Narcissistic sister

[80schild]

Well this is it really. I spent the first 25 years of my life thinking it was me that was the problem and having such huge self esteem issues because my sister was always putting me down - she told me I was lazy and not clever. Her views were endorsed by my parents who find her really funny. I have always said abuse is a big word but I realise it is definitely close. The thing that made me realise it was today - DH came away from Christmas dinner saying she is a narcissist and he definitely wouldn't say it lightly. I just feel that at last someone has seen her in her entirety. I think I just really needed to get this out. She has been such a negative influence in my life.

*aren't ridiculous, not are

A timely thread, as I've yet to contact my narc sister to thank her for her gifts as I'm putting it off. Hate any contact with her, even just a text. Yet if I don't my mother will get it in the neck (despite it being ok for my sis not to thank me (remembers one Xmas day listening to a ten minute listing of every present she'd been bought that year, followed by a ten minute monologue about her upcoming business trip which was supposed to make me jealous, yet didn't manage to fit in a thank you to me for my gift, despite me having got my thanks out of the way immediately.))

Unlike many, I think, there are understandable reasons why my sis is like she is, but that doesn't excuse her behaviour (and who knows, she may have turned out the same anyway?). I've not seen her for 3.5 years which is great going imo. Before that I was averaging once every 18 months. Face to face meetings need lots of preparation. I once walked past her in the street and had a panic attack (we live hundreds of miles apart, so this was unexpected). Luckily, she didn't notice me.

Amusingly, in a way, she thinks we have a wonderful relationship and are as close as sisters could be. It makes sense, though, I mean she is so bloody wonderful of course she's the centre of my world!!!!!

Sympathy and much love to all here!

Not a twin, but I have a suspected narc brother (Br2).

My other brothers are fantastic as they have had their eyes opened to the shit I've had to endure at his hands.

For instance, not so long ago, he said that mum has issues with me that I have WRONGLY handled over the years. Mum has fired me some real evil/filthy looks over the years, to which I have asked her if I've done anything wrong or to upset/offend her. She has told me that "No, everything's OK" or "Everything's Fine" and I have given her more chances and opportunities to discuss any issues she has with me, like a rational, mature adult. She never took those opportunities to talk to me about any problem she may have with me.

TBH, I don't know if this is just my brother shit-stirring, but there are many times Br2 and mum have invited the rest of the family for dinner (all at the same time), yet they have left DH, our DC and myself out deliberately. Christmas is a funny one because my mum likes to make out she's a doting GM, but, so doting that she doesn't even know DS and DD's ages. She bought 7-8yo and 8-9yo clothes for DS and DD who are almost 11 and 12yo. She makes no effort at all and think that giving the DC a couple of pounds constitutes a loving relationship.

Everything with Br2 and mum is about money and image. It's funny, because Br2 recently gave me a lecture on how to be a moral person. A bit cheap coming from someone who was more than willing to cheat on his wife after less than 2yrs of marriage, bragged about over Sunday Dinner, which was then confirmed by our friend who he was willing to cheat with (she was the more moral person in that situation and told him it wasn't going to happen as he was married).

There is so much more to say about my family members, but it would take a year and a day to tell you everything.......as I'm sure the same goes for the rest of you on here.

On another note, does anyone actually just step back and watch the narcs in their family very slowly expose and subsequently destroy themselves without even noticing. By that I mean, do any of you watch the narcs make up some excuse for not speaking to someone because that person simply may have disagreed with them, but have made up some made-up, false,bullshit story about the person? When you stand back and see these people for who they really are and the good job they have done on many people (who think the sun shines out of the narcs arse), it's like waiting for that car crash to happen IYSWIM.

Interesting with the twins thing... my mother is a twin and chose to live away from the family. She would never explain why but there were a few hints. My aunt has done everything she can to get me out of the way so that she can have her twin to herself, only to bully her. Vile woman.

Toptoe I tried all that - only to be accused of 'causing trouble' 'causing a bad atmosphere'

Not worth the hassle! I'm far better off having nothing to do with her at all.

Scruffbags - interestingly I'm friends on Facebook with people my sister knows who were once good friends of hers, friendly with me too. (Very small town).

Several times this year they've posted stuff of the 'when people show you who they are believe them' and 'isn't it funny when everyone else thinks someone is wonderful and you know the truth' type.

She has a habit of becoming very friendly with people who are 'useful' to her in some way, then once their 'usefulness' has passed (or they realise and stop being used) she turns on them. Tells everyone they've done something heinous (not even just in terms of friendship but makes out they're bad mothers, or benefit cheats, or unfaithful to their partner etc) and THATS why SHE dropped THEM. It's disgusting and surprisingly she doesn't have a lot of friends

I prefer to see the scapegoat thing as being the family's colostomy bag.

They can't deal with their own shit.

I put boundaries in place "taking a break from the relationship" in March of 2008 for my narc sister when she did not take my surprise pregnancy (at 46) at all well. I declined her intentions to "help". I stopped seeing her then, but tapered other forms of contact gradually over about four years. (I returned a gift -dvd copies of old home movies as I do not do well with the past, and she was so insulted she declared to other sister that she'd never speak to me again= Result!) She did not ask to see my baby (our third) and time marched on. Last Christmas, our visits to our other sister overlapped with my permission at the narc's request. For 20 minutes. She got to see my youngest without actually having asked, which vexed me a bit at the time- as I was waiting for her to say it...instead of her expecting me to read her mind (as I was expected to operate off of her brain) and finish her thought for her at her leading comments that baby must be getting big. 20 awkward minutes and my child was completely indifferent to her- bless her!

I had expected to need a detox period and did do a wee bit of analysis/venting with other sister who is my enlightened witness, (but did not suffer the same psychological damage as I did). But after that, I was fine and could look at the encounter with a "so what" kind of indifference.

I spoke to her on the phone this Christmas (two days before) as she was at other sister's house (visits nor overlapping this year). Superficial along the lines of: "I' m fine; you're fine; that's us caught up then". Another "so what" experience.

However, her long time neighbor, a nice, older lady who lived alone and knowingly put up with sister for help/support when needed recently passed away. So sister is down an additional person. She used to have a whole stable of people, dinner club, Saturday night out ladies, etc, but I think they have eroded away. I know of one "friend" who dominates sister that has been in her life 25 years and I think sister "knows her place" with that friend (suspect lesbian relationship- not that there is anything wrong with that- except this friend is already married).

It has dawned on me that the older lady had written to me regarding sister's difficult personality and wanted to meet with me to talk about her. I finally (my dh and I thought narc sister was behind the letter) responded with a letter and declined as I was in early days of recovery from her (and I wasn't comfortable talking behind her back- no matter how much she obviously talked about me!). I also sent her a book from Amazon about Narcissists! (I never received a thank you or acknowledgment for the book.) I am wondering if the lady kept my letter, and sister will find it and she will kick off (again). I polish my "so what" armour...

Sorry for my essay! 80schild, your dh may have flipped a switch for you. Imho, people get to a certain point, or age, where they just will not put up with the crap anymore. None of the parameters matter anymore, family, history, health circumstances, duty- all become used up ashes and simply are not renewable resources anymore. It is a dawning of a new age and so liberating. Cascading fallout (if any) from other family/ relations won't matter enough to stop you. The worm has turned.

When I mentioned about the narcs slowly destroying their 'fuel sources', I also include the wonderful way in which the narcs think that you won't say anything when they brazenly divulge information on their cheating. I always say that it's not the scapegoat causing the trouble at all, the scapegoat is just exposing he trouble that was already caused. So if the narc didn't engage in destructive, shameful or embarrassing behaviour in the first place, there would be nothing to expose and nothing for them to worry about.

Yay. Narc sisters club. Mines horrendous and this is the NC I use to discuss her.

There is something deeply wrong with her. It will never be right.

Her now boyfriend lives abroad and doesn't want to live in the UK I am WILLING her to emigrate with every fibre of my being - fuck me I'll enjoy that wedding, but she's never had a relationship survive above two years.

Yeah, mine has never had a boyfriend-now 56. Except the one chap at uni that was willing to marry her (so she said, but I dont know if there was a formal proposal or not). But he wasn't good enough or ambitious enough not a Disney Prince for her. Thus we suspect she is batting for the same side, but she denies it (perhaps protesting a bit too much) because we think that she thinks that that would be some kind of flaw...or...it might require other people to "accept" her when she is so intolerant of accepting other people just the way they are.

Going on what Band said about the intolerance of others, that is the exactly what it is with my mum. She has never really been able to accept me for the independent person I am. I used to say that if mum had her way and I was intent on painting the house, she'd have me up the ladder in a ball gown in case someone came to the door.

To mum (and the vast majority of narcs I have come across), it's about image. Any flaw in that image can send them into a rage and they will do almost anything to cover any discrepancies up, so that they look wonderful on the outside.

More often than not, they're insecure, mentally and emotionally fragile and one of the things they fear most is exposure of their real self. This is mainly because they are such characteristically flawed people. Their sense of entitlement can be unreal, but that is mainly due to them being so insecure and unaccepting about their own character. They make demands to get what they want in order to feel good about themselves, but unfortunately that doesn't do anything to address and sort out the character flaws and other issues, that many others have little problems with admitting to. Like sticking a plaster over a gaping wound.

When they tarnish their own image with their own actions (example being Br2's intent on infidelity), they twist things round to make the scapegoat/other people out to blame.

Decent people are usually a target for narcs abuse. There are many reason for this. One of them may be because the decent person reminds the narc of the person the narc can never really be in any reasonable capacity and that may infuriate the narc. An exception to that rule is a man called Sam Vaknin. He is a narc who has worked hard to become a decent person. Like any person, he has had his moments, be he usually apologises for any hurt caused. Richard Grannon is a psychologist who, I think, specialises in personality disorders. Both have many videos on YouTube, as does Luminousz Ztar, who has been through what many scapegoats have been through, so is someone who can relate to that.

I wish San Vaknin would set up a 12-step group for Narcs.

I'm another one in the Survivors of Narc Sisters club. Just posted a thread about her latest episode of nastiness.

She has the power to reduce me to a jibbering wreck arguing about the pettiest things, then telling me I'm going mad. She's always 1000 times worse when she's pissed (which is every evening) and has an audience to show me up in front of.

Having spent the day with her watching her take selfies and spend our entire lunch glued to her phone, I got home to see her gurning fucking selfies all over Facebook and I've now hidden her posts. Aaaah that feels good!

80schild back to your particular case - I was so glad to read that your DH sees through her. It's SUCH a relief when you find a sane person in your life who can see through the shit that you spent your whole life believing in. My poor DH has to listen to me rant about my Narc family, and he just says the same thing over and over again - stay away from them. He's right.

It is sanity saving when someone else sees through them, isn't it? Like you're not living in some fucked up twilight zone where cruelty is admirable and there are real people who don't treat everyone like shit on a shoe.

It's made me appreciate moving out of my hometown. Which, consequently, my sister said she'd never move to because there's too many people like me here.

And, yes, the fucking selfies. Wherever they go or whatever they do, it's only themselves they want to acknowledge. If that doesn't say it all, I dunno what does.

at gurning fucking selfies! cats wheres your thread?

DM herself was a scapegoat so she only knew how to create concrete roles for everyone, which taught me and my dsis' to do the same. None of us are to blame and none of us want to be this way.

I think this is pivotal in a lot of families. My mum was a scapegoat, the oldest so should know better. Thats how she was brought up so thats how we were brought up, with corporal punishment and anger and favouritism. She didnt know any better. Her younger sister, my aunt, is a total narc and my twin is like her in so many ways. It seems theres a narc in every generation, partly created and partly born that way.
Mum has tried reconciling with narc sister, but her crazy hatred runs deep. Its like history repeating itself sadly.
My twin deliberately did not invite any of us to her wedding but did invite the narc aunt in a cruel 'fuck you' to us all.

I always thought there was something wrong with me, I wasnt good enough to be her sister. Surprised that there are so many of us out there, surviving narc siblings

It is sanity saving when someone else sees through them, isn't it?

Yes. My Mum sees it and pretends she doesn't, or chooses to forget.

She dissembles so much, I don't think she's "real" with anyone to be honest

I had that moment when I knew her ex husband could see who I saw.

She and I also exchanged a look once, between ourselves and it basically said, from her to me 'I know you see through me and know who I really am' it was oddly liberating

Blimey, this thread is so poignant for me just now. 80schild really sorry you're in this situation but pleased for you that your partner has seen it for what it is which gives you validation and removes the "is it me?" question/self doubt.

My mother IS a narc. and after 10 months of counselling this year I've gone no-contact with her and she has upped her game to try and provoke me, now even dragged my adult son into it who is torn between us both. I have to let him do what he is capable of doing just now but always keep my door open for him.

Toxic families are shit and they affect your whole life for the rest of your life because even when you go no contact you are always aware you are no contact. I often ask myself why I couldn't have been born into an average family where my family relationships are healthier and my children have decent role models.

I'm looking forward to NC this coming year just so I can get some bloody peace and not have every week tainted with somebody else's drama that I get dragged into whilst being made to feel shit at the same time.

Another lone twin here, it's easier to have no/low contact than put up with the shit isn't it? Our situation not helped by her awful husband who I think encourages her distorted view of things due to his own weird family dynamics. I feel sad that one day she may realise what she has done, or even sadder think she has been right all along.

There certainly are a lot of us! Best thing I ever did was going solo. I don't have to worry about the nastiness and the digs and the petty insecurities. Low contact all the way here and so much happier and simple is my life.

Maybe we should start a club?!

Aye, the Normal Sisters Club?

Toxic families are shit, is anyone else trying their hardest to ensure their own DC arent brought up like this? I try so very hard to learn from my mum's mistakes and give DS the best childhood I can. I still suck at it sometimes (proving my twin right as shes the perfect mum).

My mum was a scapegoat, the oldest so should know better.

I don't get this, what do you mean ESM?

My twin's husband also fucked things up between us. After a dodgy start (understatement!) I was beginning to think we were going to pull through to a more adult relationship. Then along he came, one poisonous dude. Some people are so dark.

I wonder if it's a LD? I mean how come people are born with it. Narcdom that is.

sorry daffs I didnt explain that very well! My mum was the oldest so everything was her fault, she should know better. Her sisters actions were blamed on her. She tried not to replicate that with us, but did to a degree.

So grandma was a narc too. Fuckin hell, we didnt have much of a chance.

My twins husband is a bit of a twat too. They are total social climbers, obsessed with always having/being/looking the best. Never used to be until she met him. Everything is wow and 'amazing hun' and 'cocktails with the hubby' but underneath she doesnt love him.

Whats a LD? I thought Narcdom was learned behaviour coupled with anxiety/personality disorder. Mixed with sheer selfcentredness.

It's hard not to draw the connection between mothers and the narc sister.

Tbh, it worries me about my relationship with my own DD. I'm particularly down today, but after these few days I'm worried she's going to hate me too because I don't know what a normal mother-daughter relationship is.

I'm also worried about having another daughter one day in case there's a fucked up dynamic between DD and another.

My mother called today. Can you tell?