Do all couples have doubts sometimes? And how do you find a way forward?

[WhyDidTheChicken]

I'm very private about my marriage so don't want to talk to anyone in real life but I feel like I need some outside views on this.

Our marriage is great, we have a lovely home and beautiful children. The problem is that every now and then my husband goes out and binge drinks and ends up in a terrible state.

Here's what happened the last time: He headed off on a night out at the weekend about 7.30 in the evening. He texted me a couple of times during the evening as he knows I get worried about his drinking, last contact was 11pm. He knew I was going to a gym class the next morning and he'd need to look after the kids so I could leave by 8.40ish. Except he doesn't come home.

I barely sleep all night (dreading him coming home in a state at any minute) and then from 6.30am I'm fielding the kids' questions about where their dad is. Awkward. I don't know the people he's out with to be able to get in touch, but I have the brainwave to check the tablet that he uses so that I can get their email addresses to try to trace him as I do feel some obligation as wife and mother of his children that I have to check he is alive and uninjured. I open up the tablet to find that the group has shared a photo on their email of my husband fully clothed including jacket and shoes, kneeling on the floor with his head on a sofa, face down and passed out, taken at about 7am that morning. One of the group is married to a TA at the kids' school so I have the added humiliation that, as well as him staying out all night and everything that neighbours/friends might assume if they saw him stumbling home the next morning, we may or may not be the subject of staff room gossip. (Thank goodness my kids are oblivious to that.)

I resign myself to the fact I'll be missing the gym class and go and get showered and dressed. He turns up about 9am. He asks me if I'm heading out, I say it's too late. I don't get into conversation with him, I'm too pissed off. He asks me again at 9.20am if I'm going to the class. I realise that he's still very drunk. I get the kids dressed and get out of the house, leaving him in the spare bed.

The kids have a great day, I keep them busy the whole time. He texts at 2pm saying sorry and where are you; I ignore it. He calls at 4pm but leaves no message so I ignore it, but by this point I'm worn out from a day of entertaining young children on no sleep so we head home.

I leave the kids downstairs with him and go to my bedroom for the peace and headspace I've been desperate for. He comes in and gives a half arsed apology in approx 30 seconds. Later in the evening, I don't want to be around him but I know I have to challenge him and ask questions about what he did, so we go through the motions... he has no memory of anything from about midnight onwards. He cannot even remember waking up in his friend's house or talking to me that morning when he was meant to be looking after the kids.

He can't understand that this is making me question staying together - he can't believe I would think about throwing away our marriage over one night, but I say to him it's not just one night, he keeps doing this (getting too drunk and losing hours of time). I've made him sleep in the spare room for the time being. I can't bear to have him sleeping next to me but I don't want him to be absent from the family.

He says he will do something like arranging more counselling but he doesn't really know what to do He's had two lots of counselling for this before, first time at my insistence and only to appease me it transpires. Second time was because he had a big wake up call last summer which resulted in an injury during his "missing hours" that he can't remember. (He had loads of drinking injuries before we even met so that was nothing new but seemed to be the tipping point that saw him seek help.)

I think he just says all that to appease me; in reality I think he'd prefer that we just made up and moved on from it whenever it happens. Unlike me, he enjoys being drunk and can't/won't stop himself. I love wine but hate getting beyond tipsy. He thinks I should lay off him because he never mentions anything when I get drunk (he was not able to tell me of any time that I had stayed out all night, injured myself, wet the bed, forgotten how to find my way home, etc - it doesn't happen - so I don't know why he's trying to excuse his behaviour just because I'm not tee total). He always tries to make me look like the unreasonable one, and nobody else's wife kicks up such a fuss...

These binge drinking episodes used to have a catastrophic effect on me (long history of depression and anxiety, and this would cause me a massive setback). The impact is not as great on me now - my husband thinks that's a good thing, I worry that it's a sign I don't care about our marriage as much as I used to.

I don't want to end our marriage. We're great together the rest of the time and I want him to be here and be parenting along with me.

Does every couple have their version of this, their "thing" that keeps raising its head occasionally and causing problems?

Is there an acceptable level of this kind of crap that everyone puts up with?

Where do I go from here?

(Sorry for such a very long post.)

[Lilifer]

OP I really sympathise, I have a husband like this, though without the all nighters, but whilst he rarely drinks at home, when he does go out he sometimes does not make it home till 3 or 4am totally blind drunk and unable to turn the key in the door to get in. He goes through periods of a few months where it doesn't happen, though in my opinon he always drinks a bit more and a bit faster than everyone else when we are in company.
It's the fact that he is now 47 and I have realised this will never really change and fundamentally the hope that it will has finally died along with my respect and goodwill and I just know deep down it is a question of when not if, I leave him.
We have kids and it is not as if he is drinking around them or around the home. He has his own business and his drinking has not affected it so he has been insulated from the affects of his binges in that no one notices if he misses a morning here or there from work as he has plenty of staff to run things.
Yes other couples have other challenges and I don't know what makes them tick or what makes them able to put up with shitty stuff but there is something (for me, and I can only speak for myself) soul destroying in seeing a grown man, your partner and the person you share your life with abuse himself with alcohol, for me it really really is tue ultimate turn off, It has killed my affection and regard for him, maybe that makes me a horrible person but I cannot help it.
I also identify with the horrific anxiety and depression it has caused me over the years which perhaps also have eroded the love between us. His behaviour has left me with long term anxiety and i associate him with feeling worried, anxious, let down , lied to and deceived, and it's just ruined everything between us.
Maybe there are tougher women who can live with this behaviour and still love their husbands , but I'm not one of them and I'm not going to feel guilty for that anymore.

[sarahnova69]

I also totally totally disagree with Kanewrench. You did nothing wrong in writing that letter - you told him how you felt and how his drinking was affecting you. Your only 'mistake', if you want to call it that, was not then forcing the issue in a face-to-face conversation, and letting him sweep it all under the rug.

Others will disagree but I stand by these statements: 1) he is an alcoholic 2) I would leave him for this. Addiction isn't defined by frequency, but by dependence, whether psychological or physical, and its effect on your life. Your husband can't or won't stop binging, and it is badly affecting his wife, his marriage, and his children. He can be an alcoholic even with months between his binges. That said, NHS services will not help you much, because they are geared to daily heavy drinkers.

It's for you to decide if you can live this way for the rest of your life, knowing that the next binge will always hang over you. Are you happy to feel this way for the next five years? Ten?

And yes, I would say all couples have their issues that persist and recur. But they should be on the level of 'pick up your bloody socks'/'I am NOT phoning your mother again', not this. I note that I absolutely can't imagine many men considering this behaviour in their wives to be 'blowing off steam' and to be expected/excused.

[Myusernameismyusername]

Sounds like he is actually finding new drinking circles because he's even too OTT for the previous ones!
My worst dread is having 'that' friend who needs cleaning up every single time and babysitting to stop them going off the rails. It probably won't last long with this recent lot if he makes a fool of himself each time.
He must be ashamed of himself but doesn't want to admit to it

[WhyDidTheChicken]

Myusername he's sporty so that lets off steam and he certainly doesn't have any problem switching off after work, even though it is stressful and high pressure at times. We'll usually chat about it over dinner, and then it's relaxing time.

Million I know who he was out with insomuch as it's guys he plays sport with every week and I met a bunch of them at a birthday party once. But I don't know them well enough to have their contact details or be FB friends with them. His long standing friends are great people, but he always used to be happy to be a figure of fun when out drinking, and that was fun for them too. I think more recently though they're less tolerant to it. The incident last summer was when he was with them - away in an unfamiliar city - he was an absolute mess, so they sent him back to the hotel and carried on with their night. He didn't make it back to the hotel that night. Turned up the next morning covered in his own blood with no knowledge of where he'd been or what had happened. He came home slightly earlier than planned, that was when I realised that I was starting not to care, I just thought he looked like an idiot. He had scars for months. That's when he went and got help, straight after that weekend.

[Myusernameismyusername]

I agree that with age those things do help and it helped me. I was a right binger and never worried about any consequences. Luckily for me I now feel pretty disgusting with most types of alcohol even if I am actually drinking it at the time and I am more aware of losing a whole day to being hungover but more importantly I would be promiscuous when drunk (as was unhappy) and now my whole mindset has changed because I don't want to be that way anymore, have that kind of reputation. I now have a professional job but there is no drinking culture and most of my friends have kids and other responsibility. Also it was a terrible financial drain

[StarDiamonds]

My username Work colleagues who were the biggest push for "a few drinks" have had another baby/got divorced (so have to pick up kids)/moved house to a bit further away. There was a bit of a pack mentality going on previously, where they all egged each other on to pull a fast one on "the wife", I think.

Also, I have drip-dripped (and news reports bear out) the number of attacks on drunk people, people choking on vomit whilst drunk and asleep, etc. DH wanted to see it as just a bit of fun and I have no problem with drinks, going out, blowing off steam etc, but I know there's a subtle difference between an impromptu drinks that carry on a bit, and an all-out blow out the likes of which should be few and far between instead of every few weeks.

[Millionreasons]

I would be very upset if my h drank to the extent that he passed out, injured himself and couldn't account for several hours of the evening. It's just so irresponsible when he has a family.

A man in my area recently went missing after a night out, was seen on CCTV stumbling home and found in the river several days later.

I think your husband's drinking is very extreme. I would also not approve of not knowing who he is going out with. That sounds odd to me. Is he just looking for people to drink with? At least with long standing friends you both know, you would hope they would keep an eye on him.

[Myusernameismyusername]

Has your DH found other ways to blow off the steam? I think thsfs important

[StarDiamonds]

I hear you My DH does this sort of thing too, albeit far more infrequently these days. His excuse is that he is a high achiever (this is true) so he "deserves" to blow off some steam now and then. He has gradually got better so he doesn't do it as frequently and he doesn't stay out quite as late, but it took years to get him to see it wasn't fair to text at 5.30pm on a Friday and say "few drinks, back later" and then turn up (very very drunk) at 4/5am)...

A bit busy atm but will add more later. I know how you feel!

[VenusRising]

Your DH is an alcoholic. Ring al anon and get your divorce papers together.

He has to stop drinking completly and for the rest of his life.

He needs weekly AA meetings and a total commitment to a new way of life.

I'd leave him if he doesn't go to AA and stay sober.

Sorry.

[WhyDidTheChicken]

Sorry I keep x-posting and new posts appear while I'm writing...

[WhyDidTheChicken]

I didn't say in the letter that I regretted meeting him and marrying him etc - just that I'd questioned myself and him at all those stages whether he would change his drinking pattern, and each time I thought the move towards more responsibility would make him change, so I ploughed on with the wedding and kids in the belief it would get better. It does speak about the good things too, and my confusion about what to do because much of it is so good and yet this drinking is a disaster for me... and it speaks of the acceptance that I know one day it'll be too much for me to bear, and I don't know when that'll be.

[Myusernameismyusername]

I also disagree with OP being wrong with the sentiment of the letter if it didn't have any effect on him anyway, seeing how deeply this was affecting his family and doing nothing to try put it right.
He knows what he has to throw away - he lives with it every single day. Do you have to point out to a someone who is making a mess of their life what they could have, when they already have it?

[adora1]

Totally disagree with Kanewrech, the OP did that as a last resort, this is not anything new, the OPs OH has been putting her through this crap their whole married life together, in fact when she wrote that letter back then she was at the end of her tether, for instance:
These binge drinking episodes used to have a catastrophic effect on me (long history of depression and anxiety, and this would cause me a massive setback). The impact is not as great on me now - my husband thinks that's a good thing, I worry that it's a sign I don't care about our marriage as much as I used to.

So it's ok for him to put her and the kids through hell but she can't bring up a letter than she wrote to him about years ago - I think the letter was good OP, it may make him wake up to stop being an arsehole and putting alcohol and friends before his own family.

It's not just the staying out all night, it's the next day or two when he is also suffering a come down.

[Kanewreck]

It seemed more like a break up letter. Telling him you basically regret meeting him, marrying him, having children with him. These sentiments are different to what you have written here. Where you say there are many great aspects to your relationship. I just think that must have been sole destroying for him to read. Maybe he would have responded better if you had listed the good things in the relationship and why it would be silly throw all that away.
Anyone, with an ounce of self respect would struggle to stay in a relationship with someone that had written those regrets you had mentioned.

[adora1]

Turning a blind eye - putting up with crap then OP and pretend what he is doing is normal.

[WhyDidTheChicken]

And honestly, truth be told, if I'd found out the extent of his drinking problem before we lived together, and if I'd felt strong enough to end it then, yes, I probably would have. Probably should have. We'd have had no ties to each other and I'd have been young enough to meet someone else and (maybe) have a family with them. But that didn't happen, we have a whole life together now, and it's mostly a good one. I've had lots and lots of happiness and amazing children, so I can no longer just walk away from a relationship without being sure that such an action is warranted.

[WhyDidTheChicken]

Was I too harsh with the letter?
I thought I'd been making it too easy for him all this time just by putting up with it and "letting" it continue. He complained that I don't exactly help him (to feel less bad about it all etc) and I said I'm not here to make him feel better about what he's done, he should feel bad.
Maybe I should just be turning a blind eye... I don't know

[Kanewreck]

Chicken, I think once you have sent that letter, then the relationship was pretty much over. How can you say all that and still be together?
I think despite your concerns and his behavior that letter was too harsh.

[WhyDidTheChicken]

Kane I believe I emailed it to him at the time, and I sent it again at the weekend. I know he read it while sober, but nothing has been said about it.

[WhyDidTheChicken]

Attila I've clicked through to the AA link you gave me so I can come back to that later when I've time to read it. I think it's the 'higher power' thing that doesn't sit right with me - I always like to think that we have control and accountability for ourselves, what happens in life is down to our decisions and actions rather than fate or luck.

Also you mentioned that I'm his provoker - I don't know what that means in this context but I'll look it up and have a look at the things you've suggested.

On the subject of who knows... very few people. My own parents used to give me a lot of support on the other end of the phone (they're hundreds of miles away) but I don't bother them with it any more as they're getting older and I feel like we're in that transitionary period between your parents looking after you and you looking after your parents... I reached out to my husband's mum years ago (or tried to). She completely dismissed it and denied that he had a problem. She's very protective of him and won't hear anything said against him. However, he told her last year that he had this problem and that he was seeking help. After that, she did approach me and say sorry because I had asked for help before and she'd ignored it. I will be seeing her tomorrow as it happens, so perhaps I'll speak to her then. I don't speak to anyone else about it. I don't want to be the subject of pity or gossip but it's so hard trying to deal with and work out what to do on my own.

[Kanewreck]

Chicken, did you just write that letter, as something for yourself or did you give it to him?

[adora1]

He always tries to make me look like the unreasonable one, and nobody else's wife kicks up such a fuss...

Well he would say that OP, I don't know any woman who wouldn't be as mad as hell if her partner never came home all night, and he leaves you with no contact so you are worried all night long - nice.

These binge drinking episodes used to have a catastrophic effect on me (long history of depression and anxiety, and this would cause me a massive setback). The impact is not as great on me now - my husband thinks that's a good thing, I worry that it's a sign I don't care about our marriage as much as I used to.

And therein lies your problem, he used to be so much worse so now, hey, you should be able to handle it, it's not that often - it's his whole overall attitude that stinks and his complete disrespect for you and the family - even once a year, this is ruining a marriage.

And again, what the hell is he doing from 7.30pm until 9am the next again day! That's drinking for 14 hours.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

"Oh and yes there's a family history of alcohol issues on his side. Nothing on mine, hence why I've been trying to put my foot down and not accept this as normal family life. I don't want our kids growing up with it".

Sorry to write this but they are already growing up with it. They are also all too clearly seeing your reactions to it. Was not all that surprised either to see that there are alcohol issues on his side of the family; alcoholism can be learnt

What you have also tried has not and will not work out either. I cannot personally see your marriage lasting many more years at this rate because one day you will wake up and decide that you have finally had enough.

How many people in your own social circle know about his binges; not many I daresay. This type of stuff thrives on secrecy and you need to start opening up far more as to how his behaviours are affecting you. He basically cannot control himself at all around alcohol and will drink to the point of passing out. His friends have taken photos of him. And some of his friends are more likely than not to have alcohol problems themselves. His non alcoholic friends feel embarrassed for you.

What other injuries has he himself sustained over the years?.

Your mistake here was marrying him in the hope that he would change; he is not going to change for you or anyone else. Infact this man could well go onto lose everything around him and he could still choose to drink afterwards.

You are there for your children, he is not because his primary relationship is with drink. He is hearing only white noise from you and he does not want to address his drink problem. Why should he when you are also carrying this for him?. You are simply playing out the usual roles associated with such spouses; that of enabler and provoker (you never forget any of what has happened).

Painful as it is I would also read the 3 act play that is alcoholism. Act 2 is pertinent particularly to you and your part in all this.

You have a choice re this man Chicken, your children do not. And if anyone leaves your home Chicken it will be him, not you and your children. You are not as powerless as you think you are.

[NotTheFordType]

Oh and yes there's a family history of alcohol issues on his side. Nothing on mine, hence why I've been trying to put my foot down and not accept this as normal family life. I don't want our kids growing up with it.

But they already are growing up with it :(

He gets fed up of the questions, there's eye rolling and heavy sighs (think: teenager).

This is the worst thing. He doesn't even accept that his behaviour is bad. He's seriously minimising what he's doing and how that's affecting you and the DC. And I don't just mean that he physically isn't there and therefore you aren't able to do the things you'd planned: I mean your DC are growing up to realise that their father is unreliable, that it's normal for men to get so drunk they don't come home, have accidents, wet themselves, etc.

His primary relationship is with alcohol. You and the DC are a lower priority in his mind.