What would you do? Where is the line here? Is there an acceptable level of flirting when married?

[MotherTeresasCat]

Ok, will try to be brief.

There is a bloke on the periphery of my social circle who I sometimes see when out and about. He is married with children (has been for a long time). I am single.

I first noticed this man gazing at me while I was dancing once (he sings in my favourite local band and I often go with friends to watch them play). Since then he has made his attraction to me pretty obvious - I catch him looking at me all the time, he uses any excuse to touch or hug me, he has this flustered, nervous air around me - it's just kind of there for the world to see. And that's the problem. He either can't (or isn't trying hard enough to) hide his feelings and my concern is people will notice, jump to the wrong conclusion, and think badly. I don't think this concern is unreasonable as a friend of mine noticed immediately and commented, 'Oh gosh, he really likes you doesn't he?'. I snapped at her that he was married, to which she responded that his behaviour didn't mean anything and that he was just being nice.

So my friend thinks he's just being 'nice' and no big deal. But I am uncomfortable. I know where my line is. If he was single I might be interested in pursuing things (I think he's attractive too - I'm not going to feel guilty about that, I'm only human - I can control my actions and keep a lid on my feelings) but he isn't. So for me it's an absolute no-no. And I know that if I was married and my husband behaved with another woman the way he does with me I would be very hurt and upset. So for me it is a big deal. I don't want my reputation to be damaged by people getting the wrong idea and assuming something is going on.

How to handle? I could avoid him completely but that puts the kibosh on a big and enjoyable part of my social life which feels unfair (I'm a single parent and can't get out loads). I have briefly considered saying something to him (along the lines of stop it) but don't actually think that's a very good idea as it opens up a conversation about feelings which I feel crosses a line. There's a party coming up soon which I would like to attend. But I know he's going to be there so am feeling quite ambivalent.

It's hard to know what to do for the best. I feel conflicted. Perhaps my friend is right and it's no biggie? I can be quite serious and intense sometimes. But my gut says this isn't right.

My friends husband is like this, he's the singer in a band too and flirts ans is tactile with whoever is receptive to it in the crowd and online,hes a natural showman, being popular and keeping his following strong means being flirty and friendly, he'd flirt with the landlord's dog if he thought it would mean more people at his gigs. I wouldn't worry too much. Its his job to make you feel special. If you dont like it tell him.

DHs friend was a singer in a band, in the 80s. He was and remains a very touchy-feely, flirty man, no longer quite the sex bomb he was back then.

Now, 30 years on, he is still a flirtatious man, still chats me up whenever we meet (once or twice a year these days), still DHs oldest mate, happily married for about the same length of time we have been and everyone is happy.

But, as someone back a page said, I am very sure of where my boundaries lie and DH and I have always been really secure in our relationship.

Maybe a step back from the touchy stuff and look away whenever he makes eye contact.

You are way overthinking this.

He sound like a massive creep and AF is right, you could shut him down if you wanted to

When I get unwanted attention I immediately make it clear I'm not interested, so there is absolutely no doubt or ambiguity. It doesn't have to be done in a rude way, it's easy to act indifferent, even the most obtuse man will take the hint if you make it clear you're not up for flirting. And surely flirting is a two way street anyway, you can't be flirted with if you're not up for it.

Well yes I can see that if I took Anyfuckers advice then it would all be shut down very quickly. However I would find that extremely difficult to put into practice, especially in front of others. I think other friends would perceive me as unnecessarily hostile and wonder why I would wish to humiliate him publicly in such a way. It's good advice for a woman who has no assertiveness issues whatsoever and friends who would support her stance.

I would still like to remain on good terms with this group of friends and with him too if possible. I'm thinking diplomacy. Yes I could shout, "Fuck off you creep!" but that would be my bridges burned and I value my social life.

Your choice

The thing is, I wouldn't mind this level of flirting from a male friend I'd known a long time, if it were in public and part of being a group of friends.

You seemed to dislike the situation and had contemplated saying something to him, or even avoiding him completely. You said you found his hugs inappropriate. Either it's all fine or it isn't, really, I don't see how a middle way can exist if you do mind, and if you don't, there's no issue.

No-one has suggested you should 'fuck off you creep', more just don't give him interested vibes! You don't have to have him on FB, you don't have to have chats and hugs, it really is up to you! If you do want to have those things, I don't think you have anything to feel bad about, it all sounds like normal if tactile flirting from a Big Personality.

My own theory is you are uncomfortable with how much you like him and that others might notice that in you, as much as they notice him liking you and you aren't sure how to act around him.

I can't think what 'diplomacy' would look like other than don't hold his gaze and get out of one to one chats!

FourEyes yes that's true - I am uncomfortable with the fact that I find him attractive. It makes me feel guilty and wrong (yes I know I said in my op that I wasn't going to feel guilty about that but I can't help it to an extent) and I do worry that others might pick up on it. That doesn't mean I welcome his touching though. I don't want to have any kind of illicit relationship with him. I don't want to flirt either. Some people enjoy it and find it harmless but I prefer very clear dividing lines between who is just a friend and who is not. Just because I fancy him too doesn't mean I'm up for it. I know what's right and what's wrong.

I think the best thing to do is try to ensure - like you say - that I give him no encouragement whatsoever, although I didn't think I was anyway tbh. Just be polite but maintain a healthy distance. I can subtly cut conversations short too - that's doable without causing a scene.

I think you should try and ignore it. Hell soon get bored if you don't give him any encouragement. Maybe also bring up his wife in conversations to him, maybe saying that it'd be lovely to meet her.

That's a good idea Cricrichan

I'd be more direct, but as you won't...

How about telling him "I'm not that comfortable with hugs, I like my personal space"

Enlist a friend to jump in whenever you are talking.

Ask about his wife.

Keep excusing yourself after a quick hello to chat to someone else.

Most of all, stop worrying what he makes of it: he is making you uncomfortable and you are trying to make that ok for him whilst stopping it.

Just about to say, ask him about his wife, about his kids. Where appropriate in a conversation, make a few remarks about no one liking a cheater. Make it absolutely clear that you think he is totally off limits and have absolutely no intention of going there.

From what I've read he hasn't actually done much to worry about. You ought to easily be able to deal with it without having to shout fuck off! Cut him off your Facebook, he's not a real friend, you don't need him on there. When you see him out just say hello and then move on. You don't have to be rude or call him out on things, just smile, say hello and go and talk to someone else. You won't be causing any issues for anyone else, just say he makes you feel uncomfortable if anyone asks.

Update: I didn't go to the party. But a few days before Xmas wrote some silly post on Facebook about our local town having rediscovered itself as a throbbing metropolis (it was heaving with Xmas shoppers).

He sent me a message asking what time I was in town till? I replied 3. He replied saying damn he was busy until after that but he had a few weeks off so to let him know when I was about so we could link up?

I sent a long message saying that I didn't feel it was appropriate for us to be spending one on one time together, that I wanted to be friends and continue enjoying our shared social circle but that going for coffees with married people wasn't what I wanted to be doing.

His reply: "Ok, no problem, didn't mean anything inappropriate, it's all good, catch up soon."

And I've left it. Because I've said what I needed to and there's nothing else to add. But his response has left me a bit eh? Like, wouldn't you want to address it with something like, yes I respect what you're saying or oh gosh sorry if I've given you the wrong impression but you've got this wrong. Just 'yeah no worries' seems really off/weird

Methinks you're a bit of a drama queen...

Maybe you were reading too much into it and he's just a friendly guy hence no big angst ridden response from him. I would just have kept things light too and replied saying I was busy, lots of family stuff going on etc, no need to go on about meeting being inappropriate and whatnot, you are giving his invitation/suggestion to meet a weight it really doesn't deserve.

Recently I have contacted on a business networking site by a friend from 15/16 years ago (who had always made it clear he would have liked more than friendship). We had exchanged a few chatty emails when he started asking me to meet for a drink then a week later, to go see a band we used to go see years ago. Each time I would say I was busy, mention my DH often etc. Last time he asked I just said "sorry I'm not around, have a great Christmas" which seems to have gotten the message across without a big deal and creating drama about nothing.

I would take his response of" yep no worries" to mean "I get it and I'm not going to make a fuss".

Which is what you wanted, right?

I think you read far more into the situation than what was actually there and that he was just being friendly, your angst ridden response probably made him think 'WTF' and he's backed off.

Methinks you're a bit of a drama queen...

I don't really understand. If it's so insignificant then it would have been ok to go for that coffee? If I had made that choice and posted it on here I would have been slated.

He's a common all garden letch imo. The band thing is part of his 'I'm too cool for letching' letch routine. The unwanted unreciprocated touching and squeezing of shoulders is letchery at it's best. Yukkity yuk - and it's making you turn down social engagements now. It's totally his problem. Feel no guilt telling him what you did. Or even better still doing what AF says.

They always get shitty when pulled up on it. It varies from 'I wasn't doing that. I was just being friendly.' to 'I wouldn't fancy someone like you' to 'You are mad - why have you made this up to ruin my life. You must be obsessed with me'

Just the usual stuff they say so the shit doesn't stick to them when they're power play letchery doesn't work. They get nasty one way or another to cover their tracks.

Don't worry, there will be another victim he's lined up. Be cold and clear, but not threatening if you want an easy life. Sit back and watch him do it to someone else. That person might not be so wise and get all caught up in it, in an abusive situation with a playing letch.

I'm a married man and I meet with female friends on occasion for a drink or even lunch etc, but then again none of them think that I'm trying to get in their knickers and they don't fancy me either. Well if they do they have kept it quiet.

Nothing really wrong with what you said, except he might not fancy you, he could genuinely just be that friendly! I would've just replied "will do" and then not bothered to! Won't you feel really awkward when you see him again?

He fancies you, and wanted to meet up. Big deal. You have surely heard of arsehole married men who do this type of thing?

You blew him out (in a very wordy, angsty, unnecessary way).

Job done. Can't see what the issue is.

Op, what you've said is fine. Its the truth, you can't go wrong with the truth.

Of course some people will say you handled it wrong, everyone's different, he's got the message, job done :)

I think you give out mixed messages to him. If I was in that situation I would not have replied until 3! Why would you do that? Why not ignore?

No need for the long message either. Who knows what his motives were. They could have been innocent. He's got the message now but they way you've handled it you've come over a bit intense and serious. I wouldn't be surprised if rumours go around about you fancying him, spread by him.