Is it important to have a concept of your dating league?

[darknessontheedgeoftown]

So I have recently been doing a bit of dating, mostly but not exclusively OLD. I'm early 40s(M) & for a variety of reasons didn't get the opportunity to do this in my twenties.Couple of relationships in my 30s. Now single. It has struck me that a number of the problems besetting m/f relationship s relate a skewed sense of the individuals relative value in the dating market. I've often read and heard about say 40sthg men delusionally thinking 25 year old women will be interested in them and the hurt and confusion this causes say among the 40sthg women who understandably get upset by this. I don't know what happens when the men realise they should be looking at people their own age. I also think there is a less discussed thing of people often those who have had little romantic success e.g through shyness/lack of opportunity assuming no one will be interested in them and thereby both missing out and causing others they could have had happy relationships with to miss out. Would be interested to hear what you think.

Hard I can happily say I never had a shirtless photo or a phone next to face photo. Starting to wonder if I might have actually done better if I had.

What did astonish me on Tinder were the number of women doing nothing but pouty faces in their photos (which I sort of assumed was something that was restricted to early-20s selfie-obsessed airheads). And EYEBROWS. I shall say no more.

I made a fake male profile just to scope out my female competition and I can in all honesty say my photos are among the better ones by far - some were truly alarming.

I have naturally dark eyebrows, I pluck them and use a bit of powder just to shape them but they're not like an Angry Bird or anything, and you'd be amazed how many guys comment on them. I e had quite a few first messages about my eyebrows!

Woah. I do pouty faces and I'm not 20 or airhead I just rock a good pout. Two and a half years later DP still seems to like it

I was guilty of the selfie and bathroom mirror
Though my eyebrows are normal!

I do have friends... in fact, the photos were sent to a friend for approval "smile, dammit!"

But I hate photos of myself and had to take them over and over and over (and yes, more overs ) again before I decided one was even vaguely acceptable. So that's why mine are selfies - it would have driven my friends nuts!

So I don't mind selfies... but absolutely no to shirtless, and no to pictures taken in the gym. Partly because the gym is not a big part of my life so I foresaw a personality clash and mainly because I'm not attracted to men who think I'll be attracted by their muscles. Maybe use those muscles to hold up the last book you read to tempt me in?!

Les Perhaps you do. But most people tend to say that you should use good, varied photos on a dating profile. It's your shop window to sell yourself. What's the point in having seven photos on your profile with every single one pulling a pout? Did the wind change when you were little and you stayed like that? As a man, I have to say a good smile is a really, really attractive thing - yet so many profiles are all pouts or pulling faces.

Hard It's hard to explain on here but the amount of profiles with incredibly black, very large, tattooed or incredibly obviously very thickly drawn on eyebrows surprised me.

Oh, I've taught sixth formers, I've seen terrible eyebrows roaming free in the wild! I was just surprised by how many people comment on mine, as I thought they were fairly run of the mill - defined but very much not of the "two trained slugs" style. I wouldn't have thought men cared a damn about eyebrows!

Oh HardToDeal you are making me laugh.

I go by the photos a great deal too not just the face/body but the general content and what does it say about the person as well! HATE the ones where they have clearly cropped off their last partner - that's an instant NO.

I recently dropped my 'must be over 6ft' rule and was sorely disappointed (I'm sorry to shorter men out there but it just doesn't do it for me any more) - it just doesn't work so when guys under 6 ft message me I just think what the fuck, can't you read?!!!!

I have one clear criteria if I'm in any doubt on all the other counts: I imagine what they would look like on top of me in the middle of sex. If I can't imagine it, it ain't going any further.

I do agree, there are so many factors of what makes you reply and what doesn't and what can allow things to proceed beyond that and what can't and I honestly don't think you can always tell and you could be surprised by who you fall for.

Hard Most men do. Natural or a bit of plucking, waxing, threading is fine. Tattooed, stupidly squared off or trained slugs are not appealing to most men. Obviously, it is totally up to a woman what she wants to do with her eyebrows, don't get me wrong.

Polly What if they were 5ft 11? Does that one inch really make that much difference (you, stop that giggling at the back of the class)? I knew a woman who had that rule for years and years and years. As a result, she hardly dated. So she did away with that but kept all the other dealbreakers. She's now exceptionally happily married with a guy of 5ft 10.

When I was OLD I definitely felt the ladies contacting me were a lot older looking than I'd expected. I was happier looking at and near my age (there's nothing worse than making a joke about an event, band or tv show you remember well and having someone look blankly at you!) but still, it was quite a surprise.

Maybe I'm just delusional about the league I'm actually in though

The physical attraction has to be there, but you need to be able to laugh with each other, share a general outlook on life etc. Career aspirations? Meh - my partner chose a career which will never earn her mega bucks, but she's bloody good at scrabble and can hold up her end of a conversation... and that ticks a lot of boxes for me.

You probably should never have an idea of your dating league, just as you shouldn't think a job is above you.

You should aim for what you want (without being a twat or stalking anyone, treating them as an object etc)

Interesting replies. I think part of the problem may lie in assuming that a single or even commonly expressed preference is universal. In a way I think people who have a genuine preference which might be somewhat less common have a responsibility to make others aware of it to make them aware they are not universally undesirable. I know plenty of men who specifically desire women who are for example overweight according to the media ideal, and once had a conversation with a male friend where we both agreed we found a woman with what society might call a flaw, be it say generally being insecure, shyness, an unusual shaped nose like, acne or whatever far more attractive than one without, possibly because we are very far from perfect ourselves. I do think people of both genders and orientations should take account of the feelings of others when expressing their preferences and more importantly what they don't like. This absolutely does not mean pretending to fancy people you don't by the way.

ShatnersWig in requiring 6ft I've already come down 3"!!! My last partner was 6' 3" - I'm 5' 2". I retain a minimum just simply because when I rocked up to meet Mr 5' 9" on the weekend I just felt something was missing...

...about 6 more inches.

Within that there is a massive range of what I like and whether you like it or not that someone just doesn't feel much for a shorter guy, it is what it is. I'd give you a list of celebs I like and it would be so diverse you'd think me crazy so it's not just a specific type - of course, if the person were 5' 11" it wouldn't make a difference. All I can tell you is I like 'em tall.

My XP (Mr 6' 3") only ever went out with girls under 5' 3" so go figure. Horses four courses isn't it.

I'm not talking about guys who are 1" shorter than my minimum anyway - I'm talking about the ones who are 5' 3" and still get in touch. I didn't make my profile randomly, I've put stuff in there that is highly relevant and reflects what I know about myself and what I want, and so no one has to waste their time - them or me. If I've learnt this is a preference over my 50 year lifetime then I'd be daft not to go with it and pretend I like shorter guys and waste their time going out with them only to find (as per my shorter man experiment last weekend) that it doesn't work for me.

*for

A 40+ man thinking he can date a 25yo is far from delusional

On the contrary there are not that many 25 yr olds who go for a man that much older. It does happen. But not a single one of my friends went out with anyone that age when they were in their 20s. When it does happen, usually the older man has something specific to offer - money, status, house, looks etc.

George Clooney isn't a good example, because he's goodlooking and rich and famous which most 40something men aren't.

Polly so even if heels a 5ft 10 man would be taller than you? I've known women of 5ft 7 refuse to date shorter than 6ft because they have to be taller than them when wearing heels but 5ft 2 and 6ft 3 seemed a real difference.

I've known a lot of women with that 6ft thing and they've nearly always been 5ft 5 or less. Conversely, I've never known any men insist on a a woman being a minimum height.

Well there plenty of modelisers, they may not stipulate a minimum height but their gfs all happen to be tall...

I was once chatting to a guy who told me aggressively the he didn't date anyone over 5'10". (I'm 5'11). I was a bit bemused as I had a bf and no interest in him. I've no idea whether it was a real criteria or if he just panicked.

Polly and Shatner I'm afraid I'm another who insists on over 6ft 2" tall but I'm 5ft 9" and like wearing heels. I also have a 'thing' about being taller than the person I'm walking with - it just makes me feel big and cumbersome and elephantlike! My son is 6ft 7" and likes dating women under 5ft 5" as he can carry them into the bedroom easily - however he did have a date recently with a girl of 5ft 8 and said it was really nice to walk with someone who could nearly keep up with him so he's opening up to the taller lady now !!

Thinking about it I have heard guys say they prefer tall women. But then they probably say the opposite to smaller women...

Tatiana just because someone is rich and famous doesn't mean everyone finds them physically attractive.
Danny DeVito?
Wayne Rooney?

My point is, George Clooney has wrinkles and grey hair. He is considered attractive nonetheless.
That I think transposes into non celebrity 'ordinary' life. Take the term "silver fox".

You tell me that women with grey hair can 'get away with it' just as much as men, and I'll show you a whole aisle full L'Oreal hair dye products that says it isn't true.
Yeah, there's a tiny "Just for Men" section. Tiny.

Tatiana just because someone is rich and famous doesn't mean everyone finds them physically attractive

No shit?

Nothing about Clooney transposes to normal life. He's goodlooking, very well preserved for his age, he's famous, rich and a Hollywood star. So even if he was minging he could probably find some young woman who wanted the kind of lifestyle he could provide.

I made no comment on grey hair, you must have confused me with someone else.

Jesus Shatner - what's the friggin' problem with me wanting a particular height FGS?!

Who are you tell me what height I should and shouldn't like and that there's a suitable height difference that I should adhere to?!

God almighty.

Clearly one of the people who would message me saying "Oh but I'm X ft X inches ha ha give a short guy a go?" No.

I'm not even going to justify to you or any fella who contacts me why I DO NOT LIKE MEN shorter than v v much taller than me.

And btw, just because you've not heard of the 'thing' that is v tall men who like much shorter women, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

What's next - we can all only go out with people within our own height range or what? Getting p*** off now!

So in answer to your clearly bemused answer, no 5' 10" isn't enough. 5' 9" wasn't enough. Okay?

Wow. Defensive much? I don't believe I said men stipulating a minimum height requirement don't exist. I merely stated that I've never KNOWN a man specify one. Nor was I saying what height you should or shouldn't adhere to.

Interesting thread.

I do think a lot of women believe most men are looking for very glamorous women. Probably a myth perpetuated by the media.
Hence the strong eyebrows, big pouty lips etc.
Not so long ago it was all fake tan and fake hair.

I think if you asked women what a man is looking for, they would imagine a porn star looking woman. Big tits, long hair, fake tan, massive eyebrows big pouty lips and lots of makeup.
In reality this may not be true.

I do think there is a league of sorts for both sexes.

This may involve looks but also other qualities.

Everyone has their own set of values and desires.

I had an age limit when I was old, I'm always told I look younger than I am and again I don't want to be with someone who could be mistaken for my dad!
This means I need someone either my own age or younger, or a good looking older man.

One thing I did reject men on was if there pictures were old.
Anyone who had nice hair in one but was bald of loosing genie hair in another was Instantly rejected.

Why use d photos, we could all do that.
Also I looked closely at the background. What there house like?
I don't mean I want do robe who lives in a mansion but any sign of sloppiness or downtrodden rooms was a turn off.

Completely agree that an OLD profile is there to sell yourself, it's your shop window, yet is never ceases to amaze me how little effort men make (I have no idea about women's profiles so can't comment). Do they honestly think one or 2 crap photos, an empty profile, and a "hi" is all they need to do?!

I recently went on POF for a browse and it was dire...

• photos that look like mug shots (scowling, no smile) with "I'm a fun sort of bloke". Don't tell me what you are, prove it by writing a fun profile.

• group photos. How the hell am I supposed to know which one you are you idiot!

• uninspiring text. No effort to stand out. Lots of vague "I like films" yet listing none. Have none of these men had to write a CV? It's a similar principle.

• Lots of empty profiles with "I'll fill this in later" or "if you want to know anything just ask". If someone can't be bothered to make the effort with their profile, WTF should I be remotely interested in them?! So lazy and uninspiring.

• wearing shades indoors. I asked one man if he was visualy impaired because of this and he didn't get why I was asking. I mentioned why he was wearing shades indoors and he said he'd "just come in from the garden" LOL. Yeah right, and then thought you'd get on your laptop to take a "cool" picture using your webcam eh.

• lots of middle-aged men wanting women up to 20 years younger but never the same age or even a year older. Most of these men don't appear to be offering anything that interesting either. I had one of these types contact me saying how gorgeous I was, and I had a great time telling him, thank you but I'm afraid as I'm the same age as you I'm outside of your range, bye. LOL.

Oh dear, this seems to have dredged up all my annoyances with OLD! To the topic, yes I also found men were really trying to punch above their weight. I'm not a 10/10 but I was often a few points up the scale from the guys who contacted me. I'd never think so highly of myself that I'd do the same.

WhatALoad I can tell you, from the male perspective, that the first four of your points apply equally to female profiles (with occasional but appearances of point five).