Horrible argument with DH - don't know what to do

[whenwillchristmascome]

Name changed because of other identifying posts. DH and I had a bad argument today over nothing and it is totally unresolved - in fact, it is still ongoing in a silent, angry way.

The argument was over something stupid - whether he had recycled a couple of sheets of paper that DS (7) needed for homework, which he was adamant that he hadn't. I was really convinced that he had (saw them this morning; DH had tidied whilst I was out) and I guess kept accusing him, and it spiralled from there.

We have a history of this sort of arguing. We generally get on really well - he's incredibly supportive and a great partner, and we never argue over anything meaningful - we see eye-to-eye on most issues. But we have bad habits of letting tiny, stupid things spiral into big arguments. From my point of view, he is very sensitive when he feels that I'm getting at him, and this leads to him getting really angry and aggressive - never at all physical but shouting and sometimes verbally abusing me. He doesn't usually do this right in front of the children but often when they are in the house. When he gets like this, I usually just try to make him be quiet as I feel this is really damaging for the children to hear - which usually makes him more angry.

His point of view is that I am passive aggressive and commit lots of micro aggressions that all add up - that is the two of us causing these situations and that I am to blame as much as he is - and also that he will apologise for his role whereas I am less likely to. I don't know how I feel about this. I think there is some truth to it but sometimes I feel that even raising complaints or commenting on things I think he hasn't done right count as passive aggression to him. I think it's legitimate of me to be a bit annoyed at what seemed to me a clear case of him throwing out something DS really needed. The last straw this time was me saying, after he had said several times that he had not put it in the recycling, that I was pretty sure it wasn't in the house (after searching) - he feels this was really passive aggressive because it was accusing him of getting rid of it without actually saying it.

The low-point of the argument was him shouting at me to 'get upstairs' with such anger in his face (because DS was in the house and I was trying to keep him quiet - but the noise still carries) and then really screaming at me when I asked him again not to shout. He then stormed out to check the recycling and, in fact, found the papers in there. I thought he would apologise when he came back with them but he was still just as angry, saying that I was wrong for saying it was him when it could have been me that put the papers in the recycling (I really don't think this is likely because I was very aware that we needed them this weekend).

We've been avoiding each other since - I feel really shaken and unsure what to do. But I've just been in, feeling like we should talk. He took one look at my face and got up and walked out of the room. When I asked what he was doing, he said that I wasn't prepared to talk about it as I clearly hadn't come to apologise, and he was sick of me putting all the blame on him when it stems from my passive aggression. He is still furious, and said that he won't say anything to me unless I have 'something new' to say. I took a deep breath and said that I felt his behaviour today was abusive and that I feel like I'd been emotionally abused. I have said this before about his behaviour but it is hardly something that I say lightly or often. He just said sarcastically 'no, something new!' and stormed out of the room.

I feel so confused and uncertain. I feel that he is right in that my behaviour is part of the problem. He is hardly ever critical of me - never complains if I've not done jobs I was supposed to be doing, etc., whereas I am more critical and nagging, which does really annoy him and I am trying to do that less. But I feel his behaviour was in a different category. Our life is really great apart from these arguments (which are maybe 1-2 per month) - I don't want to throw everything away because of this but I feel really horrible about what is going on.

Sorry this is long - but other opinions on this would be so helpful.

He is being a bit of a tit but if life is otherwise quite rosy why not just let the dust lie for 24 hours and see how you both feel tomorrow? Personally I wouldn't be reacting to this, he's behaving like an angry teenager. Don't ask him if he's okay or try and talk about it tonight just give yourselves some space, let him stew for a bit and start again in the morning . Tensions run high this time of year.

Unless you feel you are often walking on eggshells and changing your behaviours to avoid these outbursts and in that case I'd say you have bigger problems.

It sounds like you went a bit OTT about the paper for DSs homework.

When I read your account of what happened I was saying "just him a break", because it seemed like you went on about it a bit too much.

Sorry if that sounds harsh, but take what I say in the spirit I mean it. IOW, pick your battles, decide whether something really is important enough for you to start a row.

If you feel frustrated, maybe go into another room to take time-out, decide if it's worth it or not. Sometimes you'll realise it's not that important, other times it may be

I can see how this spirals, his reaction wasn't proportionate to the 'crime' he had been accused of, and now he is probably quite stuck in his belief that you caused or deserved it. I think the only way you can go forward is to talk when both are calm about listening better to each other and avoiding all these trigger points.
This can happen at my house when something is lost, it's easy to fixate on who lost it rather than how to find it. If you can agree to both listen to each other and not hear what you want to hear and maybe a better plan of how to deal with things when they arise?
For instance you could just say something once 'x is lost, lets have a look you look upstairs I will look downstairs' and then leave the room. Ok we didn't find it let's look again in an hour. Everyone looking together with no structure in a panic usually causes these things in my house, I end up nagging like a broken record when I should just say it once then leave it. Then I am hurt when DC erupt. He needs to apologise for his anger towards you and I hope when he is calm he can

But like someone said if this is a regular dynamic I think you need to take more action together to address it

I remember rows with my parents at home and nothing was more likely to ignite the rage in someone than a hissed shut up someone will hear you kind of fire starter... this is when you need to walk away. Someone can only argue if they have a participant to argue with!

My DD1 tends to become fixed on how something happened rather than finding a solution to it I think I should add. I find she can end up being super irritating and patronising about it, it's not helpful.
BUT as you say, it seems like he accuses you of this to avoid having to discuss something he doesn't like? Not good

I do think maybe we need to have councilling to manage these situations better. I feel absolutely horrible at the moment and like I can't carry on in the relationship like this, but I know from experience that it will probably be different tomorrow and it won't seem like such a big thing.

I do agree that the whispered arguments that the children aren't supposed to hear are probably the worst of all. I'm really bad at walking away and always want to put my point of view across - this is definitely something I need to work on.

Does anyone have advice about changing patterns of behaviour like this - both as a couple and as an individual?

I don't think you should be blaming yourself I think you probably are trying to be the voice of reason when he is being irrational but you have already reached the crisis point and once he feels deeply wronged nothing you say will probably make much difference. For the time being I think it's about putting out the fire by taking away the oxygen - stop participating once you can see it's going this way - the more you try to 'fix' it the more it escalates.

You could look at relate to work out communicating better with one another? Even if you go alone, it can help you deal with your communication and changing patterns even if he refuses.

Usually what happened in my childhood home was also the more someone was hissed at to be quiet the louder they got in a bid to silence the hissing person. So it's still kind of abusive/manipulation because it's all designed to shut the other person up

I'm sorry to hear this OP. Your DH's behaviour was that of an angry bully who's unable to control his temper and was, IMO abusive . You say this happens infrequently but once or twice a month is fairly frequent. Let the dust settle on this then have a chat. But I would worry his behaviour is ingrained and frankly your anxiety about this speaks volumes. Look after yourself and good luck OP

I may be way off as I am very happily single but these kinds of rows 1-2 times a month seems like a lot to stand to me.

your anxiety about this speaks volumes

I agree with this too.

I think the behaviour is quite engrained - we've been together more than 20 years and it's always been a bit like this. But since we had kids (9 years ago) it is much more frequent - I guess because our lives are much more stressful (worrying about homework, etc!) and we have much less time to focus on us a couple.

What I'm not really clear about is what to do if I feel this really is a big problem - not enough of a problem to split over, but not something I can live with. Where does that leave us?

The other important factor is how does he deal with child conflict. Does he shout them down?

It's a tough one OP. I didn't see the abusive side to my ex-DP until my DS was born and all the stress, lack of sleep , intimacy and money just brought out the worst in both of us tbh. But it was when I realised he was a cheat and abusive that made my mind up and I left. I'm not saying your situation is the same, but it's upset you enough to come on here and tell us about it. Maybe consider counselling if your DH is open to it, but this isn't something you should continue to put up with. Think about the horrible impact this may have on your DC.

Does anyone have advice about changing patterns of behaviour like this - both as a couple and as an individual?

Sounds like a critical / defensive cycle.

My DH and I have been there. I feel I can't say anything negative because he becomes defensive at the first hint or critism. He feels like he can do nothing right because even when he does his best (and he is a wonderful man my dh) her feels I am hyper critical at even a minor insignificant error.

We had similar issues with regards to apologising that you mention. DH feels he's always apologising and I'm not, which was true because I was critical and he wasnt.

So to solve it we both acknowledged this without blaming. I needed to accept that me being critical and generally unkind wasn't good for my DHs self esteem, he's a good guy my husband is. Always puts me and DC before himself. So I could come at issues from a non-critical angle.

(For example your ds's homework. The better way to have approached it would have been "we need to find ds' s homework, can we work together and look? You check the kitchen and bins, I'll check upstairs" instead you were critical and he was defensive)

Then DH needed to manage his defensiveness I agreed to approach problems from a problem-solving pov, not blamibg. He agreed then when I was critical of him we would talk rather than him being defensive.

You need to accept that neither of you are acting well. volume is just one factor in unpleasant behaviour but just because you don't shout doesn't mean your anger doesn't show. I am naturally loud so when I get upset I get louder, OH is naturally much quieter so his anger comes across in a change tone and timbre but not volume. You are both being hostile. I think you are in a negative spiral of feeding of each other you push and push and he reacts. You are both to blame and both need to take responsibility and be willing to change.

I can completely relate to this, especially the unwarranted aggression yet being blamed for being passive aggressive and "causing" the anger. Which also does not sit well with me, he is responsible for ourselves and his own reactions. We also get in these spiraling arguments which make me think "I can't live with this" but it's not enough to split over... Plus I later wonder whether I have over reacted to the seriousness...
So no useful advice but holding out to hear some, it's really difficult in an otherwise good relationship :(

Bum - he's not like this with the children. I have no concerns about his parenting at all (he's definitely tougher than I am but not in a problematic way).

Fate - your situation sounds massively similar to ours. But how did you change it? We are largely aware of the issues and that I need to be less critical and him less aggressive, but we still fall into the same old patterns. I know the problem would have been best approached in the way you say, but it seems to spiral. I say 'they were here this morning, could you have put them in the recycling?' Him: 'no, I didn't' ... much searching ... me: are you sure you didn't / it seems the most likely explanation ... by this state he is already defensive and getting annoyed. But the thing is he had done that and going out to the bins (huge communal ones a way from the flat) was the right thing to do, but I couldn't suggest this without saying I thought he was wrong, which led to tension and argument. I'm not that sure at what point I should have acted differently. Although for sure in many situations it's clearer that I am criticising and need to leave it.

I am the fiery one in mine and dh's relationship and I think I probably feel similar to your dh sometimes. I find it immensely frustrating if dh won't let me express my opinion as in "his" opinion I am raising my voice too much or being overly emotional. I do tend to have a more emotional reaction to things than him but I don't think that is necessarily wrong, I just react differently. Could this be how your dh feels? If you are walking around on eggshells then I am sure he has picked up on it and is maybe reacting to you?
It sounds like you both need to communicate to each other better. Hope it all works out OP.

If you were convinced they'd been put in the bins, didn't you think of going to look for them there yourself? It comes across as you wanting to make him look rather than finding the papers being priority.

My ex and I were similar, OP, but the other way around. I felt him to be quite PA, and I could get shouty - then he would say I was going to wake/frighten DS, which made me feel worse. I'm not good in a row. I need to retreat, calm down and think clearly about what my point is and how I get it across. So I would leave the room, and ex would follow me because he hadn't finished and then I'd end up ranting and consequently feeling disappointed in myself. Neither technique is good - shouting and losing control is obviously far worse, especially if children are around, but passive aggression and having to have the last word is also a poor way of getting one's point across (although I should add that I never argue with anyone like I argued with him).

He needs to learn to control his temper, possibly considering anger management. Someone once told me about the 'sandwich technique', where you say something positive to your partner, then air your grievance, followed by another positive remark, e.g:

Thank you for putting the laundry away, I really appreciate it.

Do you think you could actually piss in the toilet occasionally, rather than everywhere but the toilet? Thanks!

The kids said they had a great time at the park with you, btw.

(Rubbish example, and I never quite managed to do it in real life without it sounding incredibly fake, but you get the idea!)