Another thread about splitting finances in a couple..

[wozzle95]

This time we are unmarried. We have one child together and I am step mum to his 2 kids.

He earns mega bucks. Over a seven figure sum. I used to have the same career and earned six figures and was on track to earn much more. But we decided if we had kids, we'd never see them if i worked those hours and also a perfect less hours' less money job came along which i took shortly before i got pregnant. (I ended up hating it and had i not got pregnant would have gone back into previous high earning job at a different company).

We are not married. He lost a lot in his first divorce and is therefore v reticent. I accepted this and that it might take some time (if ever) to change his mind. Have started work again too but very part time..a few hours' here and there very sporadically. Am too busy being mum, cook, cleaner, taxi, gardener etc to manage much more at this point (my child is only a toddler). I expect to earn maybe £25k this year.

Now OH is saying if I earned more like 40k or over, he'd expect me to contribute towards our bills. I instead believe I need to save this for my own financial security. On top of his seven figure salary he has about another million in assets. I feel this is very unfair and that my sacrifice of my career should be compensated a little, married or not. AIBU? Yes I went into this with my eyes open. Nor would I expect anything like joint pooling of assets. I'd just like to know views on whether my view is reasonable that I should receive some recognition for the sacrifice (which also enables him to do his job...he has always been very vocal that he does not believe kids fare best with 2 working parents). It's also not always as simple as 'well you should have waited for someone to marry'...we fell in love and have a beautiful child and I feel very blessed. I am also older and time was not on my side to argue the marriage issue before conceiving.

But having given away so much of his money in the first divorce, can you understand a bit why he is like this?

No. Because it wasn't his money, it was family money. Whoever earned it, and whoever's bank account it was in. And on divorce they then needed to split it. The fact that he thought of his earnings as solely his money during his marriage (probably to a woman who took on all the traditional wife-work and therefore had her earning potential capped massively, like you) speaks volumes...

I would have every reason - more than your partner - to refuse to get married a second time. I'm widowed, and with life insurance payouts and the like I have assets to protect, which my dependant children will need now if anything happens to me, or should inherit if not as that money comes from their father. But, with appropriate legal protection for those assets, which does exist, I would absolutely get married again if I were to have a child with someone else.

(Incidentally, although my children no longer have a father, I would never, ever encourage my children to call a new partner of mine their "half dad". Or tell someone I wouldn't marry and even let become step-dad that he's more like a real dad.)

'But having given away so much of his money in the first divorce, can you understand a bit why he is like this? '

He gave it away? For real, you see it like this for her, but different for you? She was his wife. She had 2 children with him and quite possibly, if the settlement is large (obviously the court agreed it) then she enabled him to have the career he did. He wouldn't have all that money without her assistance. A settlement is not giving away, it's what the court decides is fair and reasonable for one spouse's contribution to the marital assets.

That face that you, an unmarried partner, see it as 'giving away' is startling.

I'll bet he's happy - he gets a nanny for all his kids, housekeeper and sex for the price of roughly just the nanny. He's quid's in!

Baby fever has a lot to answer for, I understand. But continued burying your head in the sand to play Wifey is very silly.

I can't believe a couple with over a million pounds coming into the household each year are arguing over money. He is basically trying to make sure you don't get very much of his vast income.

We don't have much more than your current salary between us. We have no money issues.
I do not like the sound of your DP and contrary to other advice you have been given I would not marry him. I would leave him. His behaviour indicates he does not respect, love or trust you.

You've received very good advice here but I have a feeling that you're not going to take it on board. If he's paying off your mortgage etc why is he suddenly bleating about your contribution?

Even married, I am being careful about protecting myself when we have our baby. We will take shared parental leave, I will go back to work within 6 months and all our income will be shared while we only have one working parent. I couldn't put myself in such a dependent position.

So, talking vague figures, if he earns exactly £1m and you were to earn £40k you would be earning 4% of what he earns. He is a right weasel, especially as it sound like he actually earns more than that.

Tell him you will pay 4% less a proportion as he should pay for himself and his kids and you will pay for you and 1/2 towards your daughter. Not sure how much time his kids spend with their mum, obviously that needs to be taken into account. Hmm, maybe you should pay 2%? That would be super fair wouldn't it?

I am fuming this is actually financial abuse. Twatty man. Stop apologising for him!

Bollocks did he have to give away "his money" in the divorce.
Absolute fucking bollocks.
Sorry for the language but do intelligent women still swallow this woman hating nonsense?

He didn't give his ex wife his money, he married her and in so doing made a legal contract to join assets: eyes wide open, everyone knows this.

What he "gave" her was what was agreed under that contract. And I daresay compensated her for wrecking her own career chances to care for his/their two children. The money he "gave" her is for his children.

The difference between you and his XW is that she didn't have to post on MN about financial security because she didn't combine giving up her own career, benefiting him, and not being married.

I'd be really interested to know how much you're doing for him (for him) for the kids that aren't even yours.

I'm all for a pre nup as it happens.
I don't think you should get half his money if you split.
But nor do I think you should have to lose part of £40K when he's on over a million. Total arsehole.

He doesn't sound very nice, and the fact that you are posting indicates that maybe you are not so sure about his niceness after all. Please be very very wary about the way he is talking about his ex wife, that on its own sounds very worrying.

you need to protect yourself and your child pronto.

I'd get the cash from him to pay off the mortgage on your flat ASAP. Save the income from renting this out each month.

Do not touch your savings. Not at all. Do you have a joint account or an account you have access to for spending on a daily basis? Use that account for your day to day purchases and also draw some cash out each month to top up your savings.

I would also look into going back to work asap either PT or FT and saving all your income - hence the question about access to other money above. I sound also ask him to cover the childcare costs. He can afford it after all.

In terms of contributing to the cost of your household I think that's reasonable but only if it's worked out proportionately according to your incomes so if that's 4% then that's what it is and that's what you contribute.

It might sound calculated and harsh but if you split need to know you can take care of you and your son.

I wouldn't have had a child with my DH and his comparatively meagre £50k salary without being married first. You've put yourself in a very vulnerable position and I think during counselling you need to thrash out a plan. Why can't you marry with a pre nup?

I'm not married and I have DC but I have made sure I am relatively financially secure should my relationship end tomorrow.

The house is 50/50, I have at least a years salary saved (took me 5 years ish) in my own personal savings account and all our 'family' savings are in my name. I also currently work FT and save around 40% of my salary each month. I also have a pension I pay into each month.

I'm not saying that to be boastful, im saying that you do not necessarily need to be married in order to have a level of financial security.

The will situation is ok... half of his estate will go to my son and I

I wouldn't count on that. If the relationship breaks up, he'll have you off that will immediately. Your son will probably split assets with his two half-siblings. Given that you'd said there's a million in assets, that's not an awful lot split between the three of them.

In all likelihood, if you and he split, he'll start another relationship and have more children. Then your son will be splitting that pot with a lot more people.

I'm stumped as to why you gave up work.

No one who earns a million a year has a million in assets . Either he is lying or you are deluded.

I thought you said he owns the house that you live in ? And doesn't he have any pensions or savings? Seriously?

Tell me something, how much child support does he pay and how often do you care for his children at his house ?

The house is in his name.
my son and I inherit half his estate
If you are not married and the house is in his name, even if he leaves you half his estate, you will be liable for 40% inheritance tax.
He has put you in a very vulnerable position.
And I would check the wording of that Will very carefully. Is it 25% for you and 25% for his son, or 50% for both of you?

I think this is complicated. On the one hand, of course he should recognise your contribution in a meaningful way that will continue even if the relationship breaks up or he dies (and I agree with JustHere that he can change his will at any time, and without your knowledge).

On the other hand, it does not sound like you want to work outside the home and there will be financial consequences to that choice.

My first thought about the will is that it could have been changed at any point in the past or in the future.

I don't think your situation is nearly as dire as pp. As it stands he is giving you savings, paying your mortgage and you're keeping the rent you acrue. So in the event of a split you would have, presumably decent savings, your flat and maintenance for your ds fro him and would return to work. You will also have had the benefit of a comfortable lire style thus far. And being at home with your son. Are you happy with that?

If he died you could be in line for some inheritance tax, but again that's not the end of the world, just easily avoided by getting married. If he won't get married then he won't. Not wanting to get married does not make someone an arsehole. However, it would make me uncomfortable. I'm a SAHM and not married to dp (who earns nothing like your dp!), I've recently said that I might like to get married and his response was 'ok, when?'

Oh and in true mn fashion should you earn £40k you should pay 0.04% of the bills!! Or nothing, which is what I would do!

"He has previously said he recognises the need for me to have savings/pension and so has offered to fill up my ISA each year and he is paying off the mortgage on my flat and allowing me to keep the rent."
Yes, I guess this depends on how much the flat is worth, and when it will be paid off. It's an interesting choice of the word allowing. I would have thought it would be more "we agreed".

He has previously said he recognises the need for me to have savings/pension and so has offered to fill up my ISA each year and he is paying off the mortgage on my flat and allowing me to keep the rent

You earn £1680 a month. He pays all the bills, so that's just your pocket money. He's putting £15,000 a year into your ISA. He's paying off the mortgage on your flat. You get to keep the rent (so your pocket money is likely to be nearer £3k a month) If he dies, you get half of his estate. If you separate, you've got your London flat to move back to (maybe mortgage free), a good salary, a huge ISA and your child maintenance payments would be at least £1000 per month.

Tbh, you are better off financially than most people. Obviously marriage would be even better, but I can't really see the problem here. There are many families up and down the Country living hand to mouth.

I know husky, I can't quite believe that the op has been described as 'vunerable'.

I'm actually beginning to wonder how a person who was in a position earning such a large salary and at such an age as professes to be can be so deluded, tbh. Here's hoping Xenia, who is still floating about, will see this. I'm not a fan, but she does write sense on such issues.

And yy, wills can be changed without the consent of an unmarried partner and they can also be, at great cost, contested by the next of kin. I know many with lesser assets who also chose to form trusts when it comes to their wills and probate. They seek advise to this point. It's a given, really, in such circumstances.

In what way is she deluded? Op seems well aware of the ramifications of her decision to leave her job (I'm guessing fairly temporarily).

"I used to have the same career and earned six figures and was on track to earn much more."
She's given that up, partly through his behest, to care for their child. Surely that joint decision means they share his salary equally while she's having time away from the workplace? Why should she lose out by so much? (Unless her flat is worth a huge amount, of course, which might help to redress the balance. £15k into an ISA might be a lot to us, but look at what she's given up.)

Re DP paying the mortgage on the flat - not an expert in this area, but are there potential legal ramifications/arguments about that if op and dp split up - eg re the beneficial ownership of the flat?