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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

should I send H this email? unsure of self (again)

268 replies

theansweris42 · 31/07/2016 14:11

I've posted before about my H of six months. Things haven't gone as hoped. I have 2DC who love him to bits.

We have some key issues and I try to address them but in truth they are his issues - drinking and porn/not wanting sex.
And we argue about it.
Or I try to address and he ignores emails or says he won't talk.
Sometimes he does talk.
He says I am pushing and pushing and not leaving it alone and that the curent problems are down to me.

I am at the end now and have said so, but cowardice and low self esteem mean I find it so hard to just stick to it and "be the bad guy" and all his friends hating me and so on. And only married in Jan!
I know it's pathetic.

He's cried and asked me to go to Relate. We have an appontment this week.
I've confided in a couple of friends and they say go so that he can't say you didn't try.
I think I am looking for his agreement to end it Confused
Anyway we've had a discussion again this morning and he doesn't, to me, appear to be taking responsibility and I have drafted this - shall I send it??

Dear Mr42,

Before we moved in together, we agreed that one or two nights a week with no booze to be together was what we'd do so that we could strengthen our relationship and also it might help the sex life.

We agreed drinking in front of the boys to be kept to maybe once a week at pub tea etc. These two seemed to be OK for a while but since our wedding they haven't happened.

You also said you wanted to drink less and you've done that and although it is at a level very damaging for your health , I know you have made a lot of effort with the intake.

On many but not all dry nights (when it's not an early shift so in bed at 8) you tell me you feel anxious and you appear down.
Dry nights have diminished since wedding.

These are facts.

In discussion/argument you make excuses or seem to try to get away from the facts saying for example: "Well if I do a dry night you tell me I'm fucking miserable " as if I am being unreasonable, when it is a fact, you DO look miserable and you say yourself that you're anxious. I have never said that to you at the time, just tried to distract you or be there for you.

You also said you don't do dry nights because I am not supportive, but even if that were true, it's another excuse.
You feel there's "nothing you can say" to make me happy, implying that I have unilaterally decided on the above and demanded that you stick to it.

What we agreed hasn't panned out.

IMHO this is because you have an alcohol problem which persists despite your success in reducing your unit intake.

You appear compelled to put drinking before your health, our relationship and the commitment you made to be a parent to the boys.
Not always, but too much of the time.
You say you're trying but you won't get help.

The nasty words when you're drunk and the accusing me of lying to hurt your feelings and then lying to cover it up - you are saying is my fault. You slagged me off in my own house when the boys could hear some of it. Not OK.

You said you would book a counselling appointment. Now you won't, and it seems you weren't going to tell me that.

You're also now saying the no sex is my fault for being sad and "the atmosphere". That might be true now, as we have the impasse as described above.

But, from the start of our relationship you've been reluctant and say that you have not been able to think of why, saying you do want a sex life, even if your actions say something different - you have turned down kisses and my initiating sex a lot of times.

I think you prefer going solo and aren't admitting it.

We have slept in separate rooms from just a few weeks after we married - with a reason, but one that's not been investigated. I miss you and want to sleep curled up with you but given that you don't come in to me (apart from a couple of times) or work on the snoring, it appears that you're OK with the separate rooms. I have tried to come in to you but as I told you when we moved the rooms, it is hard for me to do that because I get rejected.
Last time I came in for a cuddle you actually pushed me out.

Well it is not words but change in behaviour that is needed.
I have tried and tried and tried, to talk, to not talk and give you time (which you have thanked me for, but now is forgotten) to email to give you chance to think.

I sometimes ask you to delay drinking for a while and it's a "no".
I got a book for us to read you didn't.
You said you'd plan the dry nights and other things the counsellor you went to once suggested but you haven't.

I've tried initiating intimacy and not initiating, I've tried underwear and waiting for the right moment. I've tried to understand about you liking it only when showered...I've masturbated you cos you like it even though that doesn't include me.

I have grown sadder and sometimes cross and then the problems have been blamed on me as if it'd all go away if I were nicer.

I thought I was nice and that you thought I was nice.
I am now uncomfortable around you because you're angry and blaming me.

If you do feel I am unreasonable and unpleasant I would question why you married me?

I am fucking fed up. There's promises been broken and I am now suffering acute anxiety I think, unless my arms and legs are really broken.

I am always ready to try and to take on 50% responsibility, are you? As that would look like going for help, planning the dry nights etc....

My expectations are - what we agreed about drinking or at least you getting help towards it, being treated with respect not nasty words or accused of things and a loving intimate life with my husband.

Can you be clear about what you want and what you're going to do about it?
If the answer is "nothing more" could you be honest about that?
You can have expectations of me/the relationship as well.

If these expectations of mine aren't acceptable and aren't going to happen, YOU SHOULD SAY SO.

If you still want to go to counselling we can do and that's partly why I've set this out here to help me be clear about my point of view.

If you choose not to reply again, I will assume you don't want to go into all this anymore at all

OP posts:
Memoires · 05/08/2016 20:32

You're probably right, 42. Best to be prepared for it, but to hope for the best!

theansweris42 · 05/08/2016 21:39

So now he's wanting to try, sad, tomo I'll have to say again it's over... He'll ask why won't I try...argh... It's okay, I can do it, also sad he's not at all what he represented himself to be.... He plays back conversations misquoting me or in a manner I didn't use (so sarcastic and brusque when I was in fact just asking a question) it seems to be he doesn't like me at all. Never did perhaps.
Hate this drama.

OP posts:
Hissy · 05/08/2016 22:29

Alcoholism interferes with the memory of many sufferers. They either don't remember or remember different courses of events

He will have minimised everything, like his unit count.

FantasticButtocks · 06/08/2016 00:09

You have bloody tried! He's the one who has let you both down, but his denial about what he's doing is so strong he can't actually take responsibility - so he turns it round to you. Why can't you try really means why can't you just endure this so I don't have to admit I'm an alcoholic who is ruining our marriage.

Memoires · 06/08/2016 02:24

You've been trying for a long time, when he hasn't been trying at all, is your answer to that one.

While you know that what FantasticButtocks says is true and that he doesn't mean 'try' at all, there is no point in even introducing that aspect.

theansweris42 · 06/08/2016 09:34

Stupid phone lost my long post.
I don't think he knows what would need to be done at all. I've told him, the the counsellor told him and he's still either clueless or no motivation.
I think he thinks it's still on, he's being nice and acting normal again. Argh.
I reckon this eve he'll suggest a film and a takeaway and then be annoyed that that doesn't sort it Confused
Still got up 2.5 hours after everyone else mind you.

OP posts:
MiscellaneousAssortment · 06/08/2016 22:47

His strongest desire is to deny his alcoholism, and to maintain the status who do he can carry on denying his alcoholism and force you to enable it.

I'm afraid he won't admit what he has done, and is doing. He has less motivation to do that, and a whole load of reasons why he shouldn't do that. Admit what he has done to you? To his marriage? To his family? To his future?

Nope, much better for him to carry on denying everything and manipulating you into being his punch bag and enabler. A small thing like your happiness, self esteem and wellbeing won't get in his way. It's very very sad Sad

Flowers
theansweris42 · 07/08/2016 11:22

Told him again, said I cannot do this acting normal. I said he needs to find a place. Sad

OP posts:
theansweris42 · 07/08/2016 11:24

Thank you for being there miscellaneous

OP posts:
hownottofuckup · 07/08/2016 11:45

You're doing really well OP. A close family member is an alcoholic, you're doing exactly the right thing for all concerned. Stay strong Brew

Memoires · 07/08/2016 12:06

What was his response, 42? Or maybe there wasn't one.

Youvare holding up well. One foot in front of the other; just keep doing that and you will get where you need to be.

theansweris42 · 07/08/2016 13:19

Thanks so much memoires and hownotto.
His response was to say OK he'll look, then hanging around looking sad.
I've taken DC out on bikes then made em a big lunch now taking them out again. This is going to be a tiring few weeks!!
I think he's gone back to bed now Biscuit

OP posts:
theansweris42 · 07/08/2016 13:23

Worried about not finding a house in the 4 week window...but that's just about the "right" one, there's some around, we can move again in another year

OP posts:
theansweris42 · 07/08/2016 20:34

I put DC to bed. I went down and asked again about giving notice tomorrow. He asked me to sit down, said (warm loving voice) he will "contact alcohol services" IF I will go back on antidepressants (been off them since late last year, doing well, moods not perfect but had sided effects & anyway who feels great all the time?)
He said this because he loves me apparently. I asked what my symptoms of depression are in his view. He said unwillingness to let things go, piling all the stuff with DC on myself. I said there's not much choice if he's onshift or in bed when they're about, he said he wasn't looking for an argument. I said well the answer to your question is no and I've come upstairs with a Brew
Now I am a little bit thinking have I been bad? Am I depressed again and not seeing it? But I don't think that's right.
Fucking hell.

OP posts:
theansweris42 · 07/08/2016 20:39

Forgot a "symptom" sometimes barely talking to him.

OP posts:
MiscellaneousAssortment · 07/08/2016 20:53

Oh dear 42, it must be horrible.

I'm afraid all I'm hearing is a very selfish man trying to wheedle his way out of any reasonable consequences for his own actions. And it makes me cross on your behalf that he is trying all the tricks in the book to make you stay and be the enabler to his relationship - himself and alcohol.

He's squirming and trying to pile the guilt and blame on you, rather than accepting that living with him, and his addiction is bloody misery inducing!

As an aside, my STBXH made me think it was my fault for years, my mental health, my unreasonableness in not just accepting him as he was, my selfishness not giving more and more and more to support him. Took ages to really believe it was him deliberately manipulating me into staying (& paying for everything, doing everything, caring for him all the time)... I kept thinking that maybe it was true and maybe my depression was causing all these problems, after all I would never ever say such mercenary lies to the one I loved, sooo, either he's telling the truth, or he's lying and doesn't actually love me much as well. Was easier to think it was my fault and I needed to try harder, rather than accept he didn't really love me and had no issue manipulating me in really vile ways.

That's why I recognize what's happening, all a bit familiar. Suspect it's part of a familiar script most addicted men go through. Btw, his was gambling, not alcohol.

And lastly... It's a lot easier to deal with mental health issues when you're in a better situation. So you shouldn't stay just because of that ... That pathetic excuse he's given you!

And feeling depressed is a perfectly reasonable reaction to an upsetting and ongoing situation. That's normal. Don't let him kid you it's not.

Flowers
MiscellaneousAssortment · 07/08/2016 21:02

He's going for a negotiation of sorts isn't he?

I'll admit I have issues with alcohol, if you agree to shoulder blame in another way. Look we're equal, wow!

Hold fast.

And maybe counselling would really help you at the moment, but not as a way to make you take blame and responsibility for change that lies squarely at his door! A sop to help his ego in some way. Not any of that. Definitely not! But counselling or maybe antiDs if they work for you, as a way to get through a big and very sad change in your life...

notapizzaeater · 07/08/2016 21:02

He's just trying to take the spotlight off him, by making you the 'bad' guy it can't be his problem

theansweris42 · 07/08/2016 21:08

Thanks miscellaneous again.
All you say rings true. Is almost seems bloody sinister of him to say that!
And it's a trigger for me as the long EA relationship with DC father was the reason I was ever on them anyway. Which H knows.
I don't need anti-d. Or, I won't evaluate or ask for advice on that even til I'm not living with H plus alcohol.
Still feels shit though and I have to start again fighting off all the avalanche of negative thoughts about myself which lurk around always, especially in relation to relationships and being a mum.
I'm OK at work Wink

OP posts:
theansweris42 · 07/08/2016 21:12

X posted. Yes it is a negotiation tactic.
I'm not entering into it.
God he is going to make this hard.
notapizza I think you're right...

OP posts:
FantasticButtocks · 08/08/2016 00:19

It is all part of his denial. Classic alcoholic. Not taking responsibility for it for himself, only if you do something he's thought up wanting you to do, as if yes we've both got issues we need to sort, minimising his ALCOHOLISM. Don't enter into negotiation. If he wants to address his addiction then he must do it. Whatever you do or don't do.

theansweris42 · 08/08/2016 08:25

Feel so sad about it all.
Angry too.
Angry that I have to do normal for the DC and not just smash his face I'm for chucking the future away. And then blaming my mental state!

OP posts:
Naicehamshop · 08/08/2016 10:19

Good luck - stay strong OP. You are doing really well, be kind to yourself. Flowers

theansweris42 · 08/08/2016 10:29

Thanks naice

OP posts:
Memoires · 08/08/2016 16:39

Hold fast, 42, stand firm. Most normal people respond to the statement of a problem with the agreement to sort it, now. They don't say "only if you do x"; it's a dead giveaway to the lack of responsibility and the determination to continue the problematic behaviour no matter what. At least, that's my experience. Also "I am trying" generally means they're not trying at all; I can see why my teachers used to sometimes say with exasperation "don't try! DO". Grin

You're pretty impressive in the way you recognise what he's doing and are able to analyse it immediately. It is clear you are a way away from him now, which is sad I know, but will make things a little easier in the long run.