Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

It's not abuse but...

71 replies

montgomerysleftpaw · 03/02/2017 10:48

I'm sure it's not good, just need some outside perspectives ... I feel completely at sea. It's v long- please bear with me...

Met DP in 2015. He's older than me, divorced and never wanted children. We were using contraception, but life being what it is, and no method being perfect, Conceived v quickly (not planned- in fact my gynae suspected I may have fertility issues and we'd talked about investigating before I got to a point of wanting a family. So shocked is an understatement) and decided after much soul searching/ arguments and me giving DP lots of space to work things out, decided to keep the baby. I told him he didn't have to be involved, I wouldn't hold it against him if he couldn't commit to us as a family, but I wouldn't let him be half heartedly in it- we were together and a family, we were separated but coparenting fully, or I was on my own. He chose to try and be a family.

Now DS is 5 months and a lovely easy and very sunny baby. I had an easy labour and postpartum didnt get the blues, let alone PND (which was expected as had antenatal depression). My recovery has been straightforward and life looking after DS is something I'm really enjoying- despite it being v different to my party / high pressure job/ half marathon training/ dance class/ more partying/ more work life before!! I feel more fulfilled looking after DS than I ever did at work. So the baby is not part of the problem.

The problem is DP.

He's always been a drinker. I realised he was an alcoholic after DS was born. I found hidden whiskey bottles a few weeks ago. When I confronted DP about it he said it wasn't a problem. Because he's never drunk and he doesn't drink in the mornings. He's in complete denial- but agreed to "cut back" on the drinking. I told him he either got sober or we were over. For a few weeks the drinking was cut down to a bottle of beer and a glass of wine in the evening- rather than 2 beers, 2/3s a bottle of wine and a couple of whiskeys.

Because of the drinking, I have never left DS alone with DP. I worry that he isn't "with it" enough to be a safe parent, and for the same reason, we sleep separately (I cosleep and can't have him in bed with us if he's bee drinking obviously).

DP also has an as yet partly undiagnosed health issue. Symptoms are generalised but include extreme pain in limbs and joints, fatigue and generally being run down. I've been to endless appointments with GPs, neurologists, and even to A&E with him (attack of neuralgia that it took morphine to dull) many times - when heavily pregnant and with DS in tow. He insists that nobody is taking him seriously about the level of pain he's in- but they are. Sadly NHS resources mean he isn't high up the list of priorities enough for carpal tunnel surgery or surgery on his spinal stenosis (which are responsible for some of the pain, though not all of his symptoms).

He has a very heavy duty though creative job which takes a lot out of him, which is why his body is knackered - yet refuses to move onto
Less strenuous projects because he likes the prestige of what he does now. (I consider this v selfish, given how his health issues are impacting on family lie)

Because he's often in pain, DP goes to bed early, leaving me with DS. He is also often too fatigued to stay awake in the afternoons on weekends. This makes me feel quite lonely.

He also has to be asked or directed to interact with or do anything m for the baby- so "here hold your son", "give him a cuddle" "tell him you love him" etc. If it's a choice between occupying the baby and doing the laundry- hell do the laundry. He'll do anything for us domestically- and more than his fair share in that sense- but very little direct interaction with DS without being instructed.
He loves his son- I'm certain - but he had a terrible childhood and clearly has no idea how to behave as a father.

We do argue occasionally but i try and keep it to a minimum as I'm v conscious the baby will pick up on stress. So it's done quietly, in another room, and less often than DPs behaviour warrants.

Yesterday felt like the last straw.

DP had gp appt in the morning. I had smear and baby vaccinations at the same surgery an hour and a half later. DP went to his appt and came home. The baby was in a bit of a state and had cried himself into a projectile vomit rage twice and I was worried we'd be late. I have a cold DS has given me, and generally exhausted from almost 5 months of basically solo parenting 24/7. So was v snappy with DP when he came home moaning that the GP didn't know what was wrong with him but had ordered tests and given him new painkillers. He was just so... Self indulgent!!! He then forgot he'd offered to come back to Drs to look after DS while I had smear and settled himself down on the sofa.

I flounced off to Drs- baby couldn't have vax because he'd had a fever in the last 7 days. I had to have v painful smear with baby on my chest (he wouldn't settle in the pram) and nurse said it was painful because I'm still not fully healed (!!!!) bleeding etc after.

Get back home and DP is DRUNK at 3pm. He says he's had one whiskey .... That he's washed his new tablets down with (!!!!!!!)
Furious and feeling shitty from the smear, I take baby into the living room, and look after him alone while DP sleeps it off in the study. He turns up in the living room at 8pm after DS is asleep, presumably because he heard dinner was in the offing. I tell him to fuck right off, hand him
The whiskey bottle and suggest he drinks himself to death (I know, I know not nice) so I can get on with Looking after DS in peace.
It escalates a bit (quietly) and he thrusts his face in mine (he does this because I grew up with an abusive father and knows it scares me)- and I tell him to get out.

He goes back to the study,, I go for a quiet cry in the bathroom away from
DS (who is still asleep in his crib in the next room) and then DP comes back to the bathroom to ask what's wrong?!?! He then denies
He was drunk, denies he acted threateningly, and says that he was just "standing up to me" (?!?!? Standing up to my telling him I was ashamed of his drinking, and ashamed of his behaviour as a father, presumably)

I just don't know what to do. He had a shitty childhood. He has a drink
problem. He's definitely on the autistic spectrum (other behaviours suggest this) and he has health issues. He is also clever, and is usually a very kind man, who loves us but has no idea how to be a family- I love him and think we could all Have a marvellous life together, but I don't want to damage my beautiful, sunny, carefree boy, trying to help his father sort his shit out.

What on earth do I do????

OP posts:
Montgomerysleftpaw · 03/02/2017 18:02

Got 5 mins so just to answer some questions/ observations

Yes my father was terrible. As was my stepfather. I've had lots of therapy over the last 15 years, and am very aware of the cyclical nature of abuse and the tendency of victims to seek out the familiar. I had thought DP was very different. It's only since DS was born that much of this has come to light. Maybe on a subconscious level I could sense these familiarities- or maybe I just care more now DS is here. Also I guess since my childhood was marred by more obvious abuse (physical, and mental in less subtle ways) I've been so busy looking for those kinds, I missed these signs.

also - DP is not a violent man. He has a bad temper but directs it inwards- he's an explosive anger type but it tends to be frustration at himself and he has in the past knocked his own head off the wall (very concerning behaviour I know). That was the incident that prompted my insistence he saw a psychotherapist.

I can't emphasise enough how DS is my first priority. I know how damaged I am by DMs failure to leave abusive partners. I won't subject DS to the same.

DS was an unexpected baby- but he's a gift. When I found out I was pregnant, I immediately stopped drinking, smoking, I was borderline anorexic and began eating again. I stopped my "partying" and if I'm honest - after a bout of antenatal depression at 4/5 months, by my third trimester I found a peace is never realised I was missing. When he was born everything fell into place, and I guess I fell in love, grew up, and almost "found myself" all in one moment. I know that sounds cheesy. But it's true!!! Being DSs mother is the great honour of my life. And he deserves the moon on a stick,

DP came home this afternoon finally admitting he had been drunk yesterday, and he did get in my face (though insists it was accidental.......) . He says he fucked up, and he's sorry and we can work through it.

I took all of your excellent advice into account and used it to explain why our relationship was unhealthy and why he won't change for me ...

Oops hold on, DS awake again- TBC

OP posts:
Montgomerysleftpaw · 03/02/2017 19:39

... How he only ever admits there's a problem when I point out there is one (and then only after days of denying it). How he thinks being domestically helpful is as good as being a hands on dad (I appreciate his help with chores, but if he would just spend some quality time with DS unasked, I wouldn't care if he never washed a sock again).

And of course how I spend my life as a pp said- fire fighting, crisis managing and waiting for the next disaster.

Theres no way I can leave immediately. I sold my property and paid off the mortgage when I fell pregnant, and moved in with DP. I need to get my financial ducks in a row before I go anywhere.

I have no debts, and some savings (about 4K) but my profession though v well paid, is freelance and sometimes precarious- not to mention restricted to major cities. It's currently in flux due to Brexit and other economic variables, so I may need to consider a more stable job for a time, when I do return to work: I would need to move back to my hometown for a while so family can help with childcare.

I think at the moment, best plan is to stay put but start to detach from DP.

Ill encourage him to return to therapy and join AA, but no longer engage emotionally. I won't cajole or bargain with him to stop drinking- nor will I turn a blind eye- I may ask to implement a rule where if I feel his drinking is problematic, he remove himself from our home until he is sobered up. (He would do this. When I've asked him to leave previously to sober up, he has).

The aim is to be in a position by the end of my stat mat pay in June, to have saved enough from Mat pay and the (admittedly generous) money DP gives me for me and the baby to enjoy ourselves, to move out and relocate in my home county in the summer.

I very much want him to be an active parent to DS. And if he can sober up, and stay sober, we can talk about joint custody when DS is older- with unlimited supervised access in the meantime.

I love DP. He is a truly truly excellent human being in many ways, and it devastates me to think of leaving him- but you are all correct. He loves booze more than us, and since I love DS more than anything- it can't go on. I hope we'll stay friends for all our sakes - but I don't think being a family in the way I'd hoped is going to be on the cards for us. I'll never regret my time with him- we've made a gorgeous boy together, and I'll always love him for his intrinsic "good" bits- just can't let his broken-ness and self indulgence sully DS- or indeed me.

OP posts:
Montgomerysleftpaw · 03/02/2017 23:12

So just tried to talk to DP about how we move forward. He said I was just "beating him over the head with the drink thing" as he "hadnt had a drink all day"... Therefore he hasn't got a problem.

I suggested getting rid of all the alcohol in the house and he told me it was "wasteful" and couldn't understand why I would do that. (??)

Then I said that as he couldn't see there was a problem, we needed to talk about separating. I asked why he even wanted us to be together- and couldn't answer for me. He said I "never have given him a chance" and whatever he did was never good enough (ie I dont let the drinking go over my head).

I asked how involved he would want to be with DS going forward and his answer was "well you won't let me will you, because you don't trust me alone with him". When I told him I'd do anything at all to facilitate their relationship, provided he was sober his answer was that apparently I now "had him where I wanted him. Trapped. You want me to be sober and never have a drink again. This is some evil mind game you're playing...."

Just goes from bad to worse doesn't it...

OP posts:
Sweets101 · 03/02/2017 23:16

If you have a thread title saying 'It's not abuse but...' chances are it is and you need to get out. Having read your posts, it is and you need to get out.

Sweets101 · 03/02/2017 23:17

DB is an alcoholic. No good will come of this for you or DS. You need to leave. There is no grey area, you just need to leave.

Beelzebop · 03/02/2017 23:33

Hello OP, really sorry that your family is going through this. Another poster has mentioned this, but his physical symptoms could point to physical damage caused by long term alcohol abuse. Has he been honest with Dr's? To be fair though, they may have worked it out. Please be careful. My instincts, having lived in a family with one or two alcoholics, are that he should leave then try and sort it. He's putting you in danger, and your family xx.

Montgomerysleftpaw · 03/02/2017 23:47

Just text my best mate and asked her to meet me for lunch tomorrow- and I sort of feel like that's the first step to leaving. Talking to her about it. Sort of makes it real.

I had read about alcoholic neuropathy before. He definitely underestimates his units when talking to doctors. By a considerable margin. He told me the GP yesterday asked about his bladder function- which could be a sign they've thought of it, or they could be asking for spinal cord damage from
The stenosis I guess. I actually showed DP the symptoms list and he went a bit vague and mumbled something about taking vitamin D for a deficiency Hmm

I know we need to leave. It's breaking my heart- but it's better that than breaking my son, right??

OP posts:
Montgomerysleftpaw · 03/02/2017 23:55

Oh And it will be us moving out. We're not married and this is dps house. His studio is also on the premises with some unique equipment that is his sole income- so I have no legal right (nor would I have the heart) to insist he leaves. His family are all dead and his friends mainly artists and creatives who flit about So he wouldn't have a stable place to go- whereas I have lots of options with family and friends.

OP posts:
hellsbellsmelons · 04/02/2017 09:19

I'm sorry he's not listening to you.
I think we were all hoping for him to get that light bulb moment.
But it's not going to happen.
You have good plans in place for a better future for you and your DS.
Keep going!
Keep strong.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 04/02/2017 09:30

I knew he was not going to have an epiphany and he perhaps never will either. Those conversations played out pretty much as expected really, like many alcoholics he is in total denial. He is also not above blaming you either.

I would leave with your son asap; staying till June is not really a good option for you or your son. You need to leave before then really, call in favours from your family and friends. Meet your friend for lunch today, talk to others. Alcoholism as well thrives on secrecy.

Do not encourage him to join AA or return to therapy; he is not interested and it will be a waste of time on your part. Leave him to his house; he will likely lose that at some point as well. Look at his friends carefully OP; I would think the majority of them are drinkers as well.

ChuckSnowballs · 04/02/2017 09:32

I used to be with someone who would say 'see I can have an evening and not drink' and on the way back from wherever we were at used to helpfully suggest a quick look into the 'pub's nickname' to see who was still around.

Hmm...

He still hides bottles under the bed according to an old mate. 25 odd years later.

Anyway - he is obviously not seeing that he is an alcoholic. Not having a drink for one day does not prove that he isn't! Until he accepts this himself there is nothing you can do and it can only ever get worse from here on in.

ChuckSnowballs · 04/02/2017 09:33

I know we need to leave. It's breaking my heart- but it's better that than breaking my son, right??

Yes.

Keeptrudging · 04/02/2017 09:43

Just out of interest, did you both used to drink a lot together, so his drinking wasn't as noticeable before? If you've had a massive lifestyle change because you had to, and are suddenly 'dry', maybe he's not alcoholic (or at least not newly), it's just there's a huge difference in your lifestyles now that wasn't there before.

He needs to change his drinking, but he hasn't had to because he wasn't pregnant. You need to have a rational talk together, try to agree to what's acceptable. It sounds like both of you partied hard, now you've stopped that doesn't necessarily mean he's an alcoholic.

How would you have reacted before you were pregnant if someone said you had to stop drinking/go to AA because you drank heavily?

Not trying to dispute there's a big issue, I'm married to a (sober for years) alcoholic who goes to AA, if he is then AA can be amazing. Just wondering if it's as black and white as him having to not drink just because you aren't any more? It takes time to adjust to having a baby, he doesn't have the stable parenting bit/doesn't know what to do so is already behind.

Montgomerysleftpaw · 04/02/2017 19:11

Left him this afternoon. Not sure if it's forever or a trial separation but went for lunch with friend, came home and he'd been drinking. He said "only one" like that was the point. Said I keep him on such a tight leash he wants to drink more. Said he was sick of not being able to be himself. Couldn't see why I was upset about his afternoon whiskey which is "his reward for working hard and holding the home together." Because our beautiful boy isn't reward enough, I guess.

On train to family home. Have 4 hour journey. Baby won't go to sleep, I'm dressed in my walking clothes, and have mascara all over my face. In first class and everyone looking at me and my 500999 hastily packed bags like I'm a lunatic.

Fuck. Fuck. Fuck.

OP posts:
Montgomerysleftpaw · 04/02/2017 19:26

trudging

Yes. We did drink a lot together. I'm no Puritan by any means - and I guess I could have easily become an alcoholic. I still do have a small glass of wine with dinner in the evening when I know DS won't feed for hours. But it's one, and I don't have to have it - and I don't need it. I have it because it matches the food better than mint tea or whatever.

But when we agreed to stay together and raise DS together, we made a commitment to sort our shit out. For me, as well as the smoking, drinking and partying stopping (as soon as I POTS) that meant eating properly again, and revisiting CBT for anxiety. For DP that was therapy for his awful childhood, and winding down his post-divorce bachelor ways.

That's why I didn't initially ask him to stop drinking entirely- just to drink appropriately. But he can't do that. Whenever we need him, is when he needs a drink.

OP posts:
SpongeBobJudgeyPants · 04/02/2017 19:38

Will someone be able to meet you at the other end OP?

Montgomerysleftpaw · 04/02/2017 19:48

spongebob

Yes I think DM who is v supportive (and furious with DP) is coming. Hopefully with a variety of pack animals for the luggage. But I guess a cab will do.

Just realised I forgot the bloody dog. Probably for the best - got plenty to deal with and DP will look after him... But he's a lurcher. Would've been handy for the luggage.

Baby finally sleeping. He looks so pissed off. Yet another reason I suspect I'm doing the right thing.

OP posts:
SpongeBobJudgeyPants · 04/02/2017 19:50

You are doing the right thing, lovely x

onanotherday · 04/02/2017 19:55

Well doneFlowers you have done absolutely the right thing for both you and your beautiful ds. .....I didnt and it took 5 More years of gasligting and had a real impact on dcs. .. Go grab life for you both xxx

Montgomerysleftpaw · 04/02/2017 19:56

I hope so. I hope it's the right thing for him too. He's not a bad man - and I love him so very much. But I love DS more.

OP posts:
Keeptrudging · 04/02/2017 20:02

Aw, sorry that you're having to go through this. I hope you find peace and your DH gets help. What he chooses to do is entirely on him, you can't make someone change if they don't want to. Your priority has to be looking after your son and yourself. Flowers

RandomMess · 04/02/2017 20:04
Flowers

You're doing the right thing, I' glad you have family to support to you. Take one day at a time.

Montgomerysleftpaw · 04/02/2017 20:05

He dropped us off at the train station, and I told him I wasn't going to make demands, or contact him at all. What happens next is up to him. If he wants to see DS, he's welcome any time. If he goes to therapy - great- but I'm not going to try and make anything else happen. I can afford to take some time to take stock, and enjoy my mat leave with my lovely lovely boy- without his stuff to try and handle too.

OP posts:
Montgomerysleftpaw · 05/02/2017 20:55

End of day one at "home". DS loving all the attention from grandparents and the 1200999999548 neighbours that have "popped round to see the little one" (aka try and substantiate rumours of my moving back, as started by the bloody milk lady who saw us come up the drive with suitcases. Yes. There is still a milk round here).

DP sent shit text this afternoon

Hi darling I hope you are both alright
I am truly sorry for where we are now
I love you and B very much xxxx

What am I supposed to say to that?!? So far, said nothing.

OP posts:
RandomMess · 05/02/2017 20:57

"love is action not words, your actions have told me what I need to know"

Glad you and DS are "home" and being loved and looked after.

Flowers
Swipe left for the next trending thread