I am totally destroying my 7yo DD. Please help me work out what to do.

[thoroughlymortified]

I've suffered from MH issues all my adult life, have had every form of therapy, medication, hospitalisation and alternative approaches on the planet: none have helped. I've never managed to hold down a job for long, and though I am married, it's a difficult relationship - for obvious reasons. I currently don't fit the referral criteria for any local MH services due to the duration, complexity and non-response to prior treatment. I had come largely to accept that this is my life from now on, and that I would never feel better and never find the help I needed. Until today.

Today I realised that my DD's recent behaviour has been a direct response to how bad I have been feeling recently. For several days now, she has been screaming at me whenever I have asked her to do anything, has been refusing to eat anything I have cooked (though DH has been feeding her instead to make sure she doesn't go hungry), has been screamingly refusing to do any work or activities (she's home educated). She just seems so angry, and so unhappy. I have another child, DS5, who seems his normal self, but I have always recognised DD to be the more sensitive one.

And so, whereas I know that I can no longer get any help for myself - what do I do about DD? How do I help her? My guess is that (from what I know of family and friends who work within the local CAMHS) that she won't reach the threshold for children's MH services unless she self-harms or does something criminal oh God please no. But what can I as a mother going through this now do? Should I be firm with DD about the need for family meals and home ed work, or do I overlook her screaming and refusals. Do I try and stay away from DD as much as possible to minimise my impact upon her, or do I try to cuddle and talk to her and reassure her? Do I ask Social Services for advice on handling DD, or will they simply get me removed from the house so I can't make things worse? And how do I make sure that DS is really as OK as he seems?

Agreeing with all the others that with a mentally ill mother with a history of hospitalisation who now feels she is 'destroying' a child, school could be the breath of fresh air you both need. She would have friends and other adults in her life modelling behaviour for her, she would have an existance outside of the home. Right nw it must be stifling, especially if she's bearing the burden of your issues too (which you feel she is.)

What kind of behaviour do you exhibit tha you think is having an effect on her? Shouting? Crying? Self-harm? What is it your daughter sees or hears you doing that could alter her behaviour?

Are you sure she isn't just having ordinary tantrums? Kids reject food and schoolwork all the time.

If you're in such a bad place mentally you feel you're 'destroying' her and can never be cured, you need to give her some space from that.

Today I realised that my DD's recent behaviour has been a direct response to how bad I have been feeling recently. In what way exactly? What I mean is, what is it about how you are day to day that could be affecting her?

Maybe there is a middle-ground. Don't know where you are but in some areas there is flexi-schooling which some "home-schooled" people use. My DN did this in Wales.
I tutored my DS for 11+ myself and that was v stressful trying to get him to do work. I can imagine it's extremely stressful for both of you to do it full time.

I really feel for you, my family has had a horrendous time over the last three years resulting in me suffering from stress and depression. I think, when you have MH issues, it's very easy to blame yourself for others bad or negative behaviour. Are you sure that it's your situation that is causing your dd to behave like this? Often 7yo girls can behave like this because they are growing up and testing boundaries. I wonder if you can step back a bit from blaming yourself and actually team up with your DH, and try to tackle your DDs behaviour together?

I home educated my son, so I understand some of the entanglement you are referring to.

Can I respectfully ask whether you have considered the possibility that your daughter may have HFA (I am HFA myself, I think and her behaviour rings a lot of bells) and just be the sort of child that is intrinsically very sensitive, so fussy about meals and fussy about demands, and finds structure and routine important, but not the wrong sort of structure and routine (sorry that sounds absurd, but you probably understand what I am getting at... demands have to be very limited and goals have to be very easily achieved, and familiar rather than confusing) Along with this, she is probably very very sensitive to how you are feeling but unable to process her emotions. Transitions and getting ready and changing activity midway through day might also be difficult for her. She might be anxious about meeting people and new situations. My son started out like this (he has HFA) when we first started home educating, although he was much older (12) so it can be a shock when they don't seem to be able to cope with the freedom and appear to throw it back in your face.

Added to this you are probably feeling very "judged" and "responsible" as a home ed mum (we often do) and this has slightly tipped the balance in the atmosphere, you are worrying about whether you are doing the right thing mealwise, education wise, activities wise.

I suppose the key is to just starting backing off, chilling out and reducing the demands on both of you. So what if she doesn't feel like eating anything you cook or doing any approved activities. Just detox together. Watch a film. Make some fudge. Eat some sandwiches on the floor together. Don't judge yourself. Take a holiday from the responsibility of home education and enjoy the freedom it gives. After all that is why you did home educate presumably???

come over to home ed board and perhaps some good ideas for burnout there.

I often found I set my sights too high, when a good relationship can often be based on very simple tasks done together, colouring a picture, sticking a few feathers in a scrap book, whereas my plans often went out the window if they were too elaborate. And that can make you feel a bit cheated and anxious as a home educating parent, but don't let it. The key is just to enjoy spending time together whatever it is you are doing.

And word of advice. Don't be "firm". Home ed is not school. Firmness isn't the atmosphere you wish to create. You need her to feel safe first, so no reactions and flareups from you or emotional reponses if she doesn't do what you "want". Then once she feels a bit safer, you can model being very responsive.

She genuinely might not be hungry if there is a lot of cortisol in her system (suppresses appetite) because she is stressed interacting with you, whereas eats husband's food because doesn't associate it with stress/demands. So work on reducing stress around meals. Start with popcorn, small amounts, building confidence, then move onto proper food. Don't be firm. Don't be frightened of showing affection to her, but don't expect her to give you affection back at this stage, just show her you are available and "Safe".

Three/four books to read.

How to Talk so Kids Will Listen (very good even for SN situations - ie doesn't believe in Time out as effective) and very good for everyday parenting
Explosive Child
Out of Sync Child and Out of Sync Child has Fun
Home educating Asperger's Child Liz Pyles or something like that

You sound like a loving and responsive mother, not someone who is damaging their child, really you do. But there is always more work in parenting than one might think. It is a voyage of discovery and often you look back and think oh I need to do that differently from before, there is no shame in that.

DH has MH issues, they make home life stressful. He needs time to be away from the noise and clamour and then can hold it together for the times he is with the DC. During that time he's a wonderful father.

You need to send them to school. Sorry but they need a break from you and you from them, it's that simple.

When DH was bad and I was reacting (shouting stressful) DD1 screamed too. When things are calm she's calm.

Your DD doesn't yet have MH issues, please give her the space she needs to be away from that environment. And don't ask her, she's a kid, she doesn't know another life and she doesn't want to hurt her mum.

knitting Interesting that you raise the question of HFA in relation to DD, and certainly worth considering. It's something I'd wondered about a lot with DS (who, like me, is very introverted and indifferent to social interaction) but never for her. DD is just so socially-able and gregarious that my main worry in stopping home ed would be the way that school might limit her social horizons. But yes, I think you have a point.

Thanks for your support. And to reassure - I cannnot, cannot, cannot ever "do" firm anyway. I just wondered whether I should have tried tried harder.

I agree this isn't about the schooling - and it sounds like your kids are far from isolated; being part of an active, close and supportive home ed community outside the home and having clearly well educated support in the home. In fact, schools can be utterly shit places for kids to go and will do nothing to help some children, they cannot compete imo with a comprehensive home-ed solution like you suggest your dd has.

Why do you think there is no hope for you? If you have financial resources you can probably do way better than the nhs could with regards to mh issues! Or perhaps another approach altogether would be of benefit? You need to keep searching and asking what you can do to help yourself. What are your issues? What are your limitations? What aspects of YOUR behaviour, specifically, do you think are causing your dd's problems? Do you and your dh parent very differently from each other? It's hard to be helpful with so little information on what you determine as being the cause of the problem (your mh). More background information may attract much better advice than you have got here today...

Don't withdraw from your dd. She can never have enough time and love invested in her from you. Definitely make time for her, reassure her of your love for her and do some research to find ways you can help her (Playful Parenting used to be a commonly recommended resource here and there are plenty of other books/websites which may be able to offer advice on why your dd is behaving as she is and how you/your dh can support her). There may be changes you can both make which will be very beneficial for all of you. Be as proactive as you can.

SS may be able to help actually, in general they don't go around ripping families apart without some evidence of abuse going on...they may be able to help directly or put you in touch with other services that could support your family.

Also...your issues have been going on forever basically and yet your dd's issues only cropped up in the last several days... DAYS! Presumably before this all was well with her? And your ds is happy and doing fine by the sounds of it. This does not exactly makes sense in itself. Somehow you've got through 7 years with your kids being ok despite your mh issues...and now suddenly there's a problem so it must be you? Is there anything that has changed relatively recently that could be the cause of your dd's behaviour?? Kids do change too (hormones/experiences they can't process etc)! Is there anyone who knows your family well who could shed some light on the situation? You may be looking at things from a difficult perspective that has skewed things.

Hi OP. Just offering sympathy as a fellow home educator. It can get a bit intense sometimes, can't it? You sound like you're doing your best for your daughter. Can I ask what your reasons are for HE?

You are fully aware of the problem so that is a good start.
I would suggest you involve her in another warm environment such as brownies and also send her to school. No child can be brought up by just one person, but a variety such as teachers and grandparents and others.

Oops. I realise I asked you how old your 7yo dd is. Sorry.

While it's important, of course, to consider what's best for your dd in terms of education, can I also ask what's best for you in terms of being a home educator? Your dd is only half the equation here and your health and wellbeing are equally important.

You rightly point out that we shouldn't question your ability. There's no reason for you not to be an absolutely fantastic and inspiring teacher to your dd, but does being the main provider of her HE make you feel good? Is it helping your mental health or stressing you more? Would you feel better or worse if dd went to school and you had time to yourself for a few hours?

If HE not working for you then it cannot be possibly work for her.

In response to BusPuppy and her Qs - firstly, I apologise for the vagueness and drip-feed. I didn't want to out myself, though by already stating my professional training, I probably already have.

The problems are

• My behaviour is erratic. One day I'll be putting up a perfect front, the next I'll be hiding under the duvet crying - and I can see that the DCs struggle with the inconsistency and unpredictability
• I'm inflexible. The whole ethos of the home ed community thrives on spontaneity, and on creating exciting new opportunities. I find going to new places and immersing them in new activities very stressful - I can see that the DCs pick up on my anxiety about taking them to new places and activities.
• I don't have much energy, and I get tired very quickly. As much as they socialise a lot, DCs miss out on the long countryside nature and geology walks and winter surfing trips - I am increasingly getting the "if X's mummy is taking him to do A, B and C, why can't you"

Hi just wondering if you have any sort of Young Carers in your area, it's not just for children who physically care for their parents, but for all children who may worry about or be any way affected by having a parent who is ill. Also children's social care might well be able to provide advice, even just on the phone, or point you to sources of help. If I were working with you I might consider a TAF (team around the family) so support could be provided for you and your daughter. This is NOT social care - could be something like an advice worker who comes to your home and provides 1:1 parenting support and advice,.

My mum was diagnosed with schizophrenia when I was 4. This was a very long time ago (1980s) and I now believe it was more likely to have been bi polar and she was misdiagnosed. She was in and out of hospital - especially over Christmas time- until I was about 9 and then had a long road to recovery on many different tablets until she weaned herself off them when I was about 20 and hasn't taken anything or had any relapses for the last 20 years ish.

As a child I found it very difficult, I didn't really understand why my mum was sad and angry all the time. She made me feel that the world wasn't a good place to be and that's not a good thing for a child to grow up feeling. Instead of being the child I grew up feeling responsible for her. A feeling I have carried with me all my life and still do.

Saying that, it sounds like I'm angry with her. Maybe I am a little but at the same time I know it's not her fault, no one chooses to have mental illness. I had terrible severe pnd after the birth of my first child and I was on a level of anti depressants they don't even prescribe anymore.

I'm not too sure of the point of my post in lots of ways, I guess I just read about your dd and felt like I was looking at me. I wonder if part of her reluctance to stop home ed is because underneath it she recognises it to be important to you, and she feels that sense of responsibility to you, to keep you happy. Some might disagree but I would actually tell her, rather than give her the choice, that she's returning to school. You need the space to get better and find out what you need from life and she needs to have a wider circle. It will be good for her long term too, especially if you foresee the mental health issues to be something that isn't going to improve (although I think it's best to always hope that it will).

I would look at your relationship too. My mums - and my own- mental health greatly improved by leaving unhappy marriages. It's extremely draining to put a face on / behave a certain way for someone else.

"I just I just cannot see how her being in school would suddenly solve everything. She would still be with me for every morning and evening and weekends, and would also be coping with the loss of the large and close-knit peer group she has grown up with. I'm struggling to understand how putting her in school for 6 hours a day removes my responsibility to her for the other 18 hours."

Is home education about meeting your needs or her needs? Home educating your daughter to give you a social life is unfair. Educational options should be about what is best for the child. School might work or it might not. The decision to try out school would not be irreversible.

really I meant that SHE would lose out socially, not me. Home ed doesn't give me any sort of social life, and I wouldn't expect it to.

Op, I don't have much advice, but anybody with as much insight and concern as you have for your children isn't going to go too far wrong even with mental health difficulties.

It sounds like you've lost confidence in your parenting abilities, but do bear in mind that all children have their quirks and issues, regardless of what's going on around them. Try not to beat yourself up too much here and blame everything on yourself.

I don't think it matters if she goes to school or not. What's more important is that you both have time apart, whether that be a home ed session or state education. There are alternatives to state - Steiner or land schools.

I'm currently looking into the question of local carers groups. I have a friend with MS whose son goes to one, and he seems to get a huge amount out of going.

Also, fairylea I am sorry you went through that.

As a fellow home educator, sending her to school right now actually may give her the message that you don't want her around. So I disagree with that advice right now, and it is distracting from the real point.

To what extent can you talk to her about the problems you are facing? How much input does DH have day to day? How much cuddling goes on?

So you're trying really really hard to do something that causes you stress and anxiety exacerbating your MH issues - and you feel like you're failing to be the home educator you aspire to be, because of fatigue and bad MH days.

I realise you have a lot invested in HE, but it sounds like it is very hard on you. School might be the answer, because it has solid routine, which would be good for both you and the dc. You and the dc wouldn't necessarily have to give up contact with the HE community - admittedly when you no longer have it in common friendships may not continue, but if they're good friends, you should be able to keep them in contact.