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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Need some advice on a difficult situation

56 replies

GinAndFrolics · 09/02/2017 12:11

Hello, I'm a very long-time lurker but this is my first post. I've been debating for a while about posting for advice, but it's really come to a point now where I'm running out of ideas of what to do.

I'll try not to drip feed, so this might be a long one! Sorry.

My parents are both retired. DF took early retirement, but DM took voluntary redundancy around the same time. She didn't want to leave, but they were making big changes to her role which would have meant taking on twice the work load but in less hours, plus additional travel. I completely support her decision.

Unfortunately, the way things are now, it is particularly difficult for women in their forties and fifties to find employment. I've seen this with other family members and also with a couple of women I have worked with. It's a struggle - you become dependent on savings and your partner (if you have one) until you can claim your pension (which may be meagre if you took a career break to bring up a family). I really feel that something should be done to stop companies discriminating against employing women at this stage in their lives.

DM loved working and misses it a lot. DF always said when he took early retirement that he would do a few bits of private consultancy here and there. Despite being called up frequently, he never does any of it. He needs a rest apparently...even a few years on Hmm

DF has become unbelievably lazy. He does NOTHING. Sits on the computer or iPhone all day doing F all. He probably wouldn't even eat or go out if DM wasn't there.

Their relationship seems basically non-existent now (a number of reasons over a number of years). They spend the day in the same house but different rooms. I think a big thing is that DF just doesn't do anything for DM, and despite MANY conversations with him, he doesn't change.

DM has a couple of friends, but doesn't have any hobbies. This time of year seems to get her down anyway because of the weather. Over the past year I've been watching her sink into depression and she won't do anything about it. She refuses to seek professional help ("I don't want pills and telling someone how shit my life is won't help"), she won't even try any activities that I suggest to get her out of the house or occupied. She is isolating herself more and more.

I try to point out the good things, but she always finds a way to turn it around or say it's not enough. I know that it's illness speaking. I just don't feel equipped to deal with it.

Unfortunately I live in Europe now with soon to be DH (who is very supportive in all this), so can't even pop in as much as I'd like. We're here short-term for stbDH's job, but will be moving back next year or so to our house (still not near to DM though). I fly back at least one weekend per month. They have never come to visit me. I'm lucky that I am self-employed, so when I'm not with clients I do got back to the UK for a week or so and work from there to keep her company. Siblings live in the UK but the other side of the country. They visit when they can and call DM often. I do feel I'm taking on more of the burden than they are, but I think it's a personality thing and they're in different high-pressure careers that have little to no flexibility.

I don't know what to do. I know I'll be told it's not my responsibility. But it makes me so sad and I feel completely helpless. I also feel guilty for being happy about the good things going on in my life (buying a house, getting married, career is going REALLY well).

Has anyone been through the same? Any suggestions? Even a hand hold.

Please be kind. Thank you.

(P.S. Wasn't sure where to put this - is Relationships the right place?! Confused)

OP posts:
Foldedtshirt · 09/02/2017 21:03

Really badger, that should be...

AnyFucker · 09/02/2017 21:07

It doesn't look like you are simply saying "yes, but...." to suggestions

Sometimes there really is not a solution. You can't fix it for her.

Cameron2012 · 09/02/2017 21:08

No advise, but sending hugs, she is lucky to have someone who cares so much about her

ManoloChooBoutin · 09/02/2017 21:20

My Mum was similar to this. DF was lovely though (although she took on the majority of the housework). Sadly my DF passed away earlier this year. I was really worried that DM would just hide away and not see anyone. However she has surprised me and got to know a couple of ladies who live near her and goes out with them. One of them takes her to a fortnightly "evening talk".

You could also get her to check out the University of the 3rd Age - loads of really interesting stuff going on with that. It's specifically for people just like your DM.

Cricrichan · 09/02/2017 21:27

Why don't you buy her an annual gym membership? Get her signed up to some classes and she won't be able to return it. Also maybe to a language course or similar. Something to get her out and about and with people. If she can make stuff maybe commission her to do some stuff and sell it on etsy?

GinAndFrolics · 09/02/2017 21:40

Good idea foldedtshirt! I might just book her a flight to come back with me next time. Change of scene ought to do her the world of good.

Thanks Cameron and AnyFucker

Manolo (love the user name, great taste!) - I'm sorry for your family's loss.
I wish my DF was like that. Siblings and I have all tried to get him to just do more and behave more lovingly, to no avail.

U3A looks great! Thanks for that! And there is one near her so could be a very good option. Thank you! Smile

Hi Cricrichan. Gym is really not her thing. She's not one for exercising in front of others. I get that, I'm the same in the most part, other than kickboxing classes, I avoid the gym. I will broach it again and also look to see if maybe there's a particular class she may be interested in (e.g. pilates, she used to do that at home), then she can go to that rather than the gym/pool.

I have suggested a language course in the past. I may try that one again as it's something I think she would come to enjoy.

I think she's lost her spark and motivation. She's had a few health issues recently too so that's gotten her down and she now uses that to get out of doing things.

I just need to get the fire back in her belly and the sparkle back in her eyes!

OP posts:
maydayingillead · 09/02/2017 22:03

Maybe she needs to be needed if that makes sense. Child-rearing and work can provide a sense of purpose and it can be really hard to lose it all quite quickly (firstly with children growing up and then coming out of employment sooner than she expected). That's why volunteering could help, especially if it's part of a ladder to other things but it's hard if she sees herself as a burden. It sounds kind of cheesy but could you try slowly starting to ask her advice on things (even if they are trivial e.g. Curtain colors) . It might provide a subtle confidence boost, especially if her partner always puts her down.

VivDeering · 09/02/2017 22:08

I know I'll be told it's not my responsibility. But it makes me so sad and I feel completely helpless

Why do you think that is?

Shurleyshummishtake · 09/02/2017 22:16

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Shurleyshummishtake · 09/02/2017 22:18

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GinAndFrolics · 09/02/2017 22:47

maydayingillead - Yes, I agree with everything you've said. I think from the consensus here that I need to push more on that.
I do try to do that, make her feel needed, valued and important. I call her every day to have a natter and get her opinion on things, ask for her recipes and get her to talk me through them (even though I've made them countless times and remember it, I like that she feels I need her knowledge or opinion). Or opinions on house and wedding stuff (although, there's a fine line with those topics as we do have different tastes and ideas of budgets).

VivDeering - not my responsibility? Because that's what I've been told by friends I've confided in and they haven't given much valuable input. It's more of a "get on with your own life". I can't agree with that though. My idea of family is that we're in it together and I will do as much as I can to help the ones I love...when it doesn't work, of course I feel helpless. I know that at the end of the day, deep down, it has to come from her. "You can't help someone who doesn't help themselves". However, I do believe in guiding them to the tools and means of helping themselves if they are unable to see them. No matter how long that might take.

Some really good ideas there Shurleyshummishtake. I will look into the voluntary aspect again. I haven't done for a while, so will get on that again.

Agree about exercise and will encourage it more. She had started, but stopped again recently. I'll see if there's something we can do together next time I'm there.

Vit D is definitely lacking. She won't take a regular supplement because she read some pseudoscience codswallop about it being really bad for you if you have it every day Hmm. She won't listen to me when I explain why that's incorrect (I have a doctorate in a relevant scientific field, so I should know). She absolutely refuses to go to the doctor so any form of blood tests are out of the question. I know she needs them, but short of doing it myself, I'm not sure how to get her to go. She's so bad with this the the aforementioned health conditions ended up worse than they needed to because she left it so long to go to the doctor. I was so angry about that! But I digress.

She's not religious, so don't think anything church-related would go down well. Although similar roles exist in some charities, so I may look into that.

OP posts:
Joyofscreamingjoy · 09/02/2017 23:24

If she likes knitting/crochet take a look at the knit aid website/Facebook page. If she's worried about money (&you have a little spare to help her) buy a load of wool and she could make things for this charity & feel useful (hopefully) as she's helping others in the process? I've found lots of wool in charity shops/ sale basket at local shop too.
Again, if you are able, maybe a voucher or pre-paid 'activity' or a course that can't be refunded as a gift for birthday/Easter/late Xmas.
I feel for you both and think it's lovely you are concerned and trying to think of ways to help. It's really hard to help someone who doesn't want/feel like they are unworthy of help 🙁 (I've been that person) & can only say looking back how greatful I am that people didn't give up on me. Hope your Mum is feeling better soon.

isagrey64 · 10/02/2017 04:11

This reply has been deleted

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everythingburrito · 10/02/2017 08:13

She is suffering from mental illness and she needs to go to her GP. You say she refuses to go to the doctor - does she "believe" in depression etc?

If you could get her to do the questionnaire that doctors use to see how depressed someone is she might realise she needs help.

I've had depression for 15+ years and this is definitely it.

VivDeering · 10/02/2017 08:19

A lot of replies seemed to be aimed at the mum - take up this, take up that, should do this, could do that... but none of this helps OP.

Phoebefromfriends · 10/02/2017 08:23

You could try your local hospital, they often have an admin bank and are willing to employ people of different ages.

GinAndFrolics · 10/02/2017 10:27

Good morning everyone, thanks for replying.

Joyofscreamingjoy - the thing about money though is that actually DM and DF are quite comfortable financially. They're not rich by any means, but she really doesn't need to worry so much. I know a lot of this is because she now feels more dependent on DF, so hopefully if we keep trying with finding her a job, even part-time, that will alleviate some of her concerns.

Knit aid and the vouchers/pre-paid activities are good ideas Smile.

I'm sorry you've had that experience, it's really not easy. You are probably a stronger person now having gone through that. I feel that it's so important to never give up on someone, no matter how difficult it may become.

I agree everythingburrito. She does believe in depression, she's told me herself she knows she has it. I think the whole not seeking help thing is a combination of believing that nothing/no-one can help, or that she's not worth helping, but also she's always had a thing about doctors, she won't go. I can't work out if it's because she's scared or if she doesn't like opening up. Maybe it's a combination of both.

I may try with the questionnaire, just to show her on paper. I do feel that she will come back with the usual answers of "I don't want pills and how is telling someone how shit my life is going to help me?". I have suggested meditation and mindfulness, talked about CBT and how that can help... sigh

Good idea Phoebefromfriends. I did that as summer work when I was at uni, don't know why I didn't think of it sooner. Thank you!

Viv - I am finding the replies and suggestions helpful, even if they're not aimed at me. Even if it's something I've tried before, at least I know others would do the same, which is somewhat reassuring. What do you think PPs should be saying? (I'm not being sarcastic, text doesn't convey tone, I am genuinely interested in what you think)

OP posts:
VivDeering · 10/02/2017 12:47

Smile I think that people should be encouraging you to think about why you feel such a degree of responsibility for your mum. This dynamic, where she complains to you but won't take steps to address her situation herself, is not a healthy one. There's a drama triangle going on and you providing your mum with endless suggestions is not the answer. Instead we should be encouraging you to stop playing your part in the drama triangle.

VivDeering · 10/02/2017 12:48

I would ask whether you are finding these replies helpful because they reinforce your role in this game.

needapaddle · 10/02/2017 12:57

I find it a bit worrying that you think that about 'older' women and employment prospects! I'm in my mid forties and have only just worked out what I want to do and retrained for it. The course I did had older men and women on it (up to and even past 60!!), all of whom also embarked on new careers.

Plus if future earning potential is not a barrier to her & also she is not desperately needing to be earning straight away then there are tons of courses at local colleges for mature students to retrain in new areas or learn things to start their own business - from arts and crafts based stuff to web design or accountancy, all sorts!

It is very sad that if with financial security and time on her hands (the two things I am sadly lacking right now!) she feels her life is shit, I hope you can encourage her to make a change. Good luck!

Zaphodsotherhead · 10/02/2017 13:01

I feel for her on the job front - mid fifties here (with a very good degree) and employment is practically impossible to find. I work in the local Co Op (which is why I can't afford to heat my house - thread derail alert), but I agree with poster above, supermarkets are quite often desperate for older people with a good work ethic, so as an employment possibility there's always that.

However, if she's depressed then everything is going to be too much bother to start with. Maybe start small, just getting out of the house, working up to siging up to something...does she like animals? A pet (particularly a dog) is an excellent way to meet other people, get out of the house and be more active, which would be a start.

MrsRedFly · 10/02/2017 13:07

re the volunteering would your DM consider Homestart?

I volunteer with them & have found it really rewarding, you get training & then matched with a family. You support the family - from anything from just a chat & cup of tea, playing with children, taking then shopping, baby groups etc

You can be with the family until the youngest is 5.

I'm sure you've had lots of ideas if what your DM could/should do but unless DM is keen I don't think anything will change. My friends got their DF to walk their dog to get him out & active as he wouldn't consider any of their ideas. Good idea - however, that's all he does and he doesn't actually get the dog to walk just shuffle about - so when they want to go for a proper walk they have to drag the dog along like a sulky teenager!

Good luck!

GinAndFrolics · 10/02/2017 13:25

Viv - yes, I see your point. I flip flop back and forth if I'm honest. At the end of the day, she's my mum and I love her and I think I'll always come back to falling in that role. Looking at it, out of all my siblings, I do it the most. I agree that it's not a healthy situation. Do you have any advice or suggestions?

needapaddle - sorry, I'm not sure what is "worrying". I certainly don't think of the 40 - 50 age group as "old". I was just giving a bit of background, from my own experience, of what I've seen not just with DM, but also a couple of colleagues, that it is much more difficult. This was in anticipation of what I thought would be people coming on and telling me to tell her to "just get a job".

I also think it's difficult for young people as well (heck, it took me ages to find something after uni). That's the economy and the fact that people are living and working longer. All I meant was, when you come out of a long-term position with only ten or so years left until retirement, companies do seem less keen to employ you. Again, it may be different in different sectors and areas of the country. A complete general observation based on my own personal experience. It's been demoralising for her and her confidence has been knocked. She was so determined and motivated about job hunting before.

RE: financial security, from her point of view they aren't. But she's always been a bit like that. It's one of those mindsets that is ingrained I think, so unlikely to change.

I agree with you needapaddle. It is frustrating that she can't see that also. There are no limits unless you put them there yourself, which unfortunately my DM is doing. I wish she were more like you and others and took that leap. Believe me, I have tried.

OP posts:
GinAndFrolics · 10/02/2017 14:05

Zaphodsotherhead - sorry you're experiencing similar on the job front. I will suggest supermarkets. But like you say, it may be necessary to start small and work up. I like your idea about a pet/dog. She has toed-and-froed with getting a dog, I could push her a bit more. It would provide companionship as well. And as you say, get her out and more active.

Thanks MrsRedFly. I will look into HomeStart and send some info to her, sounds interesting.

Haha at the sulky teenager dog! That's my worry with DM, that she and the dog would bring each other down...I guess it's about finding the right personality. Maybe we can visit a couple of rescues or something.

Does anyone know if they have those dog cafes in the UK? I know they have cat cafes, but we're both terribly allergic to cats. I've seen dog cafes in the States when I've been there. That could be a nice thing to do together to get her to come round to the idea of having her own dog.

OP posts:
VivDeering · 10/02/2017 14:07

Do you have any advice or suggestions?

Well, I'd explore a bit further your thoughts on, "Looking at it, out of all my siblings, I do it the most." What examples do you have of this? What's your earliest memory of you playing this role?
You could research the Drama Triangle?
You could have a think about what would happen if you stopped playing this out and what feelings you have towards your answer.

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