Men not wanting children but partner does

[SuperFlyHigh]

I wanted to ask a question on behalf of 2 close friends of mine who don't know each other.

S has lived with her boyfriend for past 4-5 years, he has a 10 year old son and they're engaged. She has always wanted children but he has said no. She's now 44 and he would not even consider her adopting. She owns her own flat and runs her own business.

T has been with her boyfriend for a year and they moved in together 6 months ago. Again, she would like children but he says no. She will be 40 this December. She owns her own flat which is rented out.

They both seemed to think it was too late to meet someone else (maybe in S' case) to have children with. So are sticking with the relationship for now childless.

I myself am dating but childless and happy to be so.

I just do not get sometimes why some men are so belligerent about not having children when their partner would like them.

Then they should have had this conversation before getting so involved. I don't see how this is complicated

If it is okay for the women to not mention about wanting children at the beginning of the relationship, then why should the men have to say that they don't want them at the start of the relationship?

Your tone comes across as if you think these men are either hostile (in that they are being unreasonable by denying a woman's right to have a child) or deceitful. They are neither.

Both men have been honest. Both women decided of their own free will to stay with these men so need to accept the situation or move on.

OP, would you like to have a child yourself?

Is it maybe your own wishes and thoughts of your own future that are getting caught up in your analysis of your friends' situations?

There is nothing wrong with wanting a child you know. But if you do want one then you have to crack on and make it happen. Being passive isn't going to work (as your friends have found).

Kidnapped actually right now, no I've passed the having a child stage thanks!

I was just curious as to what other MNers think that's all. And am bored on a Sunday.

You are reading way too much into my wishes!

Myusername i totally get they should have had this convo before getting so involved!

Ok I'll give you another snippet (drip feed if you will) here, T has been unemployed (her own choice) since June, she left her job and only recently has been job hunting. She's been helping to look after her young nieces and nephews. She mentioned that where she lives (a Kent suburb) there are lots of mums with young children in the park and that made her kind of broody. She said she didn't realise it would make her feel so broody. Of course time on her hands doesn't help either.

The onus is on women to state at the start of a relationship if they want children, because we have finite fertility, unless there is invasive and costly medical procedures. And surely if it's something that's non-negotiable for you in a relationship, then it's on you to make it clear.

I also don't understand your statement "these women quite rightly want... which is a child"
No. There is no quite rightly about it. Not all women want children. It's not a right. If they wanted children, it's on them to make it clear. Not sit around and hope it will come up, then moan when they think they've run out of time.

madginger actually you're right there, not all women quite rightly want a child but the vast majority (bar a few) have wanted children.

I agree with what you say they should have made this clear at the start of the relationship. One woman (S) I actually haven't seen properly for years as we were at school together and only reconnected about 4 years ago. The other woman (T) I see occasionally - not a very close friend but I still see her from time to time. So although they're close on paper they're not that close as don't see them a huge amount (distance with S too). Should have amended OP to say that.

It's always better to be upfront when first starting dating. Most people I know take that stance. Did these women perhaps actually know or guess that the men weren't keen or didn't want but hoped they'd change their mind?

I feel for them but obviously this isn't a deal breaker or they'd be moving on rather than accepting. It is far better to default to wishes of the person who doesn't want kids, one of the main reasons being that there are many lackluster parent's who walk away when they did plan for dc and while these men could possibly be coerced 'convinced' they could end up reluctant parents and reject the child. That is an awful position to put a child in, they should be wanted not reluctantly or half heartedly accepted or rejected.

Are they doing the right thing staying with a man who doesn't want DC when they quite clearly do? no

Will they regret it? yes

Maybe I'm missing something, but it's simple to me

If you want children, you discuss this early on in a relationship, and if your partner doesn't then you decide whether to move on and find someone else or stay with them and accept that means not having children.

You say "S is very keen to have children"....well, yes, maybe she is - but she's 44 apparently and the chance of conception at this age is around 5%. She has always wanted children, you say - yet at 40 she hooked up with a man who didn't want any more. Realistically if she is/was desperately keen to have a child she should have been a bit more pro-active a bit earlier in life, to be frank. Sometimes we have to accept that we can't have the things we want rather than finding someone to blame. Presumably S (and T) don't actually know if they are able to have a child, even if their partners wanted one. It's sad, but a bit late to be crying over spilt milk. I don't think their partners can be blamed for not wanting a child - or to be accused of being the person who is denying them one. S & T are adults and have made their own choices in life.

This is a weird thread
I didn't understand why you'd posted / what you were asking until you said you were bored on a Sunday afternoon.
You're passing your time basically gossiping about 2 women you don't know that wel, making lots of assumptions. No, having nieces and nephews doesn't therefore make you want your own

If they wanted children they should have made sure to only develop relationships with men who said the same.

No, the men shouldn't agree just to be nice. Fucking hell, children aren't cushion cover when you might say "oh OK, if you like"!

I don't understand why women who want children stay in relationships with men who don't hoping that they'll change their minds, or because they think "he'll make an amazing dad" or whatever.

Why don't they believe what the men say in the first place?

Why do people get shirty with/about the man saying that he's immature (on other threads) or 'belligerent'?

I have 2 children. There is absolutely nothing and no one that could persuade me to have any more. Even if I met a man who had none. That is not me being selfish or belligerent. That's just me being honest and knowing what I want and not being caught up in some ridiculous notion of a child always being a blessing 'n' shit. I would not come round to the idea and I would not "love it once it was born".

I suppose men who don't want [any more] children must feel similarly.

I don't get the issue, tbh.

I absolutely would not have another baby especially not for love

cabrinha they've told me they both wanted kids! With these men and generally!

Not gossiping just gaining opinions, jeez wish I'd never asked obviously people are uber sensitive!

I had a similar situation with a friend. Her husband had a child by his first wife .
They had discussed children before the marriage and he had replied in a way that suggested that he was open to the idea in a few years time.
She had started to try to discuss with him the possibility of trying for a baby when he shut the conversation down. Told her he didn't want anymore children and if she got pregnant he would leave her. When she spoke to me she was at a crossroads.
I pointed out that if she got pregnant then he would either leave, in which case she had her baby. Or if she didn't get pregnant then in all likelihood she would grow to resent him and the marriage would break down anyway. Or the marriage survives for a few years then he goes off with someone else with whom he might decide to have children, then how would she feel then.
She did get pregnant and after an initial few tense months things settled and they are still together today.
I think because she was prepared to walk away things worked out.

I should add my friend was a few years older than her dh and was also the higher wage earner.

That is actually horrific. I cannot believe that donee women think it is ok to behave like that.

It's ok to be prepared for him to leave, because you get your baby. It sickens me when I hear stories of women "accidentally" falling pregnant, or deliberately manipulating men just so they can have a baby.

And you wonder why some men think that women are manipulative, selfish and only out for what they want?

That's an awful way for your friend to behave Olivers. She basically went stuff him I'll get what I want regardless

It doesn't matter how it worked out in the end, she was basically prepared to risk the child being rejected by their parent and the child having to live with the consequences of that for the rest of their life. That's pretty low.

Sounds like these women are just saying things but aren't really that bothered. At 40 and 44, they haven't really got time to faff around if they are desperate for a baby. The partners have said no. They are well within their rights to say no. The reason the men are ' belligerent' about not having a child is because they don't want an 18 year + responsibility. The stringers along are despicable and selfish, but men who day 'I don't want a child ever' just means they have made a choice about their own lives and women have to make a choice about theirs. They have two choices. Stay and accept they left it too late, or leave. Resentment will kill the relationship anyway, and there is always the small chance they may meet someone else and manage to have a last chance saloon baby.

I just do not get sometimes why some men are so belligerent about not having children when their partner would like them. Seriously?

Someone not wanting a child is not being belligerent. They know what they want from life, and aren't going to compromise. As a child who wasn't wanted, I for one am glad to see people not bringing children into the world when they don't want them.

Every child has a right to be wanted.

Are they doing the right thing staying with a man who doesn't want DC when they quite clearly do? Will they regret it? Well, that is a completely different question. It is their right to do what they see fit, but they do need to be careful that they don't start to resent them.

I do find it odd that a parent who loves their existing child wants to deprive their partner of that experience when they profess to love them. It is nothing to do with love. Bringing a child into this world is a huge commitment. If someone doesn't want to do that (or do it more than once/twice etc) they don't have to..not even for "love"

If it would make her happy? Or is it all about his happiness and what he wants? OK, this is another human being you are talking about, not a car, or a house, or a diamond ring. NO, he should NOT have a child "to make her happy" a child isn't a toy. And of course this is about what he wants too.

I should add my friend was a few years older than her dh and was also the higher wage earner. Why does that matter? She tricked her husband into having a child, that's horrible.

I don't think anyone should ever have a child if they don't want one.

However, if I wanted a child & my husband didn't I would have left. Not an ultimatum, simply it would have been the wrong relationship for me.

I have kids as the result of some a slightly experimental treatment. Before that, I dealt with the prospect of never having children & I know that I would have had a happy life BUT it would have been a very different life. And I could not have gone through the grieving process for that with a partner who wasn't sad about that and who potentially wouldn't want to know about my grief. I certainly couldn't have handled the reminder of what I'd lost when he potentially had grandchildren.