AIBU to resent my DH's 'black sheep' status?

[Dontknowhowtofeelnow]

When we met, he was all about how into his brother and sister and mum and dad he is, and I thought "aw, what a family man!" and this was one of the aspects that I really liked about him.

Then as our relationship progressed and got more solid, it turns out he actually doesn't like anyone in his family at all. He's only confessed this 2 years after we we got married...I'm very close to his sister and we message on a daily basis...something he resents and makes sarky comments about, like "glad she can care about you when she doesn't give a fuck about me."

Thing is, I actually feel like most of this is in his head. I've gotten to know his family, and though they are different in terms of lifestyle/political views/religious stance etc., I don't actually believe they have a problem with him like he believes they do. They HAVE had a few falling outs, but in my opinion, most of this is his skewed view of the situation, his instigation, and their inevitable reaction to it. (Sorry for the vagueness, but trying to not be too detailed.)

I find it incredibly tedious. I just want a lovely, family-bubble to mutually dote on each other's kids and exchange pleasantries and have a nice time together, and I feel awkward being torn between liking them and supporting his, what I feel, are delusions.

If I side with his sister for instance, then I am in the wrong and non-supportive. But most of the conflict has come from him, and I find it embarrassing to be honest.

I should also say is that everyone on my side of the family is gone, either passed away or immigrated. And he and I get along fabulously when he's not hung up on his family deluded problems.

Any advice on how I can reassure him or bridge this gap? Is it a LTB situation? I don't feel it is but it's a massive thorn in my side, none the less.

I think you need to respect his feelings. I have a difficult relationship with my family, however they all massively make an effort in front of outsiders and I come across as being the unreasonable one. I get a lot of 'oh but your family is lovely', yes they are, but it's a front. I'd be really hurt if my partner knew my feelings towards my family and believed it was just nonsense. I'm sure your relationship with his family is very different to the relationship he has with them, you can't dismiss his feelings just because you get on with them. He has these feelings for a reason, even if his sister has changed and is now a wonderful person it can be really difficult to let go of past resentments especially those that have had a huge and lasting impact. Tbh my ex's family were similar, they were lovely to me but I knew he couldn't stand them. Difference is my family are the same so I understood his feelings and they're behaviours so never dismissed how he felt and never supported them over him. You need to respect how he feels and perhaps take a step back and remove yourself from their relationship.

It sounds as if you want a lovely family and he would like a lovely family.

You have each other: it would be a pity if you lost that for the sake of hankering after a wider lovely family who may, indeed, actually be just a front.

It's seems like an awful situation but perhaps you need to decide what you want more him or his family ?

Then you'll find your way forward just a note, you weren't there so you don't know what happened in his family

What's your family dynamic like ?

I would suggest this needs handling by a professional

I think he needs to unpack a lot of his family stuff in therapy. And I think you need to back off from trying to be bezzies with them in the meantime. Be nice by all means but (sorry to sound harsh) it looks like you're using them to fill the gap where your own family was. In a situation like this that can be very hurtful for your partner, as others have said.
You need to accept that actually he may never want to play happy families with them and that's his prerogative to choose. The most important thing is for him to work through his feelings (which he clearly hasn't if he's still at the stage where he wants to send drunken, emotional texts) and reaches a point where he is able to deal with his emotions about his childhood and his family dynamic. And it may be that for him that means little contact. It's his choice.
Encourage him to explore his feelings in a nonjudgmental way, fresh air makes all the difference when it comes to these deep seated bits of emotional baggage we carry around with us.

Morning, everyone.

Thanks for giving me a lot of perspective on this. Full disclosure, I had written this last night after having too many glasses of wine myself and after he had gotten home from the pub with his mates and we argued over him sending that text. So I'm a bit appalled at how mean and selfish I sound above, saying he's deluded, has an ego problem, and is a thorn in my side. I was just caught up in the frustration of it all and pissed so my feelings came out harsher and more dramatic than I intended.

The truth is, I adore him. And we have a very close, "best friend" type partnership...and you've all made me realise that I might be hurting him far more than I intend to, by texting his sister so much. She's a new parent recently so she texts me for advice on baby stuff, and I guess I would feel mean by not responding to her. I've asked DH if he minds us texting and if he's in a good mood he'll say he doesn't, but I maybe shouldn't have taken this at face value and really made sure. Especially when, if he IS thinking about things, he says the whole "nice she can care about you when she doesn't give a fuck about me" thing.

As someone said up-thread, he was the child who came and went while his other siblings stayed together. There are other events that I obviously can't get into detail about, but he feels very resentful of a few incidences (mostly from the last few years...which is why I didn't know the whole story about his feelings when we first met, as though he had resentment issues, they didn't start getting really bad until these other things happened after we were together), and he didn't admit them all to her in order to fully clear the air, but he hangs on to them and brings them up to me over and over and over when we talk about this stuff. He can't let these things go, nor would I expect him to, but I don't know how he can get past them without either fully disclosing them to her, or finally deciding to go NC or what. I just don't know how to help him deal with these things, and I feel sad for him that they will be this weight on his shoulders for forever if he doesn't properly deal.

Things haven't been the same between them since the heart-to-heart they had last Christmas. Even though on the surface of it, they both walked away seemingly resolving some stuff, they hardly message each other like they used to and she goes through me to organise things. This is what is really hurting him lately, that she doesn't even seem to want to talk directly to him much.

He's really backwards and forwards about the type of relationship he wants to have with her going forward. He thinks it would be selfish of him to break all ties as our DCs really love spending time with his DSIS and he feels guilty for putting an end to that for their sake. But he's so tortured by these feelings...he ignores it and then it builds up and then we get episodes like last night where he gets pissed and then writes it all out in a message to her and then comes to me asking if it's the right thing to do before he sends it, and I get cross because as much as I want him to deal with this, I know sending her a hate-filled message when he's drunk isn't the right way to go about it.

Ultimately my loyalty is to him...if he told me to stop replying to her texts I would.

If he wanted to go NC I would. The problem is he doesn't know he wants to do about it, so he just endlessly discusses it with me over and over and we can have a great talk about it, he stops mentioning it for a few weeks, and then something will happen (birthday, family event) and it all comes back to the surface again, so we discuss it again, the same issues are brought up AGAIN, and it just feels like Groundhog Day. I desperately want to help him, I just don't know how.

This is why he needs to explore it all in a safe space. The best thing you can do for him is to encourage him to have therapy, support him while he's doing that, let him express his feelings without trying to 'fix' them all the time, and back off from his sister so that she has to contact him to arrange things.

And, you know, if that means the kids see a bit less of each other for a couple of years or so then it's not that big a deal. Better than their dad still being unhappy around his family for another decade or two down the line.

Fundamentally it sounds as though he never gets to put his feelings first - his siblings and then you and now the kids all being prioritised. This is clearly part of the dynamic he picked up in childhood and he's clearly deeply frustrated and hurt that he never gets to just want something without feeling guilty that it would override what someone else wants.
You need to prioritise his feelings and support him in being able to articulate them without this burden of frustration and resentment and guilt about having those feelings.

I think you're being unreasonable to expect the relationship with your partner to come with the ready made addition of a happy family.

Families are complex and feelings like this don't come on overnight.

You should be supporting your DP in getting counselling to resolve his clearly deep rooted issues with his family rather than getting annoyed it's not the idealised set up you want.

Thank goodness for your follow up post, as it's saved me the post I was composing in my at being horrified at how unsupportive you are!

You want a nice replacement family bubble for your own family not providing that.

You can't just make that from his.

My own family (some members) are fucking awful but if an outsider met them, they'd come away saying "oh is Lucy soooooo lovely?"

Encourage him to go to counselling. Not with the aim of creating your perfect extended family bubble though - with the aim of him finding peace. Which might be without them entirely.

He's your husband - you should have his back.

Ever consider that the sister is using you to get at him?

His DSIS is the one who can do no wrong, for the poster who keeps asking (sorry it's on the other page and is a pain to write this on my phone!). She is very close with their other family members (cousins, aunties, uncles, etc.) and this is why he is sure she has told them about some of these past incidences and has cemented their siding with her over them, which is why he feels like the black sheep now. He actually uses that term, not me. I try and explain that he needs to engage more with them directly if he wants a relationship with them, but he's like "it's too late, DSIS got to them I'm sure, so they all hate me."

And to be honest she has bad-mouthed other people to me so I do know she can be capable of this type of thing, so he could very well be right about this.

She's also never apologised to him over the past incidences. She explained herself, her stance, and has acknowledged his feelings, but she's never once said sorry. THIS really, really bothers him. I think from her POV she doesn't feel there's anything to be sorry for, as she was the innocent one in all of it, and he just got her all wrong. From his perspective, she manipulates, twists, doesn't disclose things, and uses passive aggressive tactics to make him feel constantly in the wrong.

Does he have form for falling out with friends, trouble with workmates or neighbours? If not and l kinda feel he doesn't then there is a real issue with his family. He sounds like a good guy so there has to be some foundation to his feelings. It is possible for you to like his dsis as you have no history with her but does she seem to you to care about her db?

Right, so his sister has form for being a bitch.
Don't over ride his feelings and his knowledge of his childhood just because you want a perfect family.

I'm astounded that you are feeling so fed up at this mans inability to come to terms with the fault dynamics of his childhood!

No offence but you clearly have no clue on the sort of effect dysfunction can have on a person.

Whatever you do, stop praising his sister. How do you know she isn't loving the fact that you are in touch with her every day to the detriment of her brother? Perhaps she knows this will upset him?

There's a strong chance she knows how to push his buttons way more than you realise.

Tell him you are sorry for dismissing his feelings and that you did not grasp the depth of the situation until now.

My family could be in a glossy magazine for Perfect Families - they are impossibly gorgeous when in public. But the truth is they are a toxic brood.

It was me who kept asking about the Golden Child. Google this, and family scapegoat.

No question he needs ongoing therapy. This stuff doesn't just go away. His sister could well be hoovering you to twist the knife in him.

Nice one springy, you knew what you were looking for.

Listen carefully to what your husband is telling you. There is a lot that outsiders can't see that goes on in families.

If he feels the way he feels, there must be a reason even if it's not obvious to you. I would be very upset if my husband took my family's side and not mine. Hard as it might be, you belong first to his team. Be a fair team player and try your best to see his side. Maybe he's been scapegoated by the whole family dynamics. There's a lot of dysfunctionality in families where they all appear to be so good and proper. However, in many cases the black sheep or scapegoat are the ones who have their eyes wide open and see the family for what it really is.

OP, your sister in law sounds terribly manipulative. The word dysfunctional doesn't begin to describe her.

No clue if your SIL really is a massive bitch, but crucially, that's how your DH perceives her. My db is, to outward appearances, a fun and great guy. I can't bear him. Too much hurt from him being golden child, me being scapegoat, him knowing this and laughing about it plus some truly horrible stuff that went on.

I think as pp have mentioned, you need to pull back from SIL, let her arrange stuff through your DH rather than contact you all the time.

Your DH clearly has some issues with his dsis, don't belittle this. It stems from way back and he needs a therapist to give him a neutral safe space to get it out in the open and analyse it.

You being close with her doesn't help the situation.

I would back right off and cool your contact with his Dsis, until he has talked his issues through.
I'd tell him that, and that you are on his side.

Not sure what you're getting at there, pasic.

If your DH feels he is the black sheep (aka the scapegoat) then there will be a golden child in the family - the two go together. I was trying to clarify if there was a golden child in the family in order to see if the golden child/scapegoat dynamic was established in his family - as there could be a number of reasons for your DH's feelings toward his sister eg he had a disrupted childhood (and could feel left out on some level). But you have confirmed his sister - the one he has problems with - appears to be the golden child. It follows that someone in the family will be the scapegoat. Your DH feels it's him.

However, this stuff needs to be unpicked by a professional as it is very complex.

But you do need to get on his team - as others are saying. Your loyalty goes to him first.

by the way my brother is 'funny sympathetic and engaging' just not to me.
He says outrageously nasty stuff to me, always has, yet is perfectly charming to others.
I think you should side with your DH not his half sister.

I'm going to go against the grain here and say he sounds like he enjoys being the victim" glad she can care about you when she doesn't give a fuck about me". Then he's attempting to send her abusive drunken messages, arguing with you and not speaking to you about it.

Is there any evidence at all to suggest that his sister has turned other family members against him ? I assure you that if he was on the receiving end of a smear campaign by a toxic person you would know about it. You yourself would probably be guilty by association and probably vandalized also.

Plenty of us have toxic disordered relatives that have done us a great deal of harm. You either want them in your life or you don't. Constantly discussing them and sending abusive messages isn't ok.

He either wants a relationship with her or he doesn't. If he does he needs to discuss whatever it is that's bothering him, and if he doesn't he needs to stay away. In any event I would refuse to discuss the issue anymore. As others say if there are serious issues from the past it's best explored with a professional.

If he hasn't done any work on his childhood then he's going to be stuck in the victim role. You need some heavy-duty therapy to make your way out of it.