Middle aged mother and the Turkish boyfriend

[KraggleLego]

I'm not sure if this is the right place however I need some advice about my DM. She has always been the type to NEED a man around, my DF was a waste of space who cheated and landed himself in prison more than he was out of it, however she dutifully stuck with him and took us along for visits. Fun. This was until he met someone else and left her, after he went she was in a kind of a, must find man frenzy. It was always a treat to wake up and see a different man there for breakfast in the morning.
This carried on for years until she met my stepfather, he was 19 she was 34. He was ok, he made her happy and he genuinely cared for myself and my brothers they were together for 20 years.
Just about a year ago they split up, they were fighting a lot and my SF got into drugs, however just like with my DF she stayed and stayed until he was the one that left.

So now she's on her own and it's starting again, she was going out every night (fair enough her business) meeting strangers on the internet and sleeping with them on the first night only for her to wonder why she never hears from them again.

More recently she was contacted by a man from turkey, one of those you are so beautiful please be my friend requests on Facebook. He wiggled his way in and now DM is "in Love". It's like reading a Daily Mail article and she wont listen to me.

He is a walking red flag, his facebook profile had no friends except for DM, he barely speaks English and he is apparently possessive and controlling her already, for example I went to visit with my children and he told her to make us leave. She actually made us go. He has been putting pressure on her to go to Turkey, she has now booked a two week ticket for September. (she will be staying with him) and she has never been abroad before. I am so bloody worried for her, she doesn't find it odd that he's mentioning visa's and marriage in the same sentence.

She has no money though and hasn't worked in years, she honestly believes that she is going to walk into a job paying enough for him to live here. I am at my wits end and my brother is pulling his hair out.

In the interests of not drip feeding I met my now husband online 7 years ago, he is Dutch and moved here to be with me, we are now married and have children and she wants the same. Thank you for ploughing through this and I know it reads like an episode of Jeremy Kyle but it is all sadly true.

I know she didn't have it easy as a child, she was the eldest of 5 and was expected to raise her brothers and sister. She doesn't own her own house she rents. I think I do need to step back and treat her like a naughty toddler . I really do feel sorry for her, I almost pity her which isn't the nicest feeling to associate with your mother.

If he moans when she goes out how does he expect her to earn sufficient funds to support his future visa claim?

What is stopping you from just stepping back from all of this? She's not doing anything wrong or doing you any harm.

Your story sounds so sad, for both you and your mother. I have heard so many similar stories - invariably after they have gone wrong.

You are understandably both worried about your mother and frustrated by her poor choices. Unfortunately, we are all the products of our upbringing and life experiences. Fortunate people can learn from the the experience of others and less fortunate people from their own experience. Unfortunately, a few people are incapable of learning even from their own misfortunes and are destined to repeat the same mistakes, presumably in the misguided belief that 'it will be different this time'.

Sadly, it seems that your mother has an astonishing capacity for self deception and is incapable of seeing what is plain to others. It seems that you have no option but to withdraw now that you have done the best you can. Some people simply cannot be protected from themselves.

He cannot deprive her of money or possessions as it sounds as if she has little of either, but she can take comfort in family who care about her. Not everyone has that.

Presumably she thinks she is going to stay with him and I don't want to scare you but I would be concerned for her safety when he finds out she hasn't actually got any money and getting a visa may be tougher than he thought. Women don't have many rights in some of these countries and if he were to abandon her... you can't stop her going as everyone else has said but just make sure she has a couple of emergency numbers including the British Consul. Hope she will be OK and see sense

RedMapleLeaf. Does it not occur to you that OP is actually concerned about her mother?

I wonder if he thinks she has money. Also has she been fully truthful with him also, like has she deducted a few years from her age? Who would possibly think they could have a baby with a 54 year old. This could blow up in her face if she ever gets over to him and he realises the truth.

A friend (over 50) married a 22 year old (she's older than his mum). It is very hard not to be cynical, especially when the young men come from cultures where it's all big family and children, isn't it?

Turkey is not in the EU

Therefore it is correct to bring a spouse into UK you must be earning over £18k per year, I do not think that benefits are counted as income
There may be some other tests to allow entry
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22833136

If your mother went to live in Turkey, I am unsure if she would be able to continue to claim UK benefits

A lot of people would be flattered by the attention of a younger suitor. However their reasons for the online relationship may not be genuine. This can occur whether you are based in the same town, same country or on the other side of the world

"Everyone is looking for love, but very few people are lucky to find it"

or

As an American agony aunt once said, you can chat to another person as much as you like across the miles. But until you have smelt that person you will never know if you really like them (I believe related to pheromones)

It may work out for your Mum, but I know of a few cases that have failed

I went through something similar with my Dad (who was in his early 60s) and his Russian girlfriend (19) - she bled him dry over 5 years, and when she got refused entry to the UK on her upteenth visit, he started flying all over Europe and meeting her there. It was beyond ridiculous and he refused to believe she was meeting other men here like immigration told him!! He spent all of his retirement funds (nearly £50k) keeping her for that time, and as soon as the money had gone, so was she..........much to our relief. I am now left bailing him out and paying his rent when he can't but that's a whole other story. She's your mum and you're very right to worry but trust me, she'll do what she wants and he won't be very interested when he realises she's got nothing to offer other than herself. It's easier said than done to back off, but for your own sanity, you have to. One of DH's employees has got a Thai wife and it took him about 4 years to get her in the UK if that's any comfort.

Have they not met each other in real life yet?
Sorry, I have read the thread - but just in case I have missed something.

I totally understand your concern, I am experiencing something very similar with my sister.

Sister is 53. Her Turkish boyfriend is 36, he is a waiter who spends his summer months in icemelar. In the winter months he returns home (not sure where, within turkey but miles away from the tourist resorts).
Home apparently means with his parents but I have huge doubts on this, he could easily have a wife and children. Do many Turkish men live unmarried with their parents at 36? I can't help but wonder.
My sister met him on holiday four years ago. She seems him as her partner - even though they only see each other twice a year when she goes to see him.
Sister sees him during the holiday season. He works long shifts in the restaurant while she spends the day on the beach, and then spends the evening in his restaurant while he is serving customers.
He has never visited the UK.
My sister owns her home but it still has a sizeable mortgage on it. She works, has a decent income but is now in debt.
Our mother passed away two years ago. She left each of us 35k. I was able to pay my mortgage off with that and still have a bit over. My sister has nothing to show for her share but I know she is now skint.
I am guessing that she is sending money over to him - she would say it was none of my business if I asked. I know she has bought him expensive gifts, she talks about him constantly and will slip up now and again.

Sister is glued to her phone, waiting for whatsapp messages from him. I treated her to a nice meal out last weekend (fairly posh restaurant). The food looked beautiful so she took some photos of the food and sent them to him. He did not respond - when he did the next day he asked if she was trying to make him jealous.
He is controlling, tells her what to wear and does not like her going out. He tells her not to drink alcohol or eat pork products.

This "relationship" started as a one night stand on holiday. She did not have his mobile number but his email, she was obsessively messaging him - it was very one sided.
She bought him an iPhone so that they can Skype and whatsapp each other.

I cannot do anything about this - if I raise any concerns she takes off on me. I know she would go no contact with me if I say too much.
I told her that I would not be surprised if he was married - she will not have this.
I asked her if he works during the winter. Apparently not as he cannot find any work in the winter months - he just stays with his parents.
He could be anyone, but she sees a few weeks a year on his terms as a real relationship.
Sister has mentioned that he would like to open his own restaurant. She would sell her house and be over there in a heartbeat if he asked.
Despite her debts, she would still have a fair bit of cash from a house sale.

I know some will say it's her life and none of my business. I know I can't do anything about it, but I know it will end in tears.
Sorry for going on a bit!

Galaxy and Cauliflower what terrible stories, there must be a lot of it about.

RedMapleLeaf. Does it not occur to you that OP is actually concerned about her mother?

Obviously I can see that she's concerned, but she wants to change her mum's behaviour and she can't. Rather than fuelling the anxiety we'd be better advising her to accept and think about what she is actually willing to offer her mum in terms of support and where her boundaries lie.

I cannot do anything about the situation my sister is in, but I still find it difficult to accept. It's like watching a car crash in slow motion really.

As your mum has not yet met this man Kraggle, it may not develop in to anything ( as he discovers that she has no money).
As her trip draws closer, he may realise that she is not a good bet after all - but then that depends on what she is telling him.
Your mum does need a back plan for when she gets there. He may not even be there to meet her, she will need somewhere to stay or means of getting straight back home. It would be common sense for her to not go at all, but I know she won't listen.
It's so frustrating and it is upsetting for loved ones who have to stand by and witness these scenarios.

I do not give my sister any money directly, but I find myself paying when when we are out - as she is often skint. It's sensible not to give money to people, in this situation, but I feel like I am giving her money for him indirectly. She should be okay off, but she's not. She is spending a lot of her money visiting him (2 or 3 weeks twice a year) and I know she sends gifts over to him.
If she has trouble struggling to pay for something, I end up helping her out. I need to stop this, it's making me angry as I may as well send money direct to her "partner" in Turkey!
I wish I could do something about this but I can't as will not listen. We will end up falling out over it soon. I can see her getting in to serious debt and I will not be able to help her out of it.

My mates mum had a Greek boyfriend, sounds like a similar situation. He was very attractive, a good 15 years younger than her, wanted kids, move to the UK etc. Madly in love, of course. Aren't they all.

From what I gathered though, she just used to go over to Mykonos or wherever and have a week of fun with him!

It soon finished when he realised he wasn't gonna get a visa to the good old UK.

Why can't these women see the wood for the trees?

WHY would a hot young 25 year old guy be interested in a 55 year old woman?

Only one thing.

its scary, the self-delusion isn't it? and I think its interesting that they won't have a conversation about anyone else's concerns. Its like they are living in a complete bubble of unreality. I'd also add it can be pretty selfish too e.g. when they expect relatives to bail them out during and after! Maybe I am being hard-hearted but I think the best thing when they start to talk about their 'loved one' is to close down the conversation completely Zzzzz.... I am sure your mother will be fine OP, your DM will probably have a way of rationalising things whatever the outcome and it sounds like she has survived this kind of thing before.

I wouldn't normally suggest something like this, but since it's such an obvious con, is there some way you can bring forward the point where he realizes she has no money - if you can find his email address perhaps?

Admittedly it wouldn't be an admirable thing to do, but if she's going to be upset, surely it's better that it happens before the whole thing's gone too far, possibly with moneylenders involved, etc?

I know of two people who have met and married this way - one was a scam but the other is genuine...well they've been together for over 2 years in the UK, he's happily working and cooking (as he likes cooking and she hates it). She's learned his language and they go back and visit his family every year - she has a good relationship with her ILs and they Skype regularly. He's never been back to his home country without taking her with him. They seem very happy together - lots in common and lots of shared interests. She's older but the age gap is about 10 years I think, so not too big. So as unlikely as it seems sometimes you do get a genuine match.

I used to work for UKBA and I agree that she won 't get a visa. We see so many of these cases, and they are mainly refused as the man's intentions are pretty obvious.

In fairness though Anne the genuine ones don't always get visas either, do they.

Refuse them all and God the Tribunal will know their own seems to be how it's done...

I know that it's largely borne out of loneliness and desperation, but I cannot imagine what goes through these women's minds! Well, and the men I suppose.

I mean who would honestly believe that someone a half/third of their age is honestly interested in them.

Do none of these women wonder why these hot 25 year old waiters are only interested in 50+ women and not the hot 25 year olds who are swanning around in their bikinis looking gorgeous?

I'm torn between feeling terribly concerned for them and thinking that they get what they deserve

To those who find themselves in this situation with a relative, I think that, for your own sanity, you have to step away. There is nothing you can do and you kind of need to not allow them to burn bridges with you so that they have someone on their side when it, inevitably, goes tits up.

But I also agree with the others about not lending/giving money etc. If running out of money is the only thing that will stop them (on both sides) then you have to let it happen.

PaulDacre I also know of one situation where this has worked, and in exactly the way you describe. But a 10 year age difference isn't the same as a 20 or 30 year one.

I know there is always a chance that this could be genuine and could work out. I do truly want her to be happy.

My problem was that she is now living her whole life as this is real, they are in love and they will be together no matter what. She says she hasn't been sending him money but who knows. I have told her that until you meet someone face to face you cannot know your feelings for sure. She is still going there for two weeks to stay with him.

This man was married before and has a daughter he only sees supervised, she sees nothing wrong with this. She had his daughters picture as her profile on Facebook until I told her she was making herself look ridiculous.

I just want her to go into it with her eyes open.

"I know there is always a chance that this could be genuine and could work out. I do truly want her to be happy".

Realistically speaking, what chance is there that this is at all genuine and could work out?

I doubt very much actually that your mother has ever given you that same consideration re being happy. You saw a succession of men go in and out of your lives during childhood, your mother has always I would argue put her need for a man, any man, above anything and anyone else. That continues to this day, its this overt desperate need for a man. Its not your fault your mother is the ways she is, you did not do that lot of damage to her. Her own family of origin did that and that is why I asked you about her own childhood.

There is more than a chance that the whole thing is being primarily led by him to get into the UK or to extract as much cash from her as possible. She is still acting of her own accord here and is still responsible for her own actions.

Also your mother has never really been happy or content and has also really been the architect of her own demise. She is going into this with her eyes wide open. Some people truly do not want to be rescued and or saved and she is not going to listen to you or anyone else bar this man. She is still chasing a illusion that she has had her whole life that started in her own childhood.

With regards to your own self Kraggle, talking to a therapist about your mother could well help you no end.