I am totally destroying my 7yo DD. Please help me work out what to do.

[thoroughlymortified]

I've suffered from MH issues all my adult life, have had every form of therapy, medication, hospitalisation and alternative approaches on the planet: none have helped. I've never managed to hold down a job for long, and though I am married, it's a difficult relationship - for obvious reasons. I currently don't fit the referral criteria for any local MH services due to the duration, complexity and non-response to prior treatment. I had come largely to accept that this is my life from now on, and that I would never feel better and never find the help I needed. Until today.

Today I realised that my DD's recent behaviour has been a direct response to how bad I have been feeling recently. For several days now, she has been screaming at me whenever I have asked her to do anything, has been refusing to eat anything I have cooked (though DH has been feeding her instead to make sure she doesn't go hungry), has been screamingly refusing to do any work or activities (she's home educated). She just seems so angry, and so unhappy. I have another child, DS5, who seems his normal self, but I have always recognised DD to be the more sensitive one.

And so, whereas I know that I can no longer get any help for myself - what do I do about DD? How do I help her? My guess is that (from what I know of family and friends who work within the local CAMHS) that she won't reach the threshold for children's MH services unless she self-harms or does something criminal oh God please no. But what can I as a mother going through this now do? Should I be firm with DD about the need for family meals and home ed work, or do I overlook her screaming and refusals. Do I try and stay away from DD as much as possible to minimise my impact upon her, or do I try to cuddle and talk to her and reassure her? Do I ask Social Services for advice on handling DD, or will they simply get me removed from the house so I can't make things worse? And how do I make sure that DS is really as OK as he seems?

And I would step away from any attempt at formal school work and do.a little unschooly type living for a while, focus on your relationship and activities together.

I have MH issues too, and please don't repeat the title of your post to yourself. When you catch yourself thinking it, try to remind yourself that you're a loving mum doing your best, even if you don't believe it at the moment.

Firstly, I'd recommend seeing if you and your husband can each have a calm, in depth chat with your daughter about what's troubling her, about her behaviour, reassuring her etc. That behaviour isn't acceptable from a 7 year old, and with help and gentle questions, together you might be able to help her understand and explain what's at the root of it. Also talk to DS reassuringly.

Secondly, I'd start looking for outside health by seeing your GP. Go along without DD but, if possible, with a video of some of the behaviour. S/he'll know where you can find the right support.

Thirdly, if more space for both of you would help, that needn't mean stopping home schooling. It sounds like you're already taking advantage of at least some of what's on offer in that area.

Fourthly, would a temporary respite be possible for all of you, eg the children staying with grandparents for a weekend? Especially if your marriage is already not that easy. You need regular breaks to help stave off acute MH crises.

You sound like a lovely mother. And I suspect that at least some of those saying you shouldn't home school are people who are generally not in favour of homeschooling anyway. It's worth being open to the complexities of your family meaning that it might not always be viable I suppose, but it sounds like you are already open to that, and DD going through a very difficult phase shouldn't be a basis for much longer term decisions.

Great advice from StratfordSarah and Knittingwithnettles

Just had a long talk with DH. He thinks DD is basically fine, and thinks that she is basically coping OK with my MH. He has agreed though that I need a break, and has offered to take the weekend off his usual hobbies to take the DCs to their music clubs and sports practice. I'm just very aware that he needs the break too - besides his weekend hobby, his life is all work and parenting, with no outlet for himself. Should I accept his offer?

Elizabeth how do I talk to DD like that? I realise that maybe my cluelessness about how to do it probably reflects part of the problem as well. But how do I ask her how she's feeling?

I would love for the DCs to have a break somewhere. We do have various family members around, and again it's worth me thinking about how I might ask. I have never asked before.

I have been the child of a parent with severe mental health issues. It was horrible and unsettled my whole childhood. I just never felt that anything was stable and was aware that things could change in an instant. I am very close with my DF now and alot of my nurse training really opened my eyes to mental illness. However, me and my sister begged my mum to leave and she did. It broke their marriage up as me and my sister were just too stressed, starting to see negative changes in our behaviour etc. It has defined both our lives and despite a wonderful dm that period of my childhood is very sad. I wouldn't wish a parent with MH isues on any child. Please don't think that because you can't avail of any help at the min that she can't. Go down every avenue you can, do your ds too. She needs a safe space, her own outlet. Who can she talk to about you and your illness? She probably needs space and time away from you to focus on herself.

I hope that she can talk to the activity leaders and play workers at the clubs and groups she attends. But yes, I am looking into more focused carers groups as a result of this thread.

to you. I am sorry for what you went through.

I have suggested to DH that it might be best for the DCs if we split up.

My 17 y o son thinks she would she would be much happier at school.

Fgs! My mother had very serious mental health issues and the difference was that she had absolutely no insight or awareness of the damage and chaos she was causing.

Op is more than aware that she may be falling somewhat short, but let's keep in mind that there are thousands of parents out there that are managing to mess up there kids without any mental health issues to contend with.

It sounds almost like a self-esteem issue caused by the MH issues and by all means take all the good and positive advice on this thread, but keep in mind that you're doing the best you can and are aware of your issues and doing your best to address them.

OP are you ok? You sound a bit unstable, batting from one idea to the other. Why would it be better if you split up? Of course you should take him up on his offer of helping out this weekend, you have the weekend off and leave him to it. You need to rest.

Perhaps you are thinking if you remove yourself from the situation, it will help. It won't, especially if you have been HEdding.

You are just lurching I feel from big solution to big solution- SS, splitting up, and so on. These are not good solutions to what sounds like fairly normal if not very nice child defiant behaviour. This is really a sign you are stressed and having difficulty coping. I honestly think the best thing you could do for your dd is seek help or seek additional help (as you may have had help from services)for your own mental health issues, and then, once you feel more stable and can see things more clearly, then the solutions with your dd will be also more clear.

I may have read this wrong, and if I have, I'm sorry, it's just all your solutions seem very over-reactive, and that's why I wonder if you are in the best state of mind to make them.

Lovelyskin I think you make a fair point about the solutions I'm diving between. And yeah, I am not OK but as I said in the OP I have given up hope for that - I just want my DCs to be OK. If I didn't have them reliant upon me, I would off myself in an instant.

Hello. I am a big fan of homeschooling (we homeschool our four kids), but I do think attending school might be good for your child.

I grew up with a mother with under-treated bipolar illness and going to school, where I made good friends, and interacted with healthy adults, was essential for me.

(However, I am not saying that you are as ill as my mother was. You have a great sense of self-awareness. I do think that having the kids in school would give you a nice break.)

I think some of the comments about home ed are the result of people believing that home ed children don't have access to people outside the family. This is not necessarily so, many home ed communities are very, very strong and in fact many home ed children spend more time socialising than their peers at school.

As a fellow home edder, it does get a bit intense at times. We have found that the only approach that works is complete openness and honesty. What children seem to have the most trouble with is not knowing where they stand, as soon as they know what is going on - and, critically, that it is not their fault - they seem perfectly able to cope. Even when that means having to say 'mummy has PMT so is likely to be impatient and short tempered for a few days, it is not anything you have done just her hormones'.

It is impossible to 'front' all day every day, even without MH issues. So when you are spending all day every day with your children, you necessarily will have to expose them to more of the unvarnished you than if you have several hours a day without them. Whether this is good or bad in the long run I don't know.

thoroughly please please go and see your Gp or whoever is best to see about your mental health. I see from your posts that you are a lovely person who wants the best for their children but really running into difficulties right now, as evidenced by your last post. This is beyond HE vs school, it's about getting you to be as well as possible so you and your husband/partner can make good decisions together. They don't all have to be made today. I think your mood is very low and that's stopping you seeing the picture clearly. Will you go for some help? Who do you normally see? Could your partner support you in that?

I apologise if I have been coming across as defensive to those telling me to stop home educating. I am very much considering doing so. But I also know that I have felt and suffered like this for so many years that the problems I pose for DD would still be there in a similar-ish form before and after each school day.

Also my DF was 'untreatable' years upon years of every diagnosis and treatment, periods of being an inpatient (voluntarily and numerous times sectioned) However now, over 20 years later he is happily married with a 1yr old daughter. He honestly is a completly different man. Yes he still sufferers from MH issues and I always have that worry for my sister at the back of my mind but he can cope now. He refuses to believe he was untreatable and believed his life was worth more. So please yes worry about your daughter but don't give up on yourself.

lovely as I explained in my OP, there isn't any help out there left. I'm not averse to talking to my GP, but there's nothing she can do to help. It's just the way the systems are at the moment - and even when services were available, they never helped me.

X-post with Ryan - what suddenly helped your DF?

I know quite a few home educators and they all have different ways of home educating. Some do a lot of "spontaneous" but most have quite a low key approach, doing same meetups on same days of the week, Scouts, Brownies, Woodcraft Folk, parks groups, english lesson, french lesson (these are very small scale). Essentially they have a routine like the rest of us who send our children to school, it is just more home based. No-one tends to just go off sailing or searching for fossils, for a start with several children these things are quite awkward (and home edders round here often have toddlers too) not to speak of expensive. Your dd probably just wants to know when she is seeing her friends, in advance rather than feeling she might suddenly be told you are not going to do something for reasons of your own. Or else you have to have a chat about how sometimes there might be alternative to what you have "planned" (always make alternative equally enticing - something you only do on that day when plans fall through)

I used to get tired of all that walking, it is often for much older children that these sort of events are set up.

Definitely let your dh help, being a SAHM home educating doesn't preclude the one with a job helping at weekends!!! Honestly, dh has a job and I'm a SAHM and he still does loads with kids at weekends - why wouldn't he? And ask other family members to help too - the more help the better you will feel and the less exhausted.

The other thing is the other adults you meet when home educating are your support not just your dd and ds's, they are the ones that sustain you, so your social life with THEM is equally important, even if you just start small and confine it to chatting when you are with them. It can be a bit overwhelming but most people tend to be quite discreet about not oversteppign boundaries and it is just a nice thing to be able to share your emotions disappointments happy moments when you meet other home edders - it puts things so much in perspective.

i wonder whether you have spent so much time putting on a front that you have forgotten that lots of other people often feel fed up and tired out too, possibly if you don't confess it, they won't mention their own feelings. Anyway, I always found sharing therapeutic.

" I have felt and suffered like this for so many years that the problems I pose for DD would still be there in a similar-ish form before and after each school day."

No child has a perfect childhood. Maybe having her at school would give you a few hours to relax/ work through issues/ counselling. Being away from you might make your daughter appreciate time with you more. Having a few hours to do household jobs may mean you can have more quality time with her.

Trying school would be an experiment. You could even ask if you could flexi school initially and then build up the days if school is working.

No magic potion unfortunately. It was a long process. And a.large factor was him changing his own thinking and perception of himself. He honestly believed after 20/15/20 years no one could help him. He turned very badly to alcohol at one point too. He met with yet another CPN. We dragged him kicking and screaming to be honest. He just connected with this man for some reason. I took over his care and basically forced him to revisit every doctor/crisis team etc. I showed up sobbing and refused to take him home once, asked for all their GMC numbers and said i would go to all the papers. He thought Jesus had put him on earth to avaenge the sinners at that point. Haha it was quite the scene!They kept him in for 5 month's, that was 6 years ago now. I don't know what was different but the daddy I remembered came back out that time. He knows all his triggers and warning signs and importantly isnt afraif to ask for help early. You just cant give up. you just can't. You may just meet that one doctor or nurse or professional who helps to start to change things for you. Mental health services here in NI are shocking and you really need to be proactive and fight constantly to get help. Unfortunately when you feel so low, being proactive is the last thing you feel. I can't stress I enough but please please do nt give up on yourself. You are worth more and deserve more.

Do you have any hobbies? It's nice to do something for yourself without the kids tagging along.