating and pretending to be friendly.

bees we are here for you.

I don't think this is derailing. We can still talk grey rock but we are worried for you sweetie.

"Ranted at me for hours (I was working at home)" this I'd abuse. He is also potentially going to get you in trouble with your job

"and threatened to tell our ds when he came back from school."

I may be wrong but I think you need to control the narrative and tell your kids yourself. How old is dd?

"He said he would tell all my family and friends too" Again, why would you allow him to control the release of information on something as vital as this?

"and that they would all hate me etc" why would they hate you for leaving a verbally controlling, abusive man?

Yeah I think I need a new plan.
The plan was that I would stay til I could remortgage, he would take the money (I wanted him to be clever and take this option quietly realising that it was a preferable idea) and leave. By this time he would be reasonable, we could tell the dc with only a short time to go before he left so that they weren't living in limbo then I would sort them out after he'd gone and support them however they needed it (especially my ds as I assumed he would be most affected). I just wanted this to be as pain free as possible for them. It's embarrassing for me too - I'll be honest. I'm nearly 40, (hopefully some sort of) respectable woman living with someone acting like he is an 18 yo reject from the JK show.
Anyway yeah I need to do something else, fuck what people think, you're right, I shouldn't care, he's the bully not me. I have minimised his behaviour for so long. I'm going to ring WA tomorrow and I'm going to tell people.

My dd has just turned 4 btw. I need to take back the control here.

"Fuck what people think" is a great new mantra for yourself. It's his shame, not yours.
Be kind to yourself when you are a single parent too. I doubt other people judge you as harshly as you judge yourself.

Thanks. If I'm honest I think people judge others a lot of the time because they make them feel insecure and challenged about their own life choices.
I am so not scared of being a single parent. My h makes parenting so much harder, when he's not here we are all so happy and relaxed. I keep having these secret little happy moments where i imagine something I'm going to do or feel - those moments keep me going. I think that my kids trust in me to be their rock and I won't let them down.
Thanks for all your supportive words, I have lurked on here for years. I only just started posting a couple of months ago and I never realised how much others' support and advice means and how it can be life changing for some people who have no one to talk to irl.

Bees "he was clearly mad that I was not full of appreciation for his gesture." He is a bit delusional isn't he?

"what he doesn't know is that I've already told my dm who is supportive of me but who advises me to keep my mouth shut til I can buy him out in may"

I am not sure why you or your mum are so set on keeping this awful man sweet and biding your time. What if he does some really bad emotional or even physical damage in the next two -three months?

Re "keeping him sweet even by deceiving him (which i understand but not really ok with" What are you not OK with? Deceiving him? I'd have no qualms about that but would worry he will see through it and get really angry.

"He rang his uncle so that I could hear him in the other room and told me. I then left the house and rang his uncle myself and explained and apologised (I am so embarrassed)."

I just do not understand what all this pussy footing around relatives is about. Why care what his uncle does or does not think. You and your kids are what is important.

"I want to buy him out mainly because this is my dc's home, we are settled here and I just wanted them to have as much stability as they can. It's a really sought after location and we have lots of friends here. (Although maybe I won't have after he's finished)."

It is 100% your choice and your call, who am I to tell you what to do. Honestly I do understand the desire for stability. But I wonder if you will feel safe and happy in the house you shared with a man who has made you so unhappy. Maybe long term you may move anyway, just a thought.

Even if you will but him out in May, why do you need to stay there, could you rent a small place for a couple of months. I know it is not easy as most leases are 6 months or longer but worth at least asking, isn't it. If you do cover your tracks.

If this horrible man is able to turn your friends against you, then they are not really friends. Whatever your reason for wanting to end your marriage, it is valid, this is your life. It is none of your friends business!

You do seem to be worried about everyone else but you.

Yay, I am so glad to hear you say "I am going to ring women's aid tomorrow."

So, yes do please speak to Women's Aid. I feel strange advising you, I have no experience in these matters aside from two friends who both fled unhappy, abusive marriages. The professionals know best.

I am afraid "I was utterly mortified", fear of embarrassment is keeping you trapped under his thumb. please do let the people at Women's Aid know how much he holds things over you.

"Ds was upset on the ride there, questioning me, blaming me and saying that I should give him a chance as he has 'changed' in the last month and not said anything nasty to him."

So, with respect, your son (who does not understand all the facts of abusive men) cannot coerce you into staying with this man, nor should he be put in a position to do so. I was delighted to read that once he knows the facts he doesn't want to do this. He is one smart 10-year-old.

What you said to your son was spot on.

What your son said is also spot on.

So YES TO WOMEN'S AID, do not rely fully on your mum, us or any other person to advise you, we do not know the full story, only you do and you are so worried about what others will think you are allowing this to cripple you, IMHO. So please do speak to a professional at Women's Aid and tell them the full story. We are all rooting for you.

You have not derailed. [hugs] XXXXXXXXXXXX

Great update, I just read it after posting. XXXX

Italian you are so right. I have no idea why I am so bothered and controlled by what other people might think when actually I haven't even done anything wrong...
When you see it written down it does look really ridiculous that a grown woman would even give so much of a shit about it.
Well fuck that I'm done with it, seriously.
Tomorrow is a new start for me.
THANK YOU ALL.

Xxxx keep us posted,

Quick update, I rang women's aid this morning, I am so glad I did. She said that his behaviour over the whole relationship is seriously controlling and coercive she said it was definitely emotional and psychological abuse to me and the dc. He has committed a crime.
She gave me a talking to; she said that if I don't be brave then he will do everything in his power to turn my dc against me and I will be trapped forever. She advised me to ring the police and report it to the DV unit, which I have! I haven't made a statement yet but I'm waiting for them to call me back and I will go down to the station to report. I said that I don't want him arrested or to press charges if I can avoid it peacefully and I rang his uncles and told them that I need help getting him away from me so that me and the dc are safe. If they don't help me then I have said I will have no alternative but to press charges. They are going to suggest he goes and stays with one of them.
I am actually shitting myself but know I have done the right thing. He's gonna go crazy!

Well done Secret. It takes a lot of courage to do what you have done. Remember not to rise to any provocation. He will want to be able to turn things around and tell people it's you who is the bad guy to get sympathy.

Bees I am so pleased you've taken this step.

Well done.

I am also a little worried for you. If things turn nasty, do not hesitate to call the police. Don't react physically to him, unless you need to to protect yourself.

Have you talked to your kids? Make is clear that this is best for everyone. It's not good for daddy to be so angry all the time and to treat you badly because of it. You and the children deserve to be free of this behaviour that can make things turn nasty.

You just want what is best for everyone. As the adult you need to make tough choices that are best for everyone. It may appear it is not best for daddy etc but actually it will be better for him too in the long run. I'd only say this if you think you can say it convincingly. Otherwise maybe best to not menton him. Maybe Women's Aid can give you some suggestions on how to break it to people etc.

People who care about you will care about you! Anyone who judges you or makes unhelpful comments etc, they are not your concern and you do not need to expend any energy on them! Save your energy for yourself and your kids.

XXXXXX

Guess what.... I stood my ground, I was calm, I told him that I had been to the police and that I can press charges at any time and that if he doesn't leave now then I will. I explained exactly what I had done so he knew I wasn't bluffing.
He shouted at me, accused me of lying, spoke to his uncle, changed his mind about 10 times, then eventually ran out of steam and packed a hold-all and left....
I heard him on the phone to his uncle and he was saying 'well she has me completely
Over a barrel, she of course is lying (yeah right) but she could get me sacked and so I don't think I've got a choice'.
I can't believe that I actually went through with this today.!!!
(I spoke to a police officer this afternoon too and i recorded everything without pressing charges, he also told me that he has broken the law).