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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

It's not abuse but...

71 replies

montgomerysleftpaw · 03/02/2017 10:48

I'm sure it's not good, just need some outside perspectives ... I feel completely at sea. It's v long- please bear with me...

Met DP in 2015. He's older than me, divorced and never wanted children. We were using contraception, but life being what it is, and no method being perfect, Conceived v quickly (not planned- in fact my gynae suspected I may have fertility issues and we'd talked about investigating before I got to a point of wanting a family. So shocked is an understatement) and decided after much soul searching/ arguments and me giving DP lots of space to work things out, decided to keep the baby. I told him he didn't have to be involved, I wouldn't hold it against him if he couldn't commit to us as a family, but I wouldn't let him be half heartedly in it- we were together and a family, we were separated but coparenting fully, or I was on my own. He chose to try and be a family.

Now DS is 5 months and a lovely easy and very sunny baby. I had an easy labour and postpartum didnt get the blues, let alone PND (which was expected as had antenatal depression). My recovery has been straightforward and life looking after DS is something I'm really enjoying- despite it being v different to my party / high pressure job/ half marathon training/ dance class/ more partying/ more work life before!! I feel more fulfilled looking after DS than I ever did at work. So the baby is not part of the problem.

The problem is DP.

He's always been a drinker. I realised he was an alcoholic after DS was born. I found hidden whiskey bottles a few weeks ago. When I confronted DP about it he said it wasn't a problem. Because he's never drunk and he doesn't drink in the mornings. He's in complete denial- but agreed to "cut back" on the drinking. I told him he either got sober or we were over. For a few weeks the drinking was cut down to a bottle of beer and a glass of wine in the evening- rather than 2 beers, 2/3s a bottle of wine and a couple of whiskeys.

Because of the drinking, I have never left DS alone with DP. I worry that he isn't "with it" enough to be a safe parent, and for the same reason, we sleep separately (I cosleep and can't have him in bed with us if he's bee drinking obviously).

DP also has an as yet partly undiagnosed health issue. Symptoms are generalised but include extreme pain in limbs and joints, fatigue and generally being run down. I've been to endless appointments with GPs, neurologists, and even to A&E with him (attack of neuralgia that it took morphine to dull) many times - when heavily pregnant and with DS in tow. He insists that nobody is taking him seriously about the level of pain he's in- but they are. Sadly NHS resources mean he isn't high up the list of priorities enough for carpal tunnel surgery or surgery on his spinal stenosis (which are responsible for some of the pain, though not all of his symptoms).

He has a very heavy duty though creative job which takes a lot out of him, which is why his body is knackered - yet refuses to move onto
Less strenuous projects because he likes the prestige of what he does now. (I consider this v selfish, given how his health issues are impacting on family lie)

Because he's often in pain, DP goes to bed early, leaving me with DS. He is also often too fatigued to stay awake in the afternoons on weekends. This makes me feel quite lonely.

He also has to be asked or directed to interact with or do anything m for the baby- so "here hold your son", "give him a cuddle" "tell him you love him" etc. If it's a choice between occupying the baby and doing the laundry- hell do the laundry. He'll do anything for us domestically- and more than his fair share in that sense- but very little direct interaction with DS without being instructed.
He loves his son- I'm certain - but he had a terrible childhood and clearly has no idea how to behave as a father.

We do argue occasionally but i try and keep it to a minimum as I'm v conscious the baby will pick up on stress. So it's done quietly, in another room, and less often than DPs behaviour warrants.

Yesterday felt like the last straw.

DP had gp appt in the morning. I had smear and baby vaccinations at the same surgery an hour and a half later. DP went to his appt and came home. The baby was in a bit of a state and had cried himself into a projectile vomit rage twice and I was worried we'd be late. I have a cold DS has given me, and generally exhausted from almost 5 months of basically solo parenting 24/7. So was v snappy with DP when he came home moaning that the GP didn't know what was wrong with him but had ordered tests and given him new painkillers. He was just so... Self indulgent!!! He then forgot he'd offered to come back to Drs to look after DS while I had smear and settled himself down on the sofa.

I flounced off to Drs- baby couldn't have vax because he'd had a fever in the last 7 days. I had to have v painful smear with baby on my chest (he wouldn't settle in the pram) and nurse said it was painful because I'm still not fully healed (!!!!) bleeding etc after.

Get back home and DP is DRUNK at 3pm. He says he's had one whiskey .... That he's washed his new tablets down with (!!!!!!!)
Furious and feeling shitty from the smear, I take baby into the living room, and look after him alone while DP sleeps it off in the study. He turns up in the living room at 8pm after DS is asleep, presumably because he heard dinner was in the offing. I tell him to fuck right off, hand him
The whiskey bottle and suggest he drinks himself to death (I know, I know not nice) so I can get on with Looking after DS in peace.
It escalates a bit (quietly) and he thrusts his face in mine (he does this because I grew up with an abusive father and knows it scares me)- and I tell him to get out.

He goes back to the study,, I go for a quiet cry in the bathroom away from
DS (who is still asleep in his crib in the next room) and then DP comes back to the bathroom to ask what's wrong?!?! He then denies
He was drunk, denies he acted threateningly, and says that he was just "standing up to me" (?!?!? Standing up to my telling him I was ashamed of his drinking, and ashamed of his behaviour as a father, presumably)

I just don't know what to do. He had a shitty childhood. He has a drink
problem. He's definitely on the autistic spectrum (other behaviours suggest this) and he has health issues. He is also clever, and is usually a very kind man, who loves us but has no idea how to be a family- I love him and think we could all Have a marvellous life together, but I don't want to damage my beautiful, sunny, carefree boy, trying to help his father sort his shit out.

What on earth do I do????

OP posts:
Montgomerysleftpaw · 05/02/2017 21:14

random that is an excellent point. I'm usually v gd with words - or as DP likes to put it 'good at trapping people with words' (?!) . Just feel lost for them at the minute.

And thankyou

OP posts:
Shallishanti · 05/02/2017 21:25

well done OP
try and find an al-anon where you are, not sure how you would do that but I'm sure others know.

Montgomerysleftpaw · 05/02/2017 21:36

shalli local meeting is in the evening... DS EBF and won't settle without me, so for the time being, can't go. But DM / DSF will happily take DS while I call al anon for phone support any time. They're being brilliant- and wonderfully not being horrible about DP. Just disappointed in him, as I am.

OP posts:
Adarajames · 06/02/2017 01:32

You sound like a strong, intelligent, caring and decisive woman and mother, getting out so quickly when initially were talking of staying until June, your son should grow up knowing you put him and his welfare first, I hope he's as proud of you in the years to come as he should be, well done you Smile Flowers

MiscellaneousAssortment · 06/02/2017 03:03

If he feels so 'trapped' by being asked to stop drinking then you need to walk away.

Which you have, so well done.

The reality is, only an addict feels 'trapped' by the idea of not being able to drink. I'm afraid the proof of his addiction and priorities are all there in that whining blame-y selfishness.

My stbxh was often so fucked he wasn't capable of being safe around the baby, let alone being safe with the baby. I tried so hard to facilitate their relationship but I had to be on constant high alert and couldn't ever leave him unsupervised or rely on him for even the most basic of things. You said it so well that 'the only times ...

I hung into the dream of the potential he had, the potential we had together. But in the end it became very clear that he wasn't interested in making that beautiful dream come true.

He wanted, and fought tooth and claw, to stay on his downwards trajectory. I got out before he took DS and me with him on that road to hell, but we both live with the scars.

I don't think DS remembers the Xmas present his father turned up with (12hrs late), on that last Christmas, and how it had gone in the morning, taken back to the shop so that selfish revolting man could use the money on himself. But DS remembers other stuff, like the shouting and the anger Sad

Last I heard he was a stinking shambling mess. Homeless, jobless, and of course, still an addict. Doing whatever he can to fuel his addiction, and I do mean 'whatever'. Criminal. Ugh.

It's hard to live with that double vision, of what he could have been (which is what I saw in him for the 8 years of my rose tinted hopeful glasses), and what he made himself become.

I hope he'll turn it around, but sadly, I don't think he will, as there doesn't seem to be a depth he won't stoop to, no rock bottom he can't dig himself down through to get to a deeper level.

It's horrible and you are well out of anything like that. You and your beautiful, innocent, undamaged baby. Keep strong.

Iamdobby63 · 06/02/2017 09:17

You've done the right thing OP, it's not a healthy environment for you or your baby.

It's up to him now, if he loves and misses you then he will do whatever is necessary to resolve this, but he needs to prove it first.

Did I read it right, he was drinking then drove you to the station?

Stay strong and when and if you doubt yourself re read the thread.

Flowers
Montgomerysleftpaw · 06/02/2017 09:49

dobby it did read that way didn't it Blush but no. I hailed a black cab (we're lucky enough that the house is in C London) and he jumped in with us. You know. Because he wanted to help Hmm

Am reading this thread a lot. Because with distance am wondering if his problem is as big as it felt when I was there. But it must have been- otherwise I wouldn't have felt like I had to leave. Whether he's a dictionary definition alcoholic or not, he and I certainly are not on the same page about what constitutes a good father, and partner.

OP posts:
Montgomerysleftpaw · 06/02/2017 09:53

assortment it sounds like your ExH was much more of the classic alcoholic than DP- who has thank god- never been quite such an arse. But I worry that's the way it was going to go. I'm sorry you and your DC have had to live through that- and that your dreams didn't come true (how rarely they do, it seems).

But you sound like you and your DS have a happier life without him, and that's the happy ending right?

Im not sure where this will end with DP. Maybe he'll
Surprise us all and a) admit there's a problem then b)get some help. But until that happens, I won't, can't, will not go back.

OP posts:
pocketsaviour · 06/02/2017 10:07

It's very tempting to hold out hope for a miraculous recovery. And because we probably all know at least one person who's made a recovery, it feels like it should definitely happen, because surely, surely this person that we loved will see that he's lost us and wake up and smell the coffee, right?

Unfortunately recovery is hard and many times it doesn't happen. In your shoes I would be saying to him that you won't even consider discussing any resumption of your relationship until he's been sober and attending meetings (or having other treatment such as AntAbuse) for at least ONE YEAR.

During that year, you will also get a sense of how committed he is to changing, and his attitude to your DS. Because from what he's said so far, it doesn't sound like he's going to bother with contact :(

He sounds very very similar to my ex. I thank god I never got pregnant with him (and we had been TTC.) The passive aggressive "Well you won't let me, will you" stuff is him to a tee. He was another one who claimed he didn't have a problem because he didn't drink during the day.

Keep going, OP. You've taken the first steps in building a better life for you and DS.

Iamdobby63 · 06/02/2017 10:08

I'm so glad he wasn't attempting to drive you.

I wouldn't expect too much from him right now as he will probably think he can get around you and get you home.

It doesn't matter if he is a text book alcoholic or not - his drinking is clearly affecting him, his marriage, his partner and his child. I don't know if his drinking is as a result of his bad health or is causing a lot of it. But if it is the first then that is also a road to nowhere to drink pain away, be it physical or emotional - equally it certainly won't help his physical health in any case.

Stay strong, you have done the right thing.

keepingonrunning · 06/02/2017 10:12

He's abusive. It doesn't matter why, he has choices how to behave.
Please don't fall into the trap of making excuses for him. He's an adult, responsible for his own behaviour and health.
Is he diagnosed autistic? If not, I suspect you are trying to explain away his emotional and psychological abuse to make sense of it.
You can live half a life with this man or set yourself free to live a full life with someone who respects you, your DS, themselves and family life. Stay and your energy will be exhausted trying to change him, then meeting DS's needs. Your needs won't get a look in.
Is this the role model you want for your son? Flowers

keepingonrunning · 06/02/2017 10:29

. . . so glad you have got out. I expect the distance will help you see your life clearly.

Montgomerysleftpaw · 06/02/2017 21:50

Just coming here to feel sad. Doing the jolly mummy thing for DS all day, and trying not to let DM see how broken I feel. Unpacked my bags today, and feel like at 30, with a small baby, how have I ended up back in my family home?! DS wouldn't settle in his crib in the living room tonight, so had to bring him to bed at 8, and been sat binging Netflix and feeling furious with DP ever since.

How is it possible that he doesn't think he's caused this?! How can he just go about his business without us at home, and be okay?! (I don't know that he is, just surmising).

Keep thinking of all the ways he's a selfish fucker, and getting more and more cross.

Then I remember all the ways he's really wonderful, and miss him like mad.

Fucking fucking twat for being such a weak fucking twat.

Scuse the language.

OP posts:
Montgomerysleftpaw · 06/02/2017 21:51

Watching Vikings probably wasn't the best idea...

OP posts:
Montgomerysleftpaw · 06/02/2017 21:57

running...

You've hit the nail on the head, really. Not just with the drink, in all senses it feels like I was looking after DS and DP- but nobody was looking after me. If we went out, He never offered to hold the baby while I ate. Ever. That really bothers me. It's such a small thing but seemed so telling.

Used to spend hours talking about DPs life before - and he would never ever ask about mine. I would tell him stories, but always offered, he never asked. And any of my hang ups or neurosis from y childhood (abusive step father) would be met with an "I'm not him".

Yet I could give you a thousand examples of ways I was mindful of his shitty childhood.

I always have to/ had to be okay- if I was having a bad day, the world fell apart. The pressure was just immense.

OP posts:
Prawnofthepatriarchy · 06/02/2017 22:44

I'm an alcoholic. I stopped drinking in the first year of my marriage because it was clear that unless I did my marriage was going to fail.

If this man really cares he will go to AA and fight to get sober. If he can't be arsed you have your answer.

keepingonrunning · 06/02/2017 23:49

Bravo Prawn. Huge admission.

KatieMoragsMum · 07/02/2017 00:18

You've had lots of useful advice here already, but I just wanted to add that I have been to lots of 12 Step Meetings with my baby, and it has never been a problem. So taking him along might be possible. When my baby was tiny, he'd just breastfeed or doze in my arms or sling, then as he got older I'd take a couple of books/ quiet toys and a snack to keep him occupied. I was always welcomed with open arms and baby too.

Al-Anon gave me good support and insight into some of the issues I was dealing with, I do recommend giving it a try. Good luck with your journey.

Trethew · 08/02/2017 09:54

This all sounds horribly familiar. I finally divorced him and left with DS11 and DD9. Should have done it years earlier but I kept thinking "if i try harder it might improve". But of course it didn't. Fool wasn't I.

But to give you hope Montgomery - that was over 20 years ago. DCs now grown up and in good jobs. They see their father but have little respect for him, more pity and disappointment if anything. For me the bitterness and fury have gone and though he still drinks (nearly a bottle of spirits a day, plus wine or beer if he's out) there are glimpses of the lovely man I married. I feel sad at what could have been, and what he has become but we are good friends now. I'm more like a big sister to him.

montgomerysleftpaw · 28/02/2017 21:37

Hi all- wee update- please be kind/ don't flame me

Back at home with dp after 3 weeks away with family. We had little contact in that time but DP went back to therapy (unprompted) called my DM regularly to check we were okay (he knew I needed space), and kept sending money (unasked) so we weren't relying on my family/ could go away to the beach for a few days etc.

In those 3 weeks i was contacted by my hospital for a colposcopy due to abnormal smear, so had to return to London for biopsy etc. Decided to stay in town and come home to DP- as may need further treatment (awaiting biopsy results) and was surprised to find the house cleared of booze, and DP -while not a changed man- in the midst of a Damascene moment.

He has been seeing his therapist twice weekly, and they are working through his many childhood traumas, that make normal family life alien to him. He has also been for more tests for his health issues and finally is approaching diagnosis under the care of a rheumatologist. He is drinking very very very lightly (glass of wine with dinner, no hard spirits) - and has asked every time if it's okay.

This is all not to "get me back"- but changes he wants to make for our son.

So ..... Carefully, with lots of thought, I've decided to give things one last shot. And he knows this is IT. One fuck up, and it's the end of the line. This was his call as well as mine- he feels that if he can't make and keep these changes this time, he doesn't want to drag us down with him- but he insists that it won't come to that. In more sanguine but hope he's right.

We've agreed the following "rules":

  • no hard spirits. Wine and beer only in mutually agreed appropriate situations. Not first thing in coming home. Not in the middle of the day etc. Never any drink when there is a chance I will ask him to be solely responsible for childcare.
-he will remove himself from the home when he begins to feel any anger building if we have a disagreement, and return only when he is calm -therapy weekly - also possibly couples therapy (tbc) -he will do more childcare when I'm home - to build a foundation of trust, so I feel I can leave DS with him -we re to review his work situation every few months, and if we feel his health is becoming overly impacted by his current projects, he will wind them down

In return, I'm going to respect his need for space of we have disagreements, and trust he is being truthful about his drinking / not drinking. And not throw the past back at him constantly. I believe the hackneyed term "a fresh start" is in order.....

So..... Not saying it will work. Not believing leopards change their spots. But hoping between us we can find a way to be a healthy, happy family. And if we can't this time, it's game over.

But thank you all for being so supportive, kind and helpful. You're wonderful.

OP posts:
Wishiwasmoiradingle2017 · 28/02/2017 21:42

Sounds like all the right ingredients for a good last chance. .
Hope it all works out for you all. .

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