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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

DH had Emotional Affair but complicated life situation

68 replies

ExpatTrailingSpouse · 25/08/2016 18:39

First time poster on here - have been reading lots of posts last year or so, and now looking for thoughts, maybe not advice per se.

Also, apologize in advance if this gets a bit long, it's a complicated situation.

Last year, I found out DH was having at the very least an emotional affair while he was on a business trip with a work colleague and missed our DS' 2nd birthday. Turned out actually it had been going on since before our DS was 1 and maybe even longer than that. He worked in location A and she in location B - so when he travelled to B, he would always see her for dinner at least. Several overseas business trips - Europe, Asia, etc, where it turned out he was spending all his spare time with her outside of work meetings. Plus the last trip when I found out - the work meeting was all of two days - he spent almost two full weeks with her jaunting around Europe in different locations, and in fact changed his original dates to extend so that he would purposefully miss our DS 2nd birthday.

According to him, he swears no physical stuff happened, OW had no idea he thought of her as more than friends, and that she just likes to travel with other married male colleagues. I've never met her, despite having been with him on business trips to her location, and actually being in some of the European cities at the same time as her (Paris, unknown to me he was with her in Paris for a day or two before I got there with DS to meet up with him). So find it hard to believe that some OW would think it's ok to go on trips with a married colleague without even thinking about if the wife knows or ever meeting the wife, etc etc, plus the implausibility of it all in general.

Some other stuff - we're on expat assignment, had just signed a contract to buy our first house and a cross-country move due to his job when I found out. I couldn't see an easy way to get out of the contract as he admitted who he was with two days after the option period expired and we were already committed to the move so we ended up buying the house. I'm on a visa where I could work but a) we've been moving every 2-3 years and until recently I've been SAHM with our now 3 year old, and b) I've no idea what happens to my immigration status if we separate. His family have no idea what's happened but must have picked up some vibes. If I leave I'd potentially have to leave the country, and also have been out of work for over 3 years (essentially quit my Phd) due to having DS and being a trailing spouse following DH for his job, so don't even know if I could get a decent job anymore. Also that means DS would be far away from his dad since it'd be two different countries... DH has said he would quit his job if we left, except as the sole current income of our family, that's not exactly helpful either.

We've been going to counseling - took 8 months before he finally got sorted to actually go regularly as opposed to once every few months. Sometimes I think we're making progress, then other times, feel like we've made none. Examples: found out 4 months after original d-day, that he was still working with this OW, even though he told me he was no contact. Found out couple of weeks ago, that his big trip with her last year actually had yet another country involved and only because I accidentally came across a souvenir (I was looking for something I'd lost), and he tried to tell me that first off he already had told me when I knew he hadn't, and second that it wasn't a big deal. Also found out he may have screwed the pooch at work too, as his most likely career path would take him back to being under direct supervision of the OW!

He's definitely improved his parenting, no doubts there, but more and more feeling like reconciliation for us as a couple isn't possible by this point. He is kind of trying at home to contribute more (cleaning up after himself, etc), but I feel like that's just coming up to a minimum standard that I should have held him to before all this came out. (Example: cleaning his own p*ss off the floor). And all I get in counseling is - can't you see I'm trying, or don't you think i'm trying, which just makes me feel like I'm the bad guy for nagging him to actually follow through and do what he says he's going to do.

I feel like I'm starting to ramble, but just so much sh*t going on at once, it's hard to distil the salient points. Any thoughts/ideas welcome...

OP posts:
springydaffs · 13/09/2016 22:24

But it took me a long time to recognise I was in an abusive relationship - which was right up there, actually. You hear stories of women who are being hit etc and you think things aren't like that for you so it's not as bad. It really was as bad for me - he was too clever to hit me. Just fried my heart and mind.

ExpatTrailingSpouse · 16/09/2016 16:17

ugh, so spent the ridiculous amount of money to find out from a lawyer who does international separations/divorces that basically i'm f*cked if i want to take ds out of country and dh decides to be an ass about it. if i leave with ds without permission he can sue under hague convention to have ds returned to the US. otherwise, I'd need to sue for custody and right to remove him. plus if courts rule that ds should stay in US, that has not so good immigration consequences - i need more advice from an immigration specialist. also told that the county i live in is particularly redneck about it... wonderful stuff.

OP posts:
springydaffs · 17/09/2016 00:55

Where was ds born?

Sprinklestar · 17/09/2016 02:38

I was just going to mention The Hague Convention. I'm also British living in the US and on my DH's visa, so whilst I haven't been in your position, I have had friends who have and understand a lot of your angst.

This is what I would do in your position...

Travel back to the UK/your home country with DS (and potentially DH) on the pretext of an annual visit, mum's birthday, someone in hospital, Chritsmas, whatever it may be. Your DH will obviously be giving permission for DS to travel if he's traveling with you. Once there and safe, see a solicitor and put a stop on your DS's passports so that he can't be taken out of the country. Tell your DH that you will not be returning with him.

As your DS is a US citizen, it's a tricky one, but it counts in your favour that your DH isn't. Once you're all in the UK (or your other country) then the laws of that country will apply. I know there's the notion of 'habitual residency' but it would be hard to claim that as it's pretty obvious you all moved to the US for DH's job (and in reality, would DH want to be a single parent in the US?!). Tear up yours and DS's passports if you need to to prevent travel back to the US in the short term.

I don't envy you but I know of women who have got out of worse situations. Be careful not to do anything illegal and don't be bullied by DH. I wouldn't waste money on US lawyers if I were you and would definitely try and separate from the UK/your home country, if only because you know the systems.

VimFuego101 · 17/09/2016 02:52

That's very bad advice, Sprinklestar.

Sprinklestar · 17/09/2016 03:03

Why Vim? I've known people do it before (and successfully).

ExpatTrailingSpouse · 17/09/2016 03:26

Ds is us born. Lawyer was quite clear that under Hague convention ds habitual jurisdiction is definitely here unless I have explicit permission to move ds permanently or unless uk courts somehow gain jurisdiction (she didn't think so and I'd need to contact a uk lawyer to confirm) or unless dh leaves our current state as well.
This is all speculation - I've no idea how dh would react to an actual split - it could be he'll bend over backwards to accommodate but I also think he could get very resentful and difficult. So strongest legal standing is ideal...

OP posts:
Kr1stina · 17/09/2016 06:40

He's not exactly bent over backwards to fix your marriage.

So why would he do so to accommodate your wishes after a separation ?

I think you are wise to assume that he will be as difficult as possible and plan for that . He sounds like a very selfish man with a large sense of entitlement and my guess is that he will be outraged if you decide to leave him.

Sorry

Sprinklestar · 17/09/2016 12:35

Which state are you in, OP?

ExpatTrailingSpouse · 18/09/2016 23:02

Kr1stina - it's hard to know. i think he wouldn't want people to know what a shit he's been, and i would have no hesitation telling people if asked. he however has not confided in a single person because he knows how bad it makes him look. but... there's no telling what people will do when they're under pressure. i know how my own parents did and it was awful.

Sprinklestar - don't want to be too specific, but basically think southern redneck...

sorry for late replies... not much alone time to post...

OP posts:
Mouikey · 19/09/2016 09:29

I'll probably be flamed for this and it appears everyone has made their mind up, but have I got the wrong end of the stick???

You said that your DH has to travel all over for work. Over the past X months this has included being with 'OW' who also works in the company, in a more senior position and culturally would feel secure travelling with MM. There is also an issue that DH missed your DS birthday because a trip was extended.

So my question is, if these are all work related trips, have you not considered that they have to actually work together and that he has little/no option on this. Additionally missing your DS birthday is very sad, but again did his work require him to stay longer or was it his choice? Sadly this kind of thing happens when you work in this type of environment. It's not glamorous and ehilst your DH maybe able to get some free time to visit the sights, is it terrible that he does that with another person in a similar situation. Does this really mean he is having and emotional or indeed a physical affair with the 'OW'?

Clearly there are big issues in your relationship including trust and it's good that you are in counselling.

Personally I wouldn't jump straight to the he is absolutely having a physical affair because this is so connected with his work. He might be, but unless evidence suggests otherwise you may be portraying yourself as someone who has significant trust and jealousy issues. I'd suggest treading lightly unless you are definite that it is over.

Sorry just a different perspective I guess!

Good luck x

ExpatTrailingSpouse · 19/09/2016 15:19

Mouikey possibly i wasn't clear enough in my OP.

It's been 16 months since i found out, with his relationship with OW going on since basically DS was a baby, so at least 12-14 months prior to that.

The trip on which he was found out and which he missed DS' 2nd bday for lasted 13 days - only 2 of which were actual work days. The rest was purely vacation. He originally said his meeting started 2 days after DS birthday (which actually it did), which meant he could have left late on DS birthday and still made it in time. Then said the meeting got extended so it started one day after (untrue), then a couple weeks later, said the meeting started 2 days before DS birthday (also untrue). So no, no way to mistake what happened. He also left me alone in the middle of sorting out the mortgage for our first house with our then almost 2 yo to rush off to be with OW (as i said, all in the middle of a cross country move), and I figured things out 2 days too late to cancel the purchase.

After he got back from that trip (I finally figured it out about 3 days before he was due to return home, and was gullible enough to believe him that he still had work meetings to go to) - i slowly slowly found out the extent of what had been going on. He had mentioned the OW once years before in the context of complaining how difficult she had been to work with. Never once did i meet her (I met other female colleagues, whom we had over to our house and went to theirs etc), and there were plenty of opportunities. He never ever mentioned that many of his so-called work dinners were actually social dinners with OW. Pretended to be alone in the spare time during his business trips, set up secret email account to communicate etc etc. Regardless of if they actually had sex, I'm pretty sure this type of behaviour is not ok for married people.

Not only that, he's admitted to all of this. Won't admit to anything physical, but admits to having developed this relationship and having had hopes of it becoming physical/more. But as soon as he got found out, suddenly shocked that i would entertain leaving him, so sorry, etc etc.

16 months on, I don't think we've made much progress at all - if you've read the incompetent husband threads, i think my situation is much like that only stretched out over 16 months after finding out about OW.

It's very nice to be able to post here, even if it gets long so thanks for reading - just "saying" it to other people on MN helps ease the stress of not really being able to confide in people around me in RL.

OP posts:
SolomanDaisy · 19/09/2016 15:49

I read the first couple of pages thinking, 'why didn't the lawyer tell her about The Hague convention?' I'm glad you've spoken to one who knows what they're talking about. I also live abroad and know several people who have been stuck living away from their home country because of this. Do you think there's any possibility he would give you permission to leave with DS?

ExpatTrailingSpouse · 19/09/2016 16:12

SolomanDaisy the first lawyer i spoke to in another state told me i didn't need permission to take him but she wasn't a lawyer with experience in international custody - her view was that since DH can follow there's no real abduction. this one specifically specializes in international custody etc, and was quite clear on the different scenarios. I think chances are good that i would be able to leave with DS... but no guarantee - think sulky man child who might cut off their nose to spite their face...

OP posts:
ExpatTrailingSpouse · 05/10/2016 19:27

feeling sick in my stomach - have started applying for jobs in the two countries i have living/working rights... why is this crap so hard?

OP posts:
Whisky2014 · 05/10/2016 19:40

Good luck. You are doing the right thing :)

Kr1stina · 05/10/2016 19:52

I'm sorry , it is indeed crap, he has treated you very badly and you don't deserve it

zznotxy · 05/10/2016 19:56

I have been the expat - with trailing ( but completely lovely spouse) and met so, so many people in similar situations to you - be it with the maid, work colleague etc. The ones that have come out of it best are those, like you, who have taken a strong line. Keep going, and the very best of luck.

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