My selfish brother and SIL...long - sorry but need to rant.

[Ilovemyboy]

My brother and SIL have 2 children who I absolutely adore and have always been really close to. My bro knows that I love them and miss them like mad since I moved down to London from the NW a couple of years ago.

I got pregnant in March last year and made regular trips up north to see family throughout the course of my pregnancy. I was desperate to see my little niece and nephew but my bro and SIL always had some crap excuse as to why they couldn't meet up like 'we have to go to town to get 'niece' some shoes' like it was really important and they couldn't take an hour to come and see me. (they live 10mins from my mums).

Anyway, I didn't see them all the way through my pregnancy and DS was born in Nov. I texted them with a pic of him the day he was born and got a 'Congratulations' text back but that was it. No phone call to see how I was or anything. They didn't take into consideration that I had no family around me to help me and a few kind words from them would have been a nice gesture. Then I moved house 2 weeks after DS was born and they still didn't bother to ring to see if everything was okay.

I took this on the chin and looked forward to seeing them all at Christmas.

I stayed at my mums from 23rd to 27th of Dec so ample time for them to come and see their new and first nephew and their children's first cousin and they didn't show up. I texted SIL on 26th to ask when they were coming and she said that they had been hectic and hadn't had time to come. My mum was upset that she hadn't seen her grandchildren over Christmas. She had asked my bro if she could go to see them on Christmas day and he told her that she couldn't as the house was a mess from them having their loft conversion a few weeks previous. When my mum saw my bro after Christmas, she asked if they had had a nice Christmas and they said it had been quiet and they hadn't been through the door. So much for it being hectic.

I was really upset that they hadn't made an effort. My mum said she is keeping my niece and nephew updated with news and pics of DS and they seem really excited to meet him.

So...we are going up north again this weekend and guess what?? They are too busy to see us and their nephew. Bro is going watching football Saturday, SIL is going bridesmaids dress shopping for niece and Sunday, nephew plays rugby. How is that more important than seeing my DS for the first time when I am making the effort to spend 5-6 hours in a car to see them?

So I won't be seeing my niece and nephew again then.

I am feeling really peed off and am wondering if I have done something to upset them. I can't confront my bro as he has the potential to be a bit of a nob and I don't want to give them an excuse not to speak to me again.

I don't know what to do anymore...just have to get used to the idea that I'm not part of my niece and nephew's lives anymore.

Sorry for going on. Feeling proper sorry for myself

Ah but it is not just you is it, they are avoiding your Mum as well. Does your SIL have a chip on her shoulder about something?

aw hun - that is very sad and sounds like you have done nothing wrong at all. I think you should ask your brother what is going on. Your post is very reasonable so i think you should set it out just the same to him. It isn;t on and you deserve and explanation for some very hurtful behaviour.

Thanks for replying.

My bro and my mum's relationship has been deteriorating for the past few years due to the fact that my bro has somehow got it through his head that he is the black sheep and gets left out of everything - he is insecure. My bro used to dote on my mum - proper little mummy's boy he was. Looking back I can see that it stems from about 3 yrs ago when bro had affair and bro and SIL's relationship was a mess. My mum voiced her concerns about the kids to him and I think seeing my mum being so upset and concerned he could see that he had disappointed her. He told her to butt out and it hasn't been the same since. He said recently that he felt he wasn't welcome in my mum's house although my mum hasn't been doing anything different apparently. I told mum to sit down and chat with him about it...to make the first move and let him know that he was welcome whatever the situation. I don't know if she has or not. He is such a soft arse.

But what has this got to do with me? I have always had a relatively good relationship with my bro considering he is 7yrs older than me and have never got involved in his issues. I thought I had a good relationship with SIL. Bro and SIL have been together since I was 11 so have known her most of my life and I am quite fond of her and see her as a 'real' sister. Regards SIL casting us out of their family, my bro definitely rules the roost in their house and he comes and goes and does as he pleases. She has been shat on by him so many times. She is like his little lapdog and would never tell him that he couldn't do something.

So I don't think it is just her. Part of me wants there to be something wrong...for them to have a problem with me so it can be fixed. It is getting to the stage now though where I think that they are both so selfish and ignorant that they can't come out of their little bubble for long enough to think about somebody else for a change. And this type of selfish behaviour cannot be changed. They are just arseholes.

Get this...even though I have known SIL since I was 11, see her as a sister etc etc, she signed DS' Christmas card from Uncle 'BIL' and SIL. So she doesn't even consider herself to be his Aunty.

perhaps their relationship is really really bad at the minute and they are trying to hide it? Perhaps you need to ring your SIL and ask if she would make some time to meet up. Try to be kind but honest - that you miss them all and really want to see them. I really don't know what else you can do but at least then you know you have tried. HTH

It definitely sounds like there is something going on somewhere that you are not aware of. I would do either one of the following:

just turn up at their house unannounced while you are up at the weekend.

or
try and contact either your brother or SIL (whichever you think appropriate) and ask them what is going on.

stab in the dark here might be up the wrong tree, but is it perhaps they don't like the fact you now have a DC and their DC's are no longer the centre/only DGC's iycwim?

I would ring up and ask specifically to meet up, say even if it;s just for an our as you really want your new baby to meet it's aunt and uncle.
If they make loads of excuses then I would ask why? Did they send a present over/new baby card or anything?

Thanks for all your replies.

I texted SIL yesterday asking to meet up. My mum had told them prior to this that I was there for the weekend. SIL replied with something like 'Taking niece for bridesmaid dress but will sort something out.' I texted back asking whether she could spare an hour and she texted 'Will text you later and let you know' and she didn't text me.

I called my mum's today and they were there. Mum put SIL on the phone who said that she was out all day shopping on Saturday and was going out to some do in the evening so couldn't see me then. Then they are going watching my nephew playing rugby Sunday morning so can't see us then and we are coming home in the afternoon. So if I turned up they wouldn't be there.

I mean, why aren't they the ones vying for my time? If they were coming down to London and I had some insignificant plan such as shopping FFS, the plans would be dropped and I would be seeing them instead.

I don't know whether to call. As I said, my bro is a bit of an arsehole and would get all defensive at the first sign of any awkwardness. Then if I said something to SIL, she would probably whinge about me to my bro who would then maybe fall out with me.

Are they jealous of DS? Well my mum says she has spoken about this to several of her friends and they have said the same thing. My nephew is 9 so it has always been about them and their kids for 9 years and suddenly this has changed.

I can't help this though and my mum has been as excited about their kids as she has about mine and still is. When my nephew was born, my mum, my sister and me used to fight over whose turn it was to hold him. Their kids are loved so much by us all. Nothing has changed.

As for presents, they bought DS a 'New Baby' card which they didn't bother sending. We got it from my mums at Christmas when DS was a month old. They did get him some lovely (and expensive) Christmas presents though so it is not as if they didn't make an effort there although seeing him would have been a better Christmas present.

I am really upset. I want my DS to be part of his cousin's lives and for them all to have a special bond because I love them so much. As it is, they have never even seen each other.

I have been up north about 8-9 times since I was pregnant and I haven't seen them once. I haven't seen the kids since the Christmas before last.

Sounds like sil is jealous. Why dont you just ask her straight out what her problem is? Were you's close b4?

We were close like sisters. I was definitely closer to her than I was to my brother. Has all gone downhill since I have been pregnant.

Maybe she is jealous then. Still this is no reason to keep me from my niece and nephew and them from meeting their cousin.

I am scared of confronting them though as I don't want to turn this into a fight (which it will end up doing with my bro) and to give them even more of an excuse not to bother with me.

I didn't even consider that this would be an issue with them. I was worried about my real sister's reaction to my pregnancy and my DS as she has had a stillbirth and 2 miscarriages and doesn't have any kids yet but she is the best Aunty ever.

Am crying now. They are ripping our family apart.

Oh please dont cry. Maybe you could send your niece & nephew a letter from your ds asking how they are. Are they old enough to reply? Sending you big

This is really sad for you. I would be very upset in your position. And they are still not being honest with you are they? It does sound like jealousy in some form or other. Maybe they have had issues (trying for more children?, a miscarriage?) that you don't know about.

Could you ask to go along to watch your nephew playing rugby? Or do you not want to push it?

I think the only approach is the direct approach. either call and ask outright what the hell is going on, or send an email/letter with words to the effect of:

"I have been trying to work out what's going on. I haven't seen you or the kids since I fell pregnant with

could they be trying for another child? maybe they are having problems conceiving. (not trying to excuse them in any way)

could be they dont want 'competition' in the kid dept.

or maybe you 'offended' - some people get the huff and just refuse to tell you why, its like they think the only proof that you care is if you can read their bloody mind!

you have no crystal ball so you will have to ask. what's the worst that could happen - they dont talk to you? you're not seeing them as it is!

or you could just show up at the nephews match and cheer from the sidelines. show up at the house, or the wedding shop. "i came to find you because i have missed you so much and wanted to spend time with you" go to where they are and they can't give the we are busy doing x excuse because you are doing it with them. then you'll see if they come up with anything else.

or you could send a text saying "i dont know why you are avoiding me and you dont seem to want me in your life, i don't know what i have done but i can take a hint. if you ever change your mind, you know where i am."

Thanks.

I decided to bite the bullet and have sent a text to both of them this morning saying;

'I'm upset I won't get to see the kids again. Haven't seen them in over a year. You don't seem to be making much of an effort to see DS. Have I done something to upset you?'

Haven't had anything back yet. Hopefully they will be discussing it between them and will be trying to come up with a suitable answer.

If my bro falls out with me then so be it. I don't see their kids anyway so it isn't as though I have anything to lose. As it as been said, my niece and nephew can make up their own minds if they want to see me when they are old enough. They know they will always be welcome at my house.

It's a bit late now as you have sent the text, but I was going to suggest that yuo ask where your nephew is going to be playing rugby and you could go along and support him.

I'm sure your nephew would love his aunty there as support - and you can also demonstrate that yuo are genuinely interested in waht they are doing.

one of my sils has always been difficult with me and her husband goes along with her. my dh fell out completely with them about a year ago because they would leave my son out when buying presents because he was my dh's stepson, and not a blood relative. i think she is very jealous, but don't know why exactly

anyway, what we do is see our nephews quite often because my mil brings them around or we visit her house. we also buy them presents which are accepted.

we have just had to accept that they don't want to know us

I have spent the last 2 hours in tears. I am in a bit of a mess.

SIL texted me back with something along the lines of 'Bro is the one who is upset with you. He called you once and you were too tired to speak to him and once you said you couldn't be arsed to see the kids. Has been brewing for ages. Need to speak to bro'. She also mentioned about them having really busy lives...even though neither of them work weekends so it is always leisure time for them.

Yes he did ring me the once (the first time ever) and I was in bed. It was 9.30pm, I was about 10wks pg and had been at work all day. I explained this to him at the time and have called them since many a time and texted when I have been going up north. I did say ones that I couldn't be bothered going to see them. I got the train up on my own (so had no car) when it was the opening England game in the world cup and it was boiling hot. I texted and they were going into town to get niece and England shirt. They didn't offer to come to me but said I could go to them. I said I couldn't be bothered as I was 20 wks pg, it would have meant me walking 30mins to bus stop and getting bus and doing this all the way back again. In boiling hot weather. And they couldn't make the 10 min car journey from their house. And this was bloody months ago.

I know that me saying I couldn't bothered might have sounded like I was being a bit slack but I was still a bit peed off after we went up there for a weekend over Easter bank holiday. We were meant to be driving back on the Sunday but stayed until the Monday as we planned to meet up with them for some lunch. At the last minute (and I mean about an hour before we were due to meet up) bro tells me that they have tickets to the rugby and can't make it leaving us to sit for 7 hours in Bank Holiday traffic. I was really pissed off.

So I replied with 'I couldn't be bothered because I was 20wks pg and I would have had to walk to bus stn to get a bus to [their town] and back in boiling hot weather. I didn't have a car as I got the train on my own. Your excuse was that you were going to get niece an England shirt but you couldn't nip to see me on the way? We are busy too but still manage to make 5hr trips up north every couple of months with a 10 wk old baby'.

SIL then asks me to ring bro to talk to him as she always feels like she is the one getting the sh!t.

So then bro rings me up. SIL has obviously been on the phone to him and he said something along the lines of...

'Who the fvck do you think you are talking to you? [repeats this about 6 times]. You and my mum having your little chats. You are nothing but a selfish little bitch, it's all about you you you. [repeats this about 6 times]. You are a stuck up little cow. Don't bother ringing us again'.

I don't think I had chance to say anything of worth to him before he put the phone down as I was so shocked. I can't remember what I said. Just tried to interrupt his abuse I think.

By this time I was in floods with shock.

I texted him with 'I love your kids and you know I would do anything for them. I text you everytime I come up north and there is always an excuse to avoid me. All because I was too tired to speak to you once. You are the selfish one and I can't help being close to my mum. She is my best friend'.

I also texted 'You also need to stop being so insecure around mum. She loves you. This is ripping the family apart'.

So after much crying, I ring SIL who is all 'I am fed up with being the one to get the sh!t' and I explained that I had texted bro too and he didn't and never gets back to me when I do text. She replied so I responded to her. I didn't know whether bro had a phone or not. We basically had it out on the phone. She says that bro feels left out off everything and nobody tells him anything and there are problems with mum too. I said he should stop feeling so insecure as nobody bothers with me either...it is only really my mum that rings every so often (I ring her daily) and even my sister I'm not that close to anymore.

I said that mum is upset because he has distanced himself away from her and she won't say anything because she is scared he will fly off the handle and won't let her see the kids and SIL said 'oh don't be silly' She also dismissed his behavoiur on the phone to me as 'he is just angry' and to try to ring him when he has calmed down. I am sh!tting myself. I don't want have to put myself up to ringing that nasty b@stard but I know I will have to. He still speaks to me like I am 14 and he cannot do that anymore. (He was 21 when I was 14 - I fvcking hated him.) SIL said that they are never involved in family bbqs and whatever and I said that I'm not either but what has this got to do with me? We agreed that mum and bro need to talk.

I started crying to SIL and asked how could I be selfish when I didn't know anything was wrong and I have been trying in vain to meet up with them. I mentioned Easter incident and fact that no one bothered to ring when I had DS, when I moved house and at Christmas. SIL maintains that she didn't know I was up north on 23rd Dec as she would have come down. I said to her that I was on the phone to mum when she was in the background and mum told SIL dates I was there and I heard SIL say 'okay'. She argued that she didn't (she did - mum and dad back me up on this) so I said 'fine - there was obviously a mix up and I don't want to argue about this one particular incident' She said she had plans Christmas Eve (ice-skating) and was working Boxing Night so couldn't come down to see us. How is ice-skating more important than seeing my DS for the first time? I didn't say this but her priorities are obviously different to mine so I can't really argue about that.

SIL argued bro's side then when I stuck up for myself, she was all 'speak to bro. I feel like you are getting on at me'.

I even said to her 'I am speaking to you because I need you to know that I am not what bro thinks of me. I feel like you are distancing yourself away from me when we have known each other since I was 11 and you are like a sister to me.'

She has really distanced herself from me and isn't willing to help the situation by talking to bro. I am mega pissed-off about this as I have been there for her when bro has shat all over her - even telling her to leave him and get a council house when he left and stopped paying mortgage and they had bailiffs letters. If (or when) he does this again and if she ever moans to me I will say to her 'this isn't my business. Stop moaning to me about my brother and deal with it yourself'. I have been a mate to her and she has fvcked me off because everything is rosy with bro again.

I don't know why he called me stuck-up...probably because I escaped the town that we grew up in and am living a nice life down her. I dunno.

He is a first-class, grade A pr!ck and I really wish he wasn't my bro. I would tell them to p!ss off for good if it wasn't for the kids.

If you made it this far, well done. I have had to cancel the plumber from coming round this afternoon because I am in a mess.

Oh dear, what a mess. I think you should put your feelings down on paper, dont accuse anyone of anything and don't go over past events. Just say you want to be part of their lives and see the children and look forward.

This maybe easier than tackling an angry and what sounds like a rather jealous and childlike brother on the phone(but you don't have to say either of these things or the situation will worsen).

You need some sticking plasters not a rake to bring up old stuff.

You don't mention a DH in all of this, do you have a partner?

To me your brother sounds like a bully who the rest of the family are unwilling to challenge in case he loses it. Perhaps you could explain to him that childish rants are boring and unpleasant and it is not suprising that he feels excluded if he behaves in an unapproachable manner and is storing up paranoid grudges.

I would walk away. I know that's easier said than done, but you are not at fault here, they are. And if they can't see that, then I fear there's little chance they will in the future.

I know it upsets you that they have not seen your ds, but ask yourself, do you really think that your ds will benefit from having a relationship with such selfish, self-centred relativeS? ME THINKS NOT SORRY.

Your brother sounds like a total mess, and not at all interested in looking at both sides of this discussion, or doing anything constructive with it.

The thing is, you can't change him. What you have to work out is, how can you see your niece and newphew and is the price worth paying.

(i.e. it might be having to tell your brother its all your fault, and have him still cancel everything at the last minute, and you not see them anyway)

Unfortunatly it sounds at the moment like he is taking any excuse to say the family is out to get him and I don't know that you will be able to convince him otherwise.

The best of luck with this, family discord is horrible, especially when you feel it should be easy to sort it out.

I have DP who has been let down by them too and thinks as much of them as I do.

I don't know whether I will ring him yet. Maybe next week.

I called dad and he agrees with me and has tried to calm me down. He thinks bro is an arse and there is no reasoning with him. Waiting for mum to come home from work to warn her that bro may go round and have it out with her over stuff that I have said about them.

I feel so sorry for her.

At least I am down here and don't have to listen to his crap face-to-face.