Please advise how to counter mild passive aggressiveness.

[Boobina]

So DH has a passive aggressive side which drives me nuts. The positive thing is that he acknowledges it, and it embarrasses him, and he tries to be more aware of it. So I can say "that was spectacularly passive aggressive" and he'll say "....yeah, it was a bit...sorry about that...."

But that's not ideal as a way to deal with it, as it feels a bit confrontational to be always pointing out instances so bluntly. Besides who wants to always be wagging the finger and pointing out someone is wrong? Not me.

It also doesn't work when you're seething and instead you hear yourself biting out a snotty comeback which just turns it into an atmosphere.

I'd much prefer to say something that basically punctures the PA behaviour like a balloon without escalating everything. But I have no idea what is the best tone to take!

I find if I'm angered by it, then I just sound angry and unpleasant to my own ears - and I know being forced into the raging harpy role is a classic trap I really refuse to fall into.

So what tone is the most effective to take?

So if he had said: "look I didn't want to be reminded that I looked fat. I was just showing you the photo as recollection of past happy times. I know you were joking about yourself, but sometimes you can be a bit insensitive" would you have accepted this? I just wonder whether actually his lack of overt anger might also be part of whats keeping you together even though it annoys. My DP can be a bit PA (so can I at times. I'm a sulker) but I've found when I've told him to express himself, I end up challenging what he's said and it leads to an argument anyway. Which reinforces PA behaviour. Not everyone likes confrontation. I see virtues and issues with both approaches

I'm reading with interest. I'm confused by both but, anger as an emotion is healthy as I think is a sign there's something wrong, an injustice.

However, I do feel the way anger is communicated is very complex thing. I'm my relationship there's been reasonable expression of annoyance but the manner has been overly disdainful (learnt from child hood and school) or ultimate and not open to responses of explanation - so far too aggressive.

Saying anger is healthy I feel is a delicate and dangerous thing as it can easily be aggression. Neither being passive nor aggressive is helpful.

Being assertive is what we should aim for.

But, assertive can be hard if you grew up finding it difficult to assert your needs affectively and tended to be passive. Sometimes that's when passive aggression can arise I think Bottled up upset.

Always take it at face value.

I had an ex who did this and I'd assume they were being honest with what they wanted because why wouldn't they be?
When he occasionally followed it up with a grumpy frustrated "I just want some help with this!" I'd always be more than happy to help, and would say "of course, you just need to ask!"

"for example if someone asks her if it's okay to do something, like open the door or something innocuous like that, she'll say 'do what you want' then follow it up under her breath with 'you always do...'"

I'd have replied to her "do what you want" with a cheery "always do!" just to get in there first! :D

Anger is in itself normal.

It may be common but it's hardly desirable.

Ideally, we can talk about things, and be assertive without "anger". Anger in relation to minor issues is definitely not normal.

Yes tiptoe he would class himself as easily made anxious. He can withdraw into a ball of worry. He has attended CBT and he tries to meditate when he can. Hard to do with small kids though. He does work on it, and tries to make lifestyle adjustments to minimise stress etc. He makes a big effort to not bottle things up with me, however I suspect it'll be a lifelong effort for him as swallowing his frustration is his default setting.

I also believe anger is normal, within civilised limits. It's all about how you express it.

I'm still pointing it out as and when. Much as I hate that, isn't it impossible to ignore it every time? Doesn't that just leave elephants in the room???

Anger is a normal human reaction to someone treating you badly. It's abnormal if you can't give it expression without violence, shouting, throwing etc.

Anger is something you feel. Assertiveness is functional expression of anger. But It's fine to say I feel angry that you said X twice and you still haven't followed through.

As the daughter of the queen of passive aggression it is a very difficult emotion to deal with. Growing up I have been in tears with despair about my dm and how to deal with it. As I've grown older I have found that not biting really helps, no begging, pleading or trying to get out of them what they really mean, it will only make it worse. Don't internalise their behaviour.

I also admit that I have indulged in this type of behaviour as I thought this was normal growing up. It's only as an adult that I realise it's not normal or healthy. I still struggle to say what I really mean at times and feel myself slipping into it. The best approach with me is again not rising to it (my dh doesn't) as I then realise that's it's not having the desired effect and I can give myself a quick kick up the arse to act like a grown up again.

I know it's an extremely difficult thing to live with but I would question those posters saying it's emotional abuse. These things are always on a scale and I bet your dh has a regular struggle against this learnt behaviour. I'd just ignore the behaviour, not rise to it and if he has any insight, he will recognise he's being a twat and will eventually realise it's not getting the reaction that he was hoping for.

In itself it doesn't harm you- it only hurts if you care about it. Train yourself not to hear it and it will either stop or it will escalate ie he will be more direct. At the moment it is working for him.
Why don't you try it for a day or two, see how it feels. I think it would work quite quickly.

The whole point of passive aggression is that it forces the recipient of the passive aggressive behaviour to get angry, so the partner expresses the anger that the passive aggressive CAN NOT express. If you don't express anger, you are by definition passive aggressive. Because it's impossible to never feel angry and be human.

But It's fine to say I feel angry that you said X twice and you still haven't followed through.

Or "I don't like that you said X twice and you still..."

There's no reason to feel angry, really.

Even better, asking why they still haven't followed through and what do they suggest.
Feeling angry without knowing why is not really the best response.

But you do know why you're angry. You're angry because your spouse told you twice he was going to do something and he didn't do it. He said he forgot or thought it was Tuesday. It makes you angry because you don't want to go on having these man-child moments with your passive aggressive husband. You want him to be an adult. You want him to step up.

But getting angry is a "parent" response. It tends to elicit a "child" response.

This is a very helpful thread. My husband is PA and currently in therapy which was his idea (I wanted a divorce).

He has been totally accepting of his behaviour since we identified it two months ago. He has read an awful lot and is trying very hard to manage his emotions. I have spent years trying to figure him out and unfortunately it has left me depressed, anxious and angry (and a host of other negative emotions along the way). I feel relieved that we have finally identified the 'problem' but I am very sceptical about therapy working because I've just got no trust left so it's very hard for me to see things working out.

My husband has also come to realise that his issues have their roots in his childhood. He wasn't allowed to show emotion, was mocked for doing so. Went to boarding school and has had a distanced relationship with his family. PA is rife amongst his family too, they also play happy families to each other's faces and to the outside world but there is so much covert anger and they slag each other off behind their backs.....it's very draining but I now see it for what it is. Very different to my own family dynamic which wasn't perfect by any means but at least everyone was pretty straight with each other.

I agree with pp who say to take it at face value. So: when he says 'oh, forget it' about the photo, just say 'OK' and move on to the next thing - as though it genuinely was something not worth attending to.

Easier said than done: I'd be absolutely raging inside :D

I'm not a big fan of therapy, but I've read a few good books on assertiveness, some with role play exercises in which can help you figure out alternative responses in situations where you might habitually become passive, aggressive or PA. Would that be worth a try?

Take a look:

www.counselling-directory.org.uk/transactional-analysis.html

No. Giving expression to felt anger is healthy. The expression is from the perspective of your 'self', it's about how the bullshit feels. A parent would engage in blaming, instructive anger, and use 'you' statements. Telling the PA how he should feel. A PA doesn't say anything at all about the anger he feels.

If I had a PA mother and she said deliberately hurtful PA things. I would probably say, ' I feel quite hurt when you say things like that' in unemotive language. It reminds her that you are a healthy functioning entirely normally non PA being and you get it that this is hurtful but actually you are in control of yourself. It is hurtful but you aren't going to let it emotionally flood you. To persistently ignore it is actually passive aggressive in itself.

I agree with Lewj.

I was told in therapy for a sort of trauma difficulty I have that anger is a valid emotion as it's a symptom that something isn't right. But it's about how that anger is processed, communicated, and used.

If you are truly assertive and confident in your assertion there won't be anger.

Anger is an emotion though, and one that grows of not properly dealt with or the needs/ injustice met.

However, you'd hope, being correctly assertive to a reasonable person would result in that injustice being sorted out.

Repressing your anger as a defence to a passive aggressive (who is repressing his anger by making you express it for him) sounds completely stupid to me.

www.psychotherapy.net/blog/title/through-the-anger-looking-glass

I think I've sort of said what stiffened said in her last paragraph (I assume a her!)

Also, The Dance of Anger book I think tajes the premise that anger as an emotion is ok but it's a symptom to tell you to do something to change things. Assert confidently, make changes, take responsibility.

Yellowpostitnote - It sounds like you agree with me on the anger issue, rather than Lewj.

Yellowpostitnote - Definitely a lady (and definitely not PA).

I'm actually not sure! It's a very confusing area.

I found this article a good explanation of PA. I suspect I suffer from a little of it myself as never learnt how to speak out about things I don't like until I was very unhappy. But I don't think that's expressing anger. I think it's asserting your needs.

www.counselling-directory.org.uk/counsellor-articles/what-is-passive-aggressive-behaviour

Also, I think I can sulk as I'm actually not sure I'm being reasonable and am battling with myself about if It's a valid thing to communicate or I'm being over sensitive!