Do all couples have doubts sometimes? And how do you find a way forward?

[WhyDidTheChicken]

I'm very private about my marriage so don't want to talk to anyone in real life but I feel like I need some outside views on this.

Our marriage is great, we have a lovely home and beautiful children. The problem is that every now and then my husband goes out and binge drinks and ends up in a terrible state.

Here's what happened the last time: He headed off on a night out at the weekend about 7.30 in the evening. He texted me a couple of times during the evening as he knows I get worried about his drinking, last contact was 11pm. He knew I was going to a gym class the next morning and he'd need to look after the kids so I could leave by 8.40ish. Except he doesn't come home.

I barely sleep all night (dreading him coming home in a state at any minute) and then from 6.30am I'm fielding the kids' questions about where their dad is. Awkward. I don't know the people he's out with to be able to get in touch, but I have the brainwave to check the tablet that he uses so that I can get their email addresses to try to trace him as I do feel some obligation as wife and mother of his children that I have to check he is alive and uninjured. I open up the tablet to find that the group has shared a photo on their email of my husband fully clothed including jacket and shoes, kneeling on the floor with his head on a sofa, face down and passed out, taken at about 7am that morning. One of the group is married to a TA at the kids' school so I have the added humiliation that, as well as him staying out all night and everything that neighbours/friends might assume if they saw him stumbling home the next morning, we may or may not be the subject of staff room gossip. (Thank goodness my kids are oblivious to that.)

I resign myself to the fact I'll be missing the gym class and go and get showered and dressed. He turns up about 9am. He asks me if I'm heading out, I say it's too late. I don't get into conversation with him, I'm too pissed off. He asks me again at 9.20am if I'm going to the class. I realise that he's still very drunk. I get the kids dressed and get out of the house, leaving him in the spare bed.

The kids have a great day, I keep them busy the whole time. He texts at 2pm saying sorry and where are you; I ignore it. He calls at 4pm but leaves no message so I ignore it, but by this point I'm worn out from a day of entertaining young children on no sleep so we head home.

I leave the kids downstairs with him and go to my bedroom for the peace and headspace I've been desperate for. He comes in and gives a half arsed apology in approx 30 seconds. Later in the evening, I don't want to be around him but I know I have to challenge him and ask questions about what he did, so we go through the motions... he has no memory of anything from about midnight onwards. He cannot even remember waking up in his friend's house or talking to me that morning when he was meant to be looking after the kids.

He can't understand that this is making me question staying together - he can't believe I would think about throwing away our marriage over one night, but I say to him it's not just one night, he keeps doing this (getting too drunk and losing hours of time). I've made him sleep in the spare room for the time being. I can't bear to have him sleeping next to me but I don't want him to be absent from the family.

He says he will do something like arranging more counselling but he doesn't really know what to do He's had two lots of counselling for this before, first time at my insistence and only to appease me it transpires. Second time was because he had a big wake up call last summer which resulted in an injury during his "missing hours" that he can't remember. (He had loads of drinking injuries before we even met so that was nothing new but seemed to be the tipping point that saw him seek help.)

I think he just says all that to appease me; in reality I think he'd prefer that we just made up and moved on from it whenever it happens. Unlike me, he enjoys being drunk and can't/won't stop himself. I love wine but hate getting beyond tipsy. He thinks I should lay off him because he never mentions anything when I get drunk (he was not able to tell me of any time that I had stayed out all night, injured myself, wet the bed, forgotten how to find my way home, etc - it doesn't happen - so I don't know why he's trying to excuse his behaviour just because I'm not tee total). He always tries to make me look like the unreasonable one, and nobody else's wife kicks up such a fuss...

These binge drinking episodes used to have a catastrophic effect on me (long history of depression and anxiety, and this would cause me a massive setback). The impact is not as great on me now - my husband thinks that's a good thing, I worry that it's a sign I don't care about our marriage as much as I used to.

I don't want to end our marriage. We're great together the rest of the time and I want him to be here and be parenting along with me.

Does every couple have their version of this, their "thing" that keeps raising its head occasionally and causing problems?

Is there an acceptable level of this kind of crap that everyone puts up with?

Where do I go from here?

(Sorry for such a very long post.)

Can I ask OP, what the hell is he doing until the early hours of the next morning, who is he with and what is going on?

So I asked about frequency because it doesn't sound like he has a problem with alcohol as being dependant on it. And from what you said he doesn't drink much at home it just the occasional binge. In my industry/life to be honest it's kind of normal. You play really hard occasionally although I can't say I know many people who have passed out on the floor etc. I would let it go but don't let him impact your agreed time out. I would have been pissed off if it had impacted my child or my class etc too x

www.alcoholics-anonymous.org.uk/

Read it and see what you think.

He has to want to go to AA though and you cannot make him do this. You also do not seem convinced of it either perhaps through your own lack of knowledge of what it does.

What he has tried to date though (these counselling sessions) clearly has not worked out. It was never going to work out. This is also because he does not want to address the reasons behind his behaviours which are long standing and predate your own relationship. He also thinks that he does not have a problem (which is itself an issue). he probably also badly underestimates how much he does drink at any one time.

You cannot help him but you can help your own self here by talking to Al-anon. They are specifically for people like yourself i.e. a person who is being affected by another person's drinking.

Unlike him you had and have the off button when it comes to alcohol. You have a healthy respect for it. Alcohol does not control you. Its however controlling him.

Did he come from a family of heavy drinkers himself?. I ask this only as sometimes alcoholism can be learnt behaviour.

Now you fully do realise the whole extent of his problems you have to decide. You have a choice re this man, your children do not. You want to spend the next year, 3 or 5 with more of the same from him and or with even potentially greater frequency?.

chicken,

re your comment from your initial post
"(He had loads of drinking injuries before we even met so that was nothing new but seemed to be the tipping point that saw him seek help)".

That should have been a huge red flag to you so what happened. Why did you seemingly disregard it?.

You fell in love with him that is what happened (so I've probably answered that question myself) but unfortunately love is often not enough in these situations. Do you wonder even now why you did not leave back then?. Did you think deep down that marriage to you and or children would tame and stop these alcohol binges?.

What is in this relationship for you now, what are you getting out of this?. What needs of yours are being met here by him now?

Attila I do wonder why I didn't get out of it when I first realised... in fact I dug out a letter (email) that I wrote to him over 4 years ago where I was kicking myself that I pressed on through getting engaged, getting married, having children, all the while telling myself that he would change with each stage of a "grown up life". In the letter I also state that I have a feeling that I will end up a single parent because now I know he won't change, and it's just a matter of when I decide that enough is enough... Really makes me gutted to look back on that and realise that I haven't got off this stupid merry-go-round, I'm just constantly hoping it'll all go away and all be OK. I sent that to him again just saying "Remember this?" but he hasn't mentioned it.

You asked as well about what I get from our marriage... I honestly feel that almost every other aspect is great. And that's what's confusing me about how to deal with this. If I wasn't getting anything from it, it would be easy to see what I should do. But this is someone who I consider my best mate as well as my partner. No-one makes me laugh more. He's a better parent than I am most of the time. He's been really supportive of me when I've made difficult decisions and has enabled me to take different turns in my life and career that would not have otherwise been possible. He's hugely encouraging when I'm trying to take positive steps in my life but feel like giving up (like getting fit but wanting to give up when it feels too hard - ok except for this time when he made me miss my class). He makes me believe in myself and achieve things I would never even attempt without a shove. I don't think there's a better match for me anywhere in the world.

Also about the balance of power in the relationship in case that's relevant - I used to be the main earner and our first property was only in my name. Now he is the earner, but the house is in both our names. We normally have a very fair balance of power, but I do feel a bit powerless in the circumstances because I don't have the means to just take our kids and leave while he works out what he wants to do. He would not entertain the thought of moving out, it's quite something that I've even been able to get him to sleep in the spare room. In any case, I want both parents to be there for our children. It just annoys me that I have bugger all leverage and really no practical way of making or seeing through any ultimatum (I realise that the change needs to come from him and not coercion, but I'm struggling with words alone to make him see how serious I'm being).

Oh and yes there's a family history of alcohol issues on his side. Nothing on mine, hence why I've been trying to put my foot down and not accept this as normal family life. I don't want our kids growing up with it.

I suppose this is what it comes down to, in the past it's either been coercion or needing a wake up call that's driven him to listen to you on this so what will it take this time? You should not need to go in for a bit dramatic show down but in some way, you need to find a way to show him what this means to you and your future.

I think you are level headed enough to know you can't let it lie and continue as you are, because something in you has changed now. It's not your final straw moment - yet. But the next time might be.

When you speak to him, how do you go about this and how does he react?

Adora he was unable to answer anything about what occurred in those missing hours. I know he was in the home of one of the guys he was out with, because when I went to try and find their contact details on the tablet he uses the first thing that was there was an email saying "I think we had a good night, look what I found this morning..." with the photo of him passed out. I think his friends have filled in the gaps for him.

Someone else mentioned about social circles and how he needs new friends... he's the common denominator in this, his friends are not to blame. I used to think it was only certain groups it happened with, but this time it was with a completely different group of people. I thought it was a relatively "safe" night out that I didn't have to worry about.

Myusername I haven't wanted to speak to him, but I felt like there were questions that had to be asked so I did. We were just sitting on the sofa not talking to each other and I said "you haven't explained what you did last night..." as an opener. Then with every question he says "what do you mean?" so I always have to ask everything twice (buying himself some thinking time maybe?). He doesn't give up any information without being pressed on it. He gets fed up of the questions, there's eye rolling and heavy sighs (think: teenager). I think an explanation is the least I deserve so I'm quite tenacious I suppose, but it's not a shouting match.

I'd be very angry at what it is exactly he is getting up to for that amount of time, most of us go out for drinks and are home a few hours later, perhaps 6 or 7 at the latest but he's out all night long, doing what exactly - I am sorry OP but anything could be occurring, I don't think he's even in control of what he's doing so I would not rule out cheating either I'm afraid, not that I am saying he has but he's putting himself in situations where alcohol and if women are present, things happen.

It's his blaze attitude that gets me, like you should get over yourself, there's not many women that want to be married to a drunk, who wets himself and passes out with photographic evidence to pass around for a laugh.

I think it is important to be candid with everyone in your life about this (the DC only to the extent that is suitable, obviously): this is extreme behaviour, it is dangerous and disrespectful, upsets you and disrupts family life. It sets a terrible example to your children, forces you to take sole responsibility for them (and everything else) and has a corrosive effect on your relationship. I very much doubt your DH would blithely accept it if you behaved in the same way. It's compulsive behaviour-it sounds as though he can't drink any other way, so in a sense it is an addiction.

Don't soft soap the reality of it for your DH or anyone else.

It isn't trivial, even if the binges are infrequent. Every time your DH does this, he puts himself (and therefore, your family life) at real risk. He returns to this behaviour despite this and even though it worries and upsets you a lot.

If you are asking whether this is 'bad enough' to leave him for, you will get a variety of answers, none of which really matter. All that matters is if you now feel you want out, or not.

To answer the question in your OP, yes, we have our 'things' that do tend to keep coming up. But not like this, in a Groundhog Day way. We've never had one of us just ignore the other's strong feelings about something. More like, 'Well I don't think it's a big deal, but if it bothers you that much, of course I'll stop doing it.'

Oh and yes there's a family history of alcohol issues on his side. Nothing on mine, hence why I've been trying to put my foot down and not accept this as normal family life. I don't want our kids growing up with it.

But they already are growing up with it :(

He gets fed up of the questions, there's eye rolling and heavy sighs (think: teenager).

This is the worst thing. He doesn't even accept that his behaviour is bad. He's seriously minimising what he's doing and how that's affecting you and the DC. And I don't just mean that he physically isn't there and therefore you aren't able to do the things you'd planned: I mean your DC are growing up to realise that their father is unreliable, that it's normal for men to get so drunk they don't come home, have accidents, wet themselves, etc.

His primary relationship is with alcohol. You and the DC are a lower priority in his mind.

"Oh and yes there's a family history of alcohol issues on his side. Nothing on mine, hence why I've been trying to put my foot down and not accept this as normal family life. I don't want our kids growing up with it".

Sorry to write this but they are already growing up with it. They are also all too clearly seeing your reactions to it. Was not all that surprised either to see that there are alcohol issues on his side of the family; alcoholism can be learnt

What you have also tried has not and will not work out either. I cannot personally see your marriage lasting many more years at this rate because one day you will wake up and decide that you have finally had enough.

How many people in your own social circle know about his binges; not many I daresay. This type of stuff thrives on secrecy and you need to start opening up far more as to how his behaviours are affecting you. He basically cannot control himself at all around alcohol and will drink to the point of passing out. His friends have taken photos of him. And some of his friends are more likely than not to have alcohol problems themselves. His non alcoholic friends feel embarrassed for you.

What other injuries has he himself sustained over the years?.

Your mistake here was marrying him in the hope that he would change; he is not going to change for you or anyone else. Infact this man could well go onto lose everything around him and he could still choose to drink afterwards.

You are there for your children, he is not because his primary relationship is with drink. He is hearing only white noise from you and he does not want to address his drink problem. Why should he when you are also carrying this for him?. You are simply playing out the usual roles associated with such spouses; that of enabler and provoker (you never forget any of what has happened).

Painful as it is I would also read the 3 act play that is alcoholism. Act 2 is pertinent particularly to you and your part in all this.

You have a choice re this man Chicken, your children do not. And if anyone leaves your home Chicken it will be him, not you and your children. You are not as powerless as you think you are.

He always tries to make me look like the unreasonable one, and nobody else's wife kicks up such a fuss...

Well he would say that OP, I don't know any woman who wouldn't be as mad as hell if her partner never came home all night, and he leaves you with no contact so you are worried all night long - nice.

These binge drinking episodes used to have a catastrophic effect on me (long history of depression and anxiety, and this would cause me a massive setback). The impact is not as great on me now - my husband thinks that's a good thing, I worry that it's a sign I don't care about our marriage as much as I used to.

And therein lies your problem, he used to be so much worse so now, hey, you should be able to handle it, it's not that often - it's his whole overall attitude that stinks and his complete disrespect for you and the family - even once a year, this is ruining a marriage.

And again, what the hell is he doing from 7.30pm until 9am the next again day! That's drinking for 14 hours.

Chicken, did you just write that letter, as something for yourself or did you give it to him?

Attila I've clicked through to the AA link you gave me so I can come back to that later when I've time to read it. I think it's the 'higher power' thing that doesn't sit right with me - I always like to think that we have control and accountability for ourselves, what happens in life is down to our decisions and actions rather than fate or luck.

Also you mentioned that I'm his provoker - I don't know what that means in this context but I'll look it up and have a look at the things you've suggested.

On the subject of who knows... very few people. My own parents used to give me a lot of support on the other end of the phone (they're hundreds of miles away) but I don't bother them with it any more as they're getting older and I feel like we're in that transitionary period between your parents looking after you and you looking after your parents... I reached out to my husband's mum years ago (or tried to). She completely dismissed it and denied that he had a problem. She's very protective of him and won't hear anything said against him. However, he told her last year that he had this problem and that he was seeking help. After that, she did approach me and say sorry because I had asked for help before and she'd ignored it. I will be seeing her tomorrow as it happens, so perhaps I'll speak to her then. I don't speak to anyone else about it. I don't want to be the subject of pity or gossip but it's so hard trying to deal with and work out what to do on my own.

Kane I believe I emailed it to him at the time, and I sent it again at the weekend. I know he read it while sober, but nothing has been said about it.

Chicken, I think once you have sent that letter, then the relationship was pretty much over. How can you say all that and still be together?
I think despite your concerns and his behavior that letter was too harsh.

Was I too harsh with the letter?
I thought I'd been making it too easy for him all this time just by putting up with it and "letting" it continue. He complained that I don't exactly help him (to feel less bad about it all etc) and I said I'm not here to make him feel better about what he's done, he should feel bad.
Maybe I should just be turning a blind eye... I don't know

And honestly, truth be told, if I'd found out the extent of his drinking problem before we lived together, and if I'd felt strong enough to end it then, yes, I probably would have. Probably should have. We'd have had no ties to each other and I'd have been young enough to meet someone else and (maybe) have a family with them. But that didn't happen, we have a whole life together now, and it's mostly a good one. I've had lots and lots of happiness and amazing children, so I can no longer just walk away from a relationship without being sure that such an action is warranted.

Turning a blind eye - putting up with crap then OP and pretend what he is doing is normal.

It seemed more like a break up letter. Telling him you basically regret meeting him, marrying him, having children with him. These sentiments are different to what you have written here. Where you say there are many great aspects to your relationship. I just think that must have been sole destroying for him to read. Maybe he would have responded better if you had listed the good things in the relationship and why it would be silly throw all that away.
Anyone, with an ounce of self respect would struggle to stay in a relationship with someone that had written those regrets you had mentioned.

Totally disagree with Kanewrech, the OP did that as a last resort, this is not anything new, the OPs OH has been putting her through this crap their whole married life together, in fact when she wrote that letter back then she was at the end of her tether, for instance:
These binge drinking episodes used to have a catastrophic effect on me (long history of depression and anxiety, and this would cause me a massive setback). The impact is not as great on me now - my husband thinks that's a good thing, I worry that it's a sign I don't care about our marriage as much as I used to.

So it's ok for him to put her and the kids through hell but she can't bring up a letter than she wrote to him about years ago - I think the letter was good OP, it may make him wake up to stop being an arsehole and putting alcohol and friends before his own family.

It's not just the staying out all night, it's the next day or two when he is also suffering a come down.

I also disagree with OP being wrong with the sentiment of the letter if it didn't have any effect on him anyway, seeing how deeply this was affecting his family and doing nothing to try put it right.
He knows what he has to throw away - he lives with it every single day. Do you have to point out to a someone who is making a mess of their life what they could have, when they already have it?

I didn't say in the letter that I regretted meeting him and marrying him etc - just that I'd questioned myself and him at all those stages whether he would change his drinking pattern, and each time I thought the move towards more responsibility would make him change, so I ploughed on with the wedding and kids in the belief it would get better. It does speak about the good things too, and my confusion about what to do because much of it is so good and yet this drinking is a disaster for me... and it speaks of the acceptance that I know one day it'll be too much for me to bear, and I don't know when that'll be.