So kids it turns out Nana is a narcissist.

[OopsDearyMe]

I have three children DD1 is 10 ,DD2 is 8 and DS is 6. Both my parents have been actively involved in their lives up to now. I went NC is sept when I realised the route of my mum behaviour was that she was a narcissist. I explained to them that she did something not nice to me and just like I tell them to stay away from people who are mean to you, I am doing the same. Sadly my sister appears to also be a narcissist and so I have gone NC with her too.
The children have a had a week with my parents at half term without me and are going to spend a week with them from boxing day onwards. From then on I have decided to go full NC and not agree to the children having contact with them either.
But how do explain to them at the ages they are so they understand. They have no relationship with their father or his side. So it will just be me and the kids.

Help?
My 10 and 8 year olds are very switched on and won't take any crap.

And now you want to stop them from seeing their grandparents. It sounds as though you are gradually eroding their support network, which will leave only you.

Not all GPS are benign fluffy people capable of providing good quality support sunday.

We have no way of knowing whether OP's relatives are as she perceives them to be but it's quite possible; It happens.

Casting aspersions on her motivation and actions with no evidence isn't very helpful.

Sunday, my sister sees my DC on their birthdays and boxing day each year as she is too busy to see them at other times. She took some gossip she heard and did not bother to check her facts, then made a decision to call social services, not because she was concerned for their welfare.

Oh and my mother moved 100 miles away, telling everyone that it was to get away from me and the kids!

I was concerned people wld view it the way you did.

Agreed, sorry if I was out of line.
But to me the op's posts read like someone who enjoys the drama of declaring NC and the fallout. This doesn't seem very fair on the DCs. I am assuming things with the GPs can't be that bad if OP is happy to give them a week of unsupervised contact.

I wasn't going to officially tell my mum, but just say no to any other suggestions to visits.
Its around the school holidays and of course birthdays that will be difficult. I don't want the kids to feel they did anything to stop their family seeing them or feel abandoned.

I don't think it's fair on your children to send them off for a week with family and then for them never to see them again. How confusing is that?

Hey oops. If they are narcs then nc is the right way to go.

They are hollow shells of humans unable to show empathy or feel consequence or regret.

My dd's father is a narc and she has had no contact since she was two. She is now 7. When she is older I will tell her what her father is. For now I tell her (on the rare occasion she asks) that some people are not good at being kind to others and mummy prefers not to have those kind of people in our lives.

Good luck, I hope you find the peace you deserve and hope you can find other real life support and friendship.

I am a single parent too, it's tough but just take heart in the knowledge you are doing the best for them by making the strong decisions. Xxx

Are you quite sure in your assessment? The US prevalence of NPD is around 5% in females, yet on MN every third thread has new Narc's getting diagnosed, it seems.

But to me the op's posts read like someone who enjoys the drama of declaring NC and the fallout

Really?!

Are you quite a dramatic person generally sunday? I expect you read non existent meanings into things a lot do you? That must be hard for you.

Sunday night... Like I said there are the odd comment here or there,but generally the behaviours go over the kids heads. But it won't always be like that.
Right now she hurts me, so I am NC
She does little to nothing to them. But I was rightly asked what question its sending them.
Its a complex decision. Which is why I am asking?

Do you always assume someone is bad first?

I wasn't going to officially tell my mum, but just say no to any other suggestions to visits.

That's probably the sensible, low-key way to do it and will help keep dramatics minimal. Good call.

Its around the school holidays and of course birthdays that will be difficult

You need to screw up your resolve. It's not easy

Well jeau if they are genuinely unkind people, hollow shells of humans, incapable of showing empathy or regret, then op shouldn't let three young children spend an hour unsupervised with them let alone allow them to spend a week with them 100 miles away from home.

:)
Nope. I'm very level headed.

It's a huge leap from being happy for your DCs to spend a week with someone and then declare they can't see them again.

Seems very odd to me. If not to you, fine.

I did not say she had NPD. Its possible to be a narcissistic person and not have the disorder.
It was a trauma counsellor who suggested I look into narcissism and see if it corresponded with my experience. It does very much.Sadly. I do not Harte her,how can I ? If she cannot see her mistakes then how can she rectify them. I feel sorry for her.

TBF, lougle a narcissist (or sufferer of another untreated PD) is MUCH more likely to warrant a thread than the average person.

You know what's a huge leap sunday? Accusing a mother who is obviously struggling with a very challenging situation of wilfully alienating her DC from their 'support network'.

That's quite vicious actually.

I would suggest thinking very carefully before cutting yourself and your DC off from all your family completely, especially if the half term visit went OK and your DC are happy visiting GPs.

OP you have my sympathy. Two of my closest friends had/have mothers like this. So hard to go NC if you have a normal amount of empathy and yet the mothers continue to inflict pain, to see things only from their viewpoint and to ascribe to their daughters negative motives.
I think you need to just cease the visits and if your DM asks for contact suggest she travels 100 miles to see her GC -- she is unlikely to agree to this and will probably object and cause a rift herself.
If your DC ask about seeing her then have that conversation you suggested. Ask them if they remember things she's said to them etc that they felt uncomfortable about.
During the proposed visit make sure they have credit on a phone to call you with any concerns.
Good luck

Thank you Manumission.

Its all new information and its tricky. If she had simply been appaulling all the time with me and the DC then it would be easier. If the children's father was more active in their lives or his family gave a shit about them I would not worry so much.
But they have been given a pathetic bunch for family and I am doing my god damn best to try and protect them from all that shit as best I can.
The judges think its in their best interest s that they see their Dad , despite how much he let's them down over and over and over.
MNers if I told them how he behaved would possibly agree that they are better off without him. Who's right?

Is it better they have some time with their grandparents? Have some kind of family life away from just me? Or because my mum hurts me should that mean they should have no more to do with her?

Its not simple at all..

Its effing hard, especially when you make ALL the decisions ALONE.

The thing is, eventually, when the DC are larger and less cute (and probably sooner than that even) she'll drag them into it too. The comments and inappropriate remarks will start and they need to be buffered from it. Especially once it dawns on her that you are NC. They'll become the conduit.

Maybe if you could give an example or two to us of her narc behaviour, it would help everyone understand the issue?

The only thing I have seen with the children, which currently does not bother them is to do with body image.

So growing up she hated cooking, so served so much quick ,processed crap. Few veggies and never had fruit in the house. She also got into a strop if we didn't eat all our food, she would complain that it meant we didn't like her cooking and that she wouldn't bother any more. Big tantrum and guilt trip.
This led obviously to terrible eating habits and when puberty hit I got fatter, (partly I know now to do with PCOS) I had a hard time losing it. So a cycle was created. I would be guilted into eating the crap she made, then when I complained about my weight she would tell me simply " well you know what to do about it" she also made a big fuss about her own wait to get compliments and tried all these crazy diets. Until she just began living on cappuccino and a bread roll.

Anyway. This still goes on today, she makes constant comments about how pretty I could be ... If only I lost weight! Then orders fish and chips because she can't be bothered to cook. Etc etc My sister had a similar weight problem , but at line stage took up running she lost all the weight and was a really healthy weight. Still my mother told her if she lost a bit more weight she would be pretty. And when my sister got married all she ever commented on was how it was such a shame my sister looked so fat in her pictures and how she couldn't understand why she didn't try harder to lose weigh for the wedding. My sister was in a deep depression around this time.
She also commented to my fiance that she was embarrassed that I would be a fat bride and how bad that would look on her.

So... When DD1 is her golden child and she can do no wrong. She is also very slim as she does not east well. Which to me is a worry. Every time we see her, she will comment on how she would like to have DD1s figure. In front of DD2. When DD2 was 1 year old she commented that it was a shame that DD2 did not have DD1s body shape and was probably going to be fat like me when she grew up!!!! She was one!! and weighed less that DD1 at that point. She happens to have a more curvy shape, whereas DD1 is a boyish shape.

This however is really the only thing I have seen, apart from some obvious favourism.

As I said, it is Christmas, the children are expecting to see her and my father. My sister won't be around. So really its just a way of I guess saying goodbye without really saying it. One last Christmas.

But nothing more. New Year new way of life.

And what about with you? What are the issues that have led to the NC situation?

So she wasn't a good cook and has a hang up about weight?

You say your DDs are mature and clued up - how about speaking to them honestly about the things your DM said to re weight/body/ anything really that was a constant put down, let them know the reasons why you are NC. I'd allow them to decide if they want to continue their relationship with their GP. It could mean less aggro for you if they feel you are taking their GP away from them unnecessarily (from their point of view)

Sorry OP I mean she does sound bloody awful but doesn't sound like a full on narc. That said if she is it sounds like dd1 could turn into her supply which you really really don't want.

They are just awful beings.

Even if she isn't I wouldn't be exposing my kids to that "programming"

If she was a narc I wouldn't let my kids anywhere near her.

So, my conclusion is you are doing the right thing.

manumission do you need a torch?