Things get even weirder - now feel quite worried

[rememberthetime]

previous thread

[http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2689969-I-am-sure-I-did-the-right-thing-but-marriage-might-be-over?msgid=62582457]

Hopefully that link worked...

So it all kicked off again the last few days. DD and DS started a bit of an agument - she asked him politely not to do something that was triggering her anxiety. he said no. She asked him to just stop for a short while and he again refused and began to accuse her of not taking responsibility for her problems.

At this point DH and I intervened - but H took it as a chance to tell DD she was failing in her communication, that she needs to recognise the impact she has on the family. DS agreed and then H asked me to say how I felt. Then turned to me as if to say "come on...back me up here - that's how you prove you are a proper co-parent". Essentially it became a chance for everyone to have a go at dd. She disintegrated into shouting and crying and shaking. She couldn't understand how she was such a bad person. This went on for at least 30min with dh doing almost all the talking.

Some of what was said was fair - but it was 3 against one and it felt like bullying. I was silent most of the time - until H began telling her to end the conversation and asking her if she would like us to stop and talk about it another time. She said she didn't know and genuinely had o idea what was happening to her. it was awful.

I just bundled her into another room and got her away from it. I was then told off by H as he didn't think it was helpful - but my ds backed me up and pointed out to him that dd needed calming down and I was the person who could do it.

Since then - dd stayed in her room for 36 hours. refused to eat and only this morning has emerged for a drink and snack.

I have told H it is over. That I can't expose our dd to this any longer. he says I am wrong but that I should do whatever I want.

I feel i let her down. I was scared to voice what I was seeing and the injustice and tried to get her to see the good points we were making. I didn't realise until much later that the whole thing was engineered to be a chance to bully her.

Now for the weird bits. Today he sent all of us (the kids too) a link to a you tube video of some Indian guru talking about how important it is to feel sure of yourself and not to let outside stuff affect your behaviour etc. just some waffle to be honest.

He said in his email to all of us that he is so happy to have finally gotten to this point in his life and how it has been a long journey - but he is so happy and excited for the future.

DD asked if he had become a buddhist or something. She and I are incredulous.

He also asked me to read a section of a book this morning which essentially told me I am an over protective mother.

My head is in a whirl. I honestly don't know what to think. he bombards us with psychobabble and it is almost starting to feel pyschopathic. (I don't know if that is the right word - sorry). But it feels wrong and abusive and now he is happy to share his insights with the kids as well as me.

The fact is that I am leaving. but before then, we go on holiday which cannot be rearranged. I just need to get through that.

I have decided to take out a loan to cover the initial costs of a rental then just see what can be done after that to sell the house. But getting myself and DD (and ds if he wants) away from this damaging environment has to be the priority.

DH wants me to think about the fact that DS will see this as me taking DD away and leaving him behind. He wants me to take the time to sort it out properly, but i feel like I can't live here a moment longer. it is a toxic environment. Will I destroy my son (17) for life if i just leave and give him the option of coming or staying...the longer I leave this the higher the chance H will talk me round or make me think I should stay for the kids.

My head is mush...

Please listen to people suggesting contacting Womens' Aid, and please stop assuming you're the one who has to leave. Where there are children under 18 the primary carer is usually assumed to be the one who remains in the family home. His abusive behaviour is what's brought things to this stage, and your DCs are still young and vulnerable and need a decent parent. If you leave and your son chooses to stay with his father he may be promoted to being the target of the head-fuckery.
Call in all the advice you can muster. CAB cannot give legal advice, but they should have a list of family solicitors, and sometimes individual bureaux have visiting solicitors who give free half hour sessions for initial advice.

Yet he says he is soooo happy."

yes, but you are NOT
Your daughter is NOT

This is your life, it's not a dummy run.
Get away from the cycle of manipulation. once you are out of the FOG, things will become clearer. His whole thing is narcissistic & controlling.

Stop listening to his psychobabble, his big vocabulary, It sounds so false & superior. Just makes me want to slap his egotistical chops.
me me me....... So all things being equal. you you you....

Everything Mix56 says.
This sort of behaviour towards your children (and you) is unacceptable.

You can organise a loan for rent and deposit over the phone. A rental place will take a week to sort out, minimum, so think about viewing places and signing a contract before the holiday so you can move asap afterwards.

Please don't doubt yourself anymore, it takes time to awaken when you have been so dominated & controlled.
But it isn't your imagination,
You tried to separate before & got reeled back in.
It takes several shots to break free.
The inertia is due to you questioning the reality.
Once you decide & make the necessary steps, your resolve will be stronger & stronger as you shed the shroud of his devious manipulation

Thank you for all your help. Right now I am focused on work so I can get as much money as possible and getting prepared for our holiday. So I may give the thread a break for the time being.

I have spoken to a friend today who knows the whole story. She has offered DD (and me) a place to stay if things get desperate. So if things escalate again we have somewhere to go. At least she has a place of respite where she can just "be".

I am exploring options regarding leaving or getting him to leave.

Thank you all again for such amazing support.

Please don't "assume" that DS will want to stay with H.
It's not because he had a pop at DD that he doesn't know there is a "weird" dynamic. He may wish that DD would just stop, & so that everything stays calm.
You must not assume that he wouldn't want to stay with you.
He is not the target, & like most men I expect he will just keep his head down & hope the venom goes away, or not back onto him at the very least.
Be strong.

OP, you have had good advice so far but I wanted to add something

your son, as well as your daughter, is also being abused in the role of the golden child

I agree with finding relief for your dd as a priority. She needs an emotionally safe sanctuary.
I was also thinking of your ds in that he is imprinting behavior patterns off of your H-so it would be better for him to get away from that "training". I also agree with AF regarding the golden child. That will poison the possibility of their future friendship as adults. While I do not think it is right to expect or tell ds that he needs to be there for her, I do think if the circumstances are managed on a field of neutrality, then he may arrive at the decision to support her on his own. If your ds is under the influence of your H, that will never happen, along with any wish of a healthy normal relationship with women himself.

Thank you af. I didn't know about the golden child thing. It gets worse. Dint worry my son will be encouraged to come with me. In fact I have enquired about a house two min walk from his college. He is absolutely part of the decision making process.

Had you considered that your husband could be a narcissist

Grr, pressed post by mistake

You cannot reason with and you cannot compromise with a narcissist. You have to remove yourself and your kids totally.

He does sound narcissistic. Genuinely thinks he's a great guy and can't take the blame for anything.

The thing about being married to one is that you become so involved in how he thinks that it becomes more and more difficult to extract yourself and think for yourself.

Sounds like you're doing it, though. You know you need to leave for your sanity and your children's protection.

yes, many of his traits are narcissistic - but not all. He does believe totally in his own abilities, to the point we cannot have anyone else do things at the house - he has to do everything because he does it best. yet he asks me to do things he knows i am good at. He does scapegoat our daughter - yet points out how amazing she is. I wonder if that is just to show what a great parent he is.

However, he does point out his own faults all the time - but often talks about how he is improving himself by this or that technique. I often see that as a way of suggesting i use those techniques too.

he also tells me how amazing I am quite often - but somehow it never rings true because I know he is just as likely to point out my faults.

I think maybe he is aware of narcissism and wants to avoid having that label - so he makes noises that sound like he isn't - but he can't always keep it up.

I am going to read up on dealing with a narcissist. i know NC is the best way - but hard when you have children and I really like his family (and have none of my own).

Well, narcissism is a spectrum and nobody behaves entirely predictably. Ikwym about appearing to mimic normal behaviour - I felt for years that my H could be an alien who'd observed human behaviour well enough to imitate it, but with nothing human underneath.

Anyway, the best response you can give to thoughts like those in your last post is: actually, who cares? The best way to deal with a narcissist is be very boring. And expect little. Apart from that, your aim should be to think about him as little as possible.

Good luck with the holiday. Get through it and then get away from him as quickly as you can. The trouble with analysing his behaviour is it's likely to keep you questioning if leaving is really the right thing to do. You won't be sure about that till after you've left. Leave anyway.

hello everyone - home from holiday. Actually it was remarkably nice. I spent loads of time with DD - swimming, being silly, chatting and enjoying ourselves. we had family meals out which were a success as everyone seemed to put their troubles behind them. Essentially we pretended.

On one occasion I sensed some irritation from H and asked him about it. I was told he doesn't play games any more so if there was a problem he would tell me. End of conversation - rightly put in my place...

I spent lots of time ignoring him. he hated it.

Managed to connect better with DS too. that is still tricky, but we had fun together - especially swimming as he is a poor swimmer and I attempted to teach him - with hilarious results...H just lazed on the beach, in the shade and watched the Olympics obsessively.

Now we are back things have fallen into the usual frostiness. We are hardly talking.

I noticed one important thing though. About 1 hour after walking back into the house my anxiety symptoms started again. Especially the dizziness which i hadn't noticed at all while we were away. the tight chest, the laboured breathing and the sick feeling all came back.

I have one big piece of news though. I applied and was accepted for a 0% credit card which gives me a source of funds to leave. Being a 0% card, it is cheap credit and can be paid back easily over time - as long as I am disciplined.

So nothing but me standing in my way.

You go for it if you think you can't get him out, it will cost you an awful lot financially but you know what is right for you and DD

To be honest - this house makes me physically ill. Too many memories. I don't want to live here. I want to make a fresh start somewhere new. He can sell it and give me the money. I asked him over and over if we could move and he never wanted to - so no loss for me.

Just don't have false hope that he will fight selling it etc. and giving you your money.

Sadly I think he will fight you ever step of the way but once out you can take the battles at your pace.

I have just read your OP remember and l wish you all the best with your plans for leaving. Your dd needs to know you're on her side, and you are

Your ds will know you love him, but he is old enough to choose where he wants to go. But probably not old enough to see what an arsehole your H is. But he will, in time.

are you the lady whose daughter had anxiety and you were supposed to go to london but cancelled due to this, letting your son down?

Yes that is right. But it wasn't letting d's down as it was literally doing him off. It lethusband down as he wanted a night away. I think I linked to this at the top of the thread.

Sorry. ...dropping him off....not doing. That sounded wrong!