DH lost his job because of drink

[lemonormelon]

DH didn't go to work today because he got drunk last night. Although he contacted them to make an excuse for his absence his employer has terminated his temporary contract. I'm unsurprised as it's his third absence in the six weeks he's been employed there.
I'm well aware that he has a problem with alcohol but last night he told me the extent of it. He admitted to drinking secretly every day recently, though never at work or before driving. I had no idea as he's always been a binge drinker and he hadn't appeared drunk.
He said he wants to get help to stop drinking. I told him I would be there for him and support him in his efforts to get control of his life again. However, I have previously warned him that if he lost his job because of his drinking then he would have to go.

What should I do now? Be supportive if he really wants to stop? Or stay true to my word and ask him to go? Either option could make his problem worse, but could also be what he needs to get better. I really don't know what is best for him and our family.
Any advice would be appreciated.

[BlueFolly]

I don't think he believes your ultimatum.

[BlueFolly]

OP must keep the pressure up

That goes against all the advice that the OP can't cure this though.

[Prawnofthepatriarchy]

OP you might tell your DH about the yets. We use it in AA.

He's lost his job. That's bad enough.

But he isn't homeless yet.
He hasn't lost his family yet.
He hasn't been unable to get another job because of his drinking yet.
He hasn't wrecked his health yet..

You get the picture. We say "how many of these yets are you going to get through before you stop drinking?"

[lemonormelon]

I read the merry go round of denial? I could hardly believe the similarities to our situation! (thank you for the link and showing me that) It struck a real cord, I see now exactly how this 'play' goes. I googled the full version and there is a bit in that describing how the alcoholic blames the 'provoker' and may even accuse them of things such as cheating-I have had all that and more. The whole thing is so familiar, it's like a big wake up call. I am going to make a huge effort to stop playing my 'role' of provoker and try to break the cycle.

I'm very grateful to those who have offered advice from the alcoholic's point of view. I see how desperate DH must feel and I think it's reasonable to give him the chance to follow through on his commitment to attend AA with his friend.

This week will show what the future holds, and if the cycle can be broken. He's been pushing me already, texting to say he's been drinking while I'm at work (he hadn't), asking me to get beers 'for the football' when I'm at the shop. I know this is to get a reaction and give him the excuse he 'needs' to drink. He will get his final pay from the job he lost before the end of the week so that'll be the real test (he usually hits the pub or buys a lot of beer on payday)

[Prawnofthepatriarchy]

BlueFolly by advising OP to keep the pressure on I'm not saying she can cure him, only that knowing that she's not going to let things drift will focus his mind on doing something about it. He needs to register that this is really is an emergency.

I stopped drinking because my marriage was going to crash if I didn't. My DH didn't "cure" me or make me stop. That was all down to me. But I stopped because of how much I loved him, my DPs and my DBs. Once I was sober we went on to have DCs and a very happy marriage.

If OP's husband gets - and stays - sober there is so much joy ahead for both of them. It's a wonderful life. My sobriety is the rock everything else of value in my life is built on.

[lemonormelon]

Ok so I was wrong...again

No issues at home since I got in from work, having collected DS. I didn't react to DH's needling regarding drinking/buying him drink etc, and I didn't do/say anything that might stress him out, DS was well behaved too.
However, this evening DH went out and bought a half bottle of vodka His reasoning is that if he drinks tonight then he won't drink tomorrow when he's going to see his friend to go/discuss going to AA
I tried not to react badly ('provoke') to him, but I asked him to explain it to me as I didn't see the logic in his thinking because there is none. He basically couldn't but told me he knows he's an alcoholic and drinking is how he deals with the stresses of life, as if somehow I'd think 'ah, that's ok then' I think he's desperately seeking attention.

I'm working early tomorrow and he has to take DS to nursery. They can walk there and I've taken his car keys so make sure he can't drive. I'm very tempted to come home from work for an hour or so to get DS up and out to nursery, but that is all DH has to do and me doing that could just enable him to do it again. (In all likelyhood DH will be fine in the morning, half a bottle of vodka is nothing to him). What about DS though?

I think I need to start planning a separation, this is not going to stop anytime soon is it?

[Costacoffeeplease]

No, it isn't, he needs much more than you can provide

Look after yourself and your child(ren), he has to do it himself

[Prawnofthepatriarchy]

Oh shit, lemon. This isn't looking good. Give it a few more days - he may, possibly, go to AA with this friend tomorrow - but I won't be holding my breath. I shall be thinking of you.

Could you write him a letter? A letter setting out that unless he does something now it's over, and that his drinking means he won't get unsupervised access to DS. The loss of his son may hit home.

It's an old and effective trick of my DMs for communicating over serious, sensitive matters. She says a letter takes the emotion out of things and lets the writer have their say without interruption. Then, once you've handed it to him, the letter is there, in black and white, to be re-read, and he can't say he doesn't know how you feel or what you intend.

[Dontyouopenthattrapdoor]

He either needs to leave, or you do. What's your situation, do you own/rent?

IF he wants to be with you he has to sort himself out. He doesn't want that enough at the moment sadly so your job is to protect you and your little one as best you can.

I'm so sorry. You deserve so much better.

[Squeegle]

Please realise alcoholic thinking is twisted thinking. It is not logical. It took me a long time to get it, but it is the root of a lot of stuff - they literally don't think straight.
Can you go to al anon? Or have a look at www.soberrecovery.com/forums/friends-family-alcoholics/- I found this extremely useful.

It's all about your boundaries now, you cannot tell him what to do, but you don't have to accept living with a drunkard! That sounds harsh, but it was only when I realised this that things changed for me.
Good luck. Be strong, you can do it.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

think I need to start planning a separation, this is not going to stop anytime soon is it?

Yes you do need to start planning a separation and this is really not going to stop anytime soon. I also think this man who he has been planning to see will simply end up enabling him as well.

Am glad you found the link to the 3 act play helpful.

Your H could go onto lose absolutely everything around him and he could still continue to drink afterwards. He may never actually stop drinking and you are not the person to stop him. Only he can do that for his own self.

Protect yourself and your DS: he cannot afford to grow up in a home where alcoholism features. It is truly a family disease and one that does not just affect the alcoholic. Squeegle mentioned boundaries, this poster is absolutely correct when she writes that.

[Dowser]

My black and white logic tells me if he was truly penitent he would be banging on aa's door the very next day.
And the day after and the one after that.

He would not be sending you those texts about alcohol, which is just a form of torture for you.

He would not be buying vodka.

He's failed on three counts and it's time for him to leave.

My friend left her alcoholic husband when they hit the last straw ( him neglecting child when drunk )
Even the shame of that didn't stop him. He carried on drinking and died two years later.

It's sad. My lovely compassionate friend did everything in her power to help him. Even continued a relationship when they split on a friendly level ...but he wouldn't/ couldn't do it.

I'm the lucky recipient of being married to a wonderful man because his previous ( late ) wife couldn't do it either.

[tribpot]

You really have to understand, the drinking is nothing about you. Not what you've done, what you've not done, said or not said. There is nothing you can do to help him. He seems to be enjoying having the power over you that comes with the fact you care more about his drinking than he does. Texting you to ask you get beers in is just cruel.

The longer you carry on on the merry-go-round the closer you get to co-dependency. You can't help him and you must help yourself.

[Dowser]

He's playing cruel games with you op . Like trig pot says.

Don't look at the words...look at the actions.

[Squeegle]

A poster on the Sober Recovery website had a signature which read (something like):

"You're not the reason he drinks
You're not that powerful"

It always stuck with me, it's a good mantra to remember. My ex used to tell me he drank cos it was too miserable living with me. I believed him for quite a long time........

[SusieQwhereareyou]

My ex's drinking escalated after we separated, in fact the night I told him I wanted us to split he took the opportunity to drink. And of course he needed a drink, his wife was leaving him, who could blame him for having one too many? And nearly two years later, the breakdown of our marriage is one of the reasons he cites for his constant relapses. Due to incidents that have happened, he is not able to have unsupervised contact with our DCs. When you separate from an alcoholic, you do need to do more planning and be prepared for more than in a "normal"situation. I hope that for your DH it will act as a wake up call, but it is sensible to be prepared incase.

[RunRabbitRunRabbit]

Hope for the best. Plan for the worst.

Hope he decides to deal with his drinking.

Plan to separate. Get planning. In detail. Like it is really happening.

[lemonormelon]

He's definitely spiralling. Just got home from work, he's in bed, has been all day. Meeting with his friend has been cancelled (he sited being in bed, ill hungover).
I'll start planning for separation, I don't know enough about where I stand yet. The house is mortgaged, in my name only, the cars are mine, though he is the registered keeper of one. I'm the main earner (not withstanding his recent job loss). I can manage financially alone but childcare is a big and expensive problem because of my shifts. I'd need a nanny or a change to all my shifts (unlikely). I don't know if I can make him leave, but I won't and can't afford two homes and additional childcare (nanny) anyway. What else do I need to find out?

[Squeegle]

You could find out if you are entitled to any help if he is not there any more - ie reduction in council tax, help with childcare etc. Is there anyone who can help you nearby/ family etc in the short term?

[tribpot]

When your family visited last week, did you tell them what had happened? If you kept the secret, now is the time to stop. The fact he won't even meet his friend tells you he has no intention of stopping drinking.

You really need to start taking the steps, and gathering support because he is going to try and make you feel like you are killing him if you force him out of the house. That he will have nothing to live for and no reason not to drink. You will need to be strong through this.

Can you get rid of the car that he drives? It isn't safe, and it's another expense.

I would get yourself to a solicitor and find out how quickly you can get him out once he becomes destructive or violent, unfortunately I don't think you can do so beforehand. Is there anywhere he can go? He will point to the fact he's lost his job as a reason why he can't move out.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

"Meeting with his friend has been cancelled"

I was not at all surprised to read that; not that his friend would be able to help him either anyway. This man could have simply ended up enabling your H.

What tribpot wrote earlier too.

BTW where he does go when he moves out is not your concern. You are not responsible for him when all is said and done.

Read up also on alcoholism and codependency within such relationships as well. You are still mired in codependency and that emotional state is unhealthy.

Your own recovery from all this will start only when he is gone from your life day to day.

[LoveRosie2008]

Sorry I haven't read the whole thread but alcohol is not the problem. All substance abuse is down to numbing deep rooted problems. He needs extensive therapy if he is to change, which could take a long time.

[Prawnofthepatriarchy]

I'm so sorry to hear this, lemon. For those who say he's not to going to change, alcoholics are doing it all the time. But sadly, more alcoholics die of the disease than get sober.

OK, there's always hope. All it takes is one day, one meeting and a light bulb moment but it doesn't look like today is the day. If he's sitting hungover in bed I'd go in there and pour cold water on his self-pity by setting out calmly that you're working out what your next steps will be should he carry on the way he is. He's the one killing your marriage.

What are your options? If I were you I might give him a deadline for moving into a bedsit (or whatever you can afford). Then, if he's still drinking when the deadline's up, I'd ask a big male friend or relative to physically remove him from the house. Where he sleeps after that isn't your concern. None of this is your fault in any way.

Self-pity is one of the key alcoholic emotions. We're so sorry for ourselves that no one else gets a look in. Sober AAs say it goes like this: "Poor me. Poor me. Pour me a drink."

Regarding online resources, I've found www.supportline.org.uk/problems/alcohol.php, www.nhs.uk/Livewell/alcohol/Pages/Alcoholsupport.aspx and alanon.activeboard.com/.

The only thing I'd say is that the last link is American and AA there tends to be overtly religious, which British AA isn't. We pray because "handing over" is vital, but we always stress that you can pray to whatever/whoever you want. Some pray to GOD - group of drunks.

[KingLooieCatz]

Might an au pair be sufficient?

[lemonormelon]

I called DHs friend. He had no idea it was so bad, and didn't know he'd lost his job. I told him DH was hungover, not ill as he claimed. I thanked him for offering to help and said I thought he should have all the facts if he wanted to be there for DH. I don't know if I should have done that but just saying it to someone else who knows DH helped me a little. I really hope he can offer some support to DH.

I didn't tell family when they visited. We had a good day out but DH was distant, on his phone a lot, standing away from the rest of us. He did play with the kids a bit though which was good.
I know no one would be very surprised to hear he has a drink problem, maybe the extent of it would be a shock though. The thing is, my family will want him out of mines and DS's lives, his family will want me to help him. I can't help him and I don't know if I can get him to leave.

Practically speaking, 'his' car has outstanding finance but I'll look into how I could get rid of it. I think I'd get a discount on council tax if it was just me and DS in the house. I won't be entitled to any benefits etc because of my salary. I know that sounds a great financial position to be in but it's really not all it seems; I pay for everything and have done for a long time, and the childcare costs would be astronomical if DH left.

I'm certain he'll claim I am destroying him (no home), his job prospects (no car), and life (no family) if I ask him to go. That will be hard to deal with if/when it happens but I know it's not my fault.
Is it really the case that he can refuse to leave and I can only get him to go if he threatens violence?