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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

prenup without the nuptials

86 replies

cakestop2016 · 23/10/2016 08:29

I'm guessing a lot of people are going to tell me to run along and get married right away, but that isn't what I want to do.

Basically, partner and I met 8 years ago and bought a house together after 12 months. His parents gave him 40,000 to put down as a deposit, mine gave us nothing as they're poor. We had an agreement drawn up that if we were ever to separate then the first 40,000 would go to him.
We are now about to move house again and have 2 children, we both don't like the idea of marriage for various reasons (yes, I know it makes me vulerbale) I still work although now part-time since having DCS.

We are in the process of drawing up the mortgage for the new house and partner has mentioned that same "agreement" that he keeps the first 40,000. I was surprised since now we have children to consider and surely he would want us both to be able to create a stable home environment each should we separate. So assumed any remaining money would now be split.

Anyway, I just mentioned it to him. He told me he too feels uncomfortable about the "agreement" but that apparently it's his parents who have requested that 'their money' is kept 'safe in the family.'

I'm shocked by this after having 2 children with their son... surely they would want us all to be financially ok should we ever split?

Or is this quite a normal thing to do? We are not likely to split any time soon btw. It just makes me worry a little as to how I would cope financially if we ever did.

What do others think?

OP posts:

Dlah · 23/10/2016 17:56

Can't really offer advice but really pleased in a way to see this post. Myself and partner are just buying first house - his parents gifted us both 80k towards it, and I agreed to sign that it was there's but with hassle of paperwork they said they didn't want me to in end, just wanted us to stay together for our first child on way.

My partner then had an issue with it, saying they were being stupid, and no matter how good things are now, we don't know what future holds. So we've ended up doing a dead of trust with the 40% going straight to him and the other 60% split 50/50, basically his share has become 70 and mine 30. I have no issues with this but I do wonder if we buy a new house down the line where we'll stand/how it will work etc

Good luck sorting!

HappyJanuary · 23/10/2016 17:57

If I was his mum I'd want that sum ringfenced too.

50% of marriages fail, and should your relationship fail in the future they want to make sure that their gift benefits their son.

I'm sure they love you and want the relationship to work out, but it just isn't their responsibility to give you a £20k gift if it doesn't. What if you had an affair, took your share and set up home with your new man?

If you ultimately separate your financial situation would presumably be no worse than if they'd never given the sum to their son in the first place.

Trifleorbust · 23/10/2016 18:41

Even with a deed of trust, you can't guarantee any specific amount will be returned to one divorcing individual - the needs of each partner and a fair settlement will come first. So in reality, the deed of trust will only stand for as long as they are cohabiting.

Trifleorbust · 23/10/2016 18:44

Dlah: Surely that ratio applies only to the 80k equity and not to the eventual total value? So, if your home went up 20% in value in 10 years, you would be entitled to 50% of the remaining value once the 80k had been accounted for?

AuntieStella · 23/10/2016 19:30

OP: I recognise your username, and though it would be bad form to drag up gratuitously everything you've posted, it seems pretty relevant to thus that you have been going through a bad patch for 6 months or so, and cancelled your wedding.

£20k is unlikely to make any key differences to what you could afford if you do bin him off. And if he has told his parents much about the recent months, then it's very likely they will want their input to their DS's finances to continue to be ring fenced. As might he (though he's unlikely to say that directly).

I suggest that you do not make a fight of this point, and accept that his family money is his.

You need to remake your own financial independence. Can you start job hunting, or do you need to retrain?

Dlah · 23/10/2016 19:37

Trifleorbust - yes correct, we said if anything happens the 80k will come out first and whatever left will be ours to split equally

MrTCakes · 23/10/2016 20:12

We are not likely to split any time soon btw
Well that sounds optimistic

Somerville · 23/10/2016 20:47

I wouldn't feel financially secure enough to drop down to part-time in your situation, OP. You should go back to work full-time and make sure your DP pays half the childcare.

As for the 40k - gifts should be freely given, without caveats or restrictions, to my mind. So if his parents wanted to protect that money they should have loaned it to him, not gifted it. A loan to be paid back when there is enough equity in the future is what I would do for one of my DC if they were in your situation.

Another question worth you looking into is what has he done with that 40k in his will. If he dies then you won't even get widowed parents allowance. If he's left 40k to his parents to keep the 'gift' from you then you'll end up having to sell the family home too, at a time that your DC would be emotionally fragile and needing as much stability as possible.

TempusEedjit · 23/10/2016 21:16

I'd usually agree that gifts should be freely given but when £40k is at stake his parents have every right to want it to be kept by their son. Presumably you'll have additional equity in your current/new house therefore all you'll need is the fair split of that equity to rent a decent home to house you and the DC whilst you have them. It is not your DP nor his parents' responsibility to keep you on the property ladder in the event of a split - your DP is entitled to spend that £40k on his DC without having to hand over half of it to you to spend on them on his behalf.

A marriage (as opposed to a wedding) is pretty simple and relatively cheap to arrange. You can't complain about not having the protection of marriage when you are making a free choice not to.

Aderyn2016 · 24/10/2016 08:06

But the OP has gone pt in order to provide childcare for their dc. Her dp benefits from that, so morally he would owe her some support in the event of a split.
The problem is that splits tend to be acrimonious and legally he doesn't have to give anthing more than child support.

Honestly OP you are mad to get into a pt work situation. I also think that your dp and his parents wont treat you as married, in terms of the money, all the time that you aren't. It is okay to be anti marriage but lack of rights is what it really means, unless you get separate legal agreements drawn up.
Having dc together only commits you to the children, not each other.

TempusEedjit · 24/10/2016 11:16

But the OP has gone pt in order to provide childcare for their dc. Her dp benefits from that, so morally he would owe her some support in the event of a split

Yes but then you could counter that she benefits from "his" full time wages which enable her part time hours so technically it evens out...and if it doesn't then she needs to rethink their arrangement/her hours all the time they remain unmarried.

Aderyn2016 · 24/10/2016 14:02

I guess it depends on whether she views going pt as a benefit to her or just to their shared children as to whether it evens out. But agree that she is daft to do it while having no legal protection in place for her contribution.

Original poster

cakestop2016 · 24/10/2016 14:59

WE have spoken about Wills etc as we're not married so that each other is ok financially should one of us die. My partner has always assured me that his affluent parents would look after me and their grandchild should anything happen to him, but after this recent revelation, I'm now not so sure.

OP posts:

Original poster

cakestop2016 · 24/10/2016 15:00

Hence why there are no wills and only this deed of trust.

OP posts:

minifingerz · 24/10/2016 15:29

"I have a large circle of friends who appear so stressed out by marriage and the organisation of it,"

There is no 'organisation' in a marriage that you also don't have in a cohabiting family relationship involving children.

"family disagreements etc" - with respect, you are posting about a 'family disagreement' (over the equity in your property) and yet you're not married.

"also many of our married friends are now going through divorce or separation and from a distance, it looks ugly."

Separation looks ugly when there is sadness, anger or guilt, financial entanglements, property issues to resolve. These are the really troublesome issues which cause heartbreak, not legally dissolving a marriage, which is usually fairly straightforward.

"We quite like the freedom of knowing each other can leave of we want to"

Married people can and do also 'just leave'. You aren't married but you would struggle to 'just leave' because you share a home and children with your partner.

"and I think that freedom actually keeps us together, knowing that we're here because we want to be."

Plenty of unhappy co-habiting families unable to leave each other because they can't afford to.

There's a reason why celebrity couples break up more often than others, and it's because they have the resources to just up and leave, regardless of their marital status.

Aderyn2016 · 24/10/2016 16:06

cake you cannot rely on his parents to take care of you in the event of something happening to your dp. You are a grown arse woman and as such, you have to have contingency plans in place to protect yourself and your dc should the worst happen. Do you really want to ever be reliant on people who are not even your ILs amd whose priorities are unlikely to align with yours?

Original poster

cakestop2016 · 24/10/2016 16:16

No I don't want to rely on his parents!! I was merely saying that when my partner and I have discussed making a will, initiated by myself, this is what HE responds with! That his parents will look after me and DCS. I have argued that I WANT to feel financially stable myself, but he tells me to stop worrying and refuses to speak about the matter further! I am not happy allowing his parents to look after me and DC, that is not what I was saying at all. More that DP refuses to discuss matters any further and responds with this statement. I've accepted it begrudgingly until now to keep the peace!

OP posts:

AttilaTheMeerkat · 24/10/2016 16:26

Do not accept that even begrudgingly.

Why have neither of you made a will?. That needs to be done asap. Dying intestate is not a pretty legal picture at all particularly for those left behind.

Source your own legal advice and asap; knowledge is power.

I think that if your partner was to die suddenly you will be hit with a whole world of financial as well as emotional pain. Your partner has got his head in the clouds if he thinks that they will look after you if he was to die suddenly.

Lunar1 · 24/10/2016 16:39

You are far too vulnerable here. How much is the total equity? You may get enough for a deposit, but on what? Look at your income and see how much mortgage you would get on your own on what you earn today.

Could you buy anything for that or would you eat into the deposit renting until there is nothing left.

He takes his 40k, plus half the equity. He'd have to pay maintenance and you'd be stuck working as and when you could and forking out for childcare. What would be left for you to set up a home. To not be married in your circumstances is madness.

Maybe as he has so much security he could be the primary career, reducing his work and you could get your career to a better place for your future.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 24/10/2016 16:44

FWIW if my parents gave me money towards a house they would expect that money to be ringfenced as mine in case of a split from DH. As a parent yourself can you not understand why they would do so? (Even if you might not agree)

^ This.

It also isn't for your DP to dictate as to what his parents may or may not do if he was to die

It isn't his place to do so.

Aderyn2016 · 24/10/2016 16:50

At the very least get some life insurance for him for which you are named sole beneficiary (if you don't have it already). It would allow you to pay the mortgage and feed your kids if he died and his accounts were frozen.
This is kindly meant, but you cannot afford to just go along with what he says, for a quiet life. He has all the advantages here so can take a laid back approach because if you split he still has a career and a big chunk of the equity. You have nothing!
Just get married, for goodness sake

PersianCatLady · 24/10/2016 16:56

It's quite normal in the modern day to not be married and have children, probably law needs to reflect this change in society
It does not need to change at all.

If you want the benefits of being married then get married otherwise you will just have to make other legal arrangements.

Aderyn2016 · 24/10/2016 17:10

I may have missed it but are you joint tenants or tenants in common, because that makes a fair bit of difference if either of you dies. You don't want to he in a situation where his share of the house doesn't revert to you automatically and you must get somethibg in place to pay the mortgage if you are on a pt wage.

Original poster

cakestop2016 · 24/10/2016 17:52

Would a financial advisor assist in all this? Our finances have always been left to DP so no idea where to begin. Would a financial advisor be able to give me some advice here or would you recommend a solicitor for advice?

OP posts:

PersianCatLady · 24/10/2016 18:08

Would a financial advisor assist in all this?
It all depends what you need to do but an appointment with one could be a good start.

You will probably need a solicitor if you do choose to draw up new wills and the like.

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