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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

should I send H this email? unsure of self (again)

268 replies

theansweris42 · 31/07/2016 14:11

I've posted before about my H of six months. Things haven't gone as hoped. I have 2DC who love him to bits.

We have some key issues and I try to address them but in truth they are his issues - drinking and porn/not wanting sex.
And we argue about it.
Or I try to address and he ignores emails or says he won't talk.
Sometimes he does talk.
He says I am pushing and pushing and not leaving it alone and that the curent problems are down to me.

I am at the end now and have said so, but cowardice and low self esteem mean I find it so hard to just stick to it and "be the bad guy" and all his friends hating me and so on. And only married in Jan!
I know it's pathetic.

He's cried and asked me to go to Relate. We have an appontment this week.
I've confided in a couple of friends and they say go so that he can't say you didn't try.
I think I am looking for his agreement to end it Confused
Anyway we've had a discussion again this morning and he doesn't, to me, appear to be taking responsibility and I have drafted this - shall I send it??

Dear Mr42,

Before we moved in together, we agreed that one or two nights a week with no booze to be together was what we'd do so that we could strengthen our relationship and also it might help the sex life.

We agreed drinking in front of the boys to be kept to maybe once a week at pub tea etc. These two seemed to be OK for a while but since our wedding they haven't happened.

You also said you wanted to drink less and you've done that and although it is at a level very damaging for your health , I know you have made a lot of effort with the intake.

On many but not all dry nights (when it's not an early shift so in bed at 8) you tell me you feel anxious and you appear down.
Dry nights have diminished since wedding.

These are facts.

In discussion/argument you make excuses or seem to try to get away from the facts saying for example: "Well if I do a dry night you tell me I'm fucking miserable " as if I am being unreasonable, when it is a fact, you DO look miserable and you say yourself that you're anxious. I have never said that to you at the time, just tried to distract you or be there for you.

You also said you don't do dry nights because I am not supportive, but even if that were true, it's another excuse.
You feel there's "nothing you can say" to make me happy, implying that I have unilaterally decided on the above and demanded that you stick to it.

What we agreed hasn't panned out.

IMHO this is because you have an alcohol problem which persists despite your success in reducing your unit intake.

You appear compelled to put drinking before your health, our relationship and the commitment you made to be a parent to the boys.
Not always, but too much of the time.
You say you're trying but you won't get help.

The nasty words when you're drunk and the accusing me of lying to hurt your feelings and then lying to cover it up - you are saying is my fault. You slagged me off in my own house when the boys could hear some of it. Not OK.

You said you would book a counselling appointment. Now you won't, and it seems you weren't going to tell me that.

You're also now saying the no sex is my fault for being sad and "the atmosphere". That might be true now, as we have the impasse as described above.

But, from the start of our relationship you've been reluctant and say that you have not been able to think of why, saying you do want a sex life, even if your actions say something different - you have turned down kisses and my initiating sex a lot of times.

I think you prefer going solo and aren't admitting it.

We have slept in separate rooms from just a few weeks after we married - with a reason, but one that's not been investigated. I miss you and want to sleep curled up with you but given that you don't come in to me (apart from a couple of times) or work on the snoring, it appears that you're OK with the separate rooms. I have tried to come in to you but as I told you when we moved the rooms, it is hard for me to do that because I get rejected.
Last time I came in for a cuddle you actually pushed me out.

Well it is not words but change in behaviour that is needed.
I have tried and tried and tried, to talk, to not talk and give you time (which you have thanked me for, but now is forgotten) to email to give you chance to think.

I sometimes ask you to delay drinking for a while and it's a "no".
I got a book for us to read you didn't.
You said you'd plan the dry nights and other things the counsellor you went to once suggested but you haven't.

I've tried initiating intimacy and not initiating, I've tried underwear and waiting for the right moment. I've tried to understand about you liking it only when showered...I've masturbated you cos you like it even though that doesn't include me.

I have grown sadder and sometimes cross and then the problems have been blamed on me as if it'd all go away if I were nicer.

I thought I was nice and that you thought I was nice.
I am now uncomfortable around you because you're angry and blaming me.

If you do feel I am unreasonable and unpleasant I would question why you married me?

I am fucking fed up. There's promises been broken and I am now suffering acute anxiety I think, unless my arms and legs are really broken.

I am always ready to try and to take on 50% responsibility, are you? As that would look like going for help, planning the dry nights etc....

My expectations are - what we agreed about drinking or at least you getting help towards it, being treated with respect not nasty words or accused of things and a loving intimate life with my husband.

Can you be clear about what you want and what you're going to do about it?
If the answer is "nothing more" could you be honest about that?
You can have expectations of me/the relationship as well.

If these expectations of mine aren't acceptable and aren't going to happen, YOU SHOULD SAY SO.

If you still want to go to counselling we can do and that's partly why I've set this out here to help me be clear about my point of view.

If you choose not to reply again, I will assume you don't want to go into all this anymore at all

OP posts:
Hissy · 01/08/2016 16:54

My love, it's not that he doesn't care. It's that he can't control his drinking. His drinking is controlling him.

He is in the grip of an addiction. To stop that habit terrifies him to his very core.

Sadly to let you down, go back on his promises to you are far easier for him to contemplate. "If you knew how it made him feel to think about not drinking, you'd understand" that's the disordered thinking.

Anorexics and addicts will do anything to protect and be alone with their addiction, it's the addiction isolating them. The addiction is literally fighting for its own survival.

You are the lesser of the two evils. He can't stand up to the addiction, it's too powerful, too deeply seated and he probably doesn't even know why he is drinking to excess. He doesn't know his triggers and is still in denial.he probably made those promises in all expectation that he could live up to them. He tried and he was consumed by fear/misery/shame (whatever it is at the seat of his addiction)

Please don't take on this blame, don't make the addiction about him not loving you. You'll destroy yourself.

You do need to leave him. He needs to see what this is doing to him and perhaps find his rock bottom.

I think if you do go to relate, take the letter and have the counsellor read it and discuss it, but only because that's going through his motions.

He thinks you have a marriage problem. He'd rather that than have to tackle his alcohol problem.

FoggyBottom · 01/08/2016 16:58

AlAnon is for you not him - that's Alcoholics Anonymous. Whether he admits he's alcohol-dependent is his business. Al Anon is for supporting those connected/around alcoholics.

So often it's the alcoholic who sucks the oxygen out of the room - AlAnon gives you a bit of breathing space. It's nothing to do with him: it's for you.

FantasticButtocks · 01/08/2016 17:10

I know a couple who are very happy now. He is a recovering alcoholic who has not had a drink for nearly 20 years. The DW was at the end of her tether with his drinking. They had one DC. They also didn't have a functioning sex life. She went to Al Anon first. From what she learned there, she one day left their home with the dc, leaving her DH a note. It was along the lines of - you are an alcoholic and your drinking is ruining our lives. There is a place for you on the twelve-step program at blah. If you want to continue our marriage and family life you will get yourself there and when I know you're there, dc and I will visit you when that is allowed (think he had to have been in the place a good four weeks before his family could visit) If you choose not to do this dc and I are gone and the marriage is over.

He was at rock bottom then, because his dw had left and taken the much-loved dc. He did it. Went to the place, stopped drinking. It was very, very hard and I think they were separate for three or four months while he got sorted at this clinic.

They are still both very committed to the whole thing, still I think attend aa and Al anon, he volunteers on a phone line one night a week to help alcoholics. They were and are totally open with their child about the whole thing throughout. And open with everyone. But they still take one day at a time and I'm sure it's been very hard. They later went for sex therapy and that worked too. Both were committed, totally and utterly to the recovery of their family life, their child, each other.
So it can work out. But the dw had to see first that she simply wasn't going to live with it anymore. She had to take a stand and mean what she said. He didn't want to be without her, and somehow that overrode his absolute need for alcohol. (I think their dc was about two years old when dw left with her.)

theansweris42 · 01/08/2016 18:22

adora thank you for your story and your insights. We do love each other and it is going to be horrendous doing the leaving him. But I see it's the only course of action. He IS functioning/working/sociable/clever and I'm sure thinks I'm hugely overplaying this.
hissy I've said to him about sticking his head in the sand and not facing things, I realise now it's just not possible at this time, and not with me doing the pointing things out. And thank you for your words about it not being that he doesn't love me, but that the addiction is bigger.
foggy thanks I do need headspace. I went to al anon a while back. It's hard to go with work and the DC but I'll try and find a meeting near work.
buttocks the commitment they've shown is amazing!
Thank you

OP posts:
Asuitablemum · 01/08/2016 21:14

You could send the whole e-mail. I think it is well written and explains everything. Or you could send a shorter one and maybe say you have a longer explanation/brain dump of how you feel if he would like to understand further how you feel.

I think a short one would say something like. I am sorry but i need to prioritise myself and my children and need to end our relationship. Since we married I have realised the full extent of your drinking and promises to stop have been broken. I am not able to commit to a life with a partner who drinks so much and I feel that as well as being a bad influence to my children it also prevents intimacy. I am sorry to hurt you so soon after we married, I loved you and wanted to believe that the drinking would stop, as it did go down when we were engaged, but I now see that you are not yet committed to ending the drinking.

J0bchang3 · 01/08/2016 21:20

Sometimes words are not enough, you need actions !

I think you should end the relationship and file for divorce asap

Prioritize looking after yourself and the children with 100% of your energy

He will not change under the current circumstances and you have already given him too many chances

theansweris42 · 01/08/2016 21:52

Thanks suitable that's a brill summary of the situation.
And I think is what's needed as I have tried so many times to communicate to him, he's not listening so why keep explaining ?

JOb I definitely agree all this energy being spent on this should be directed to caring for myself and for DC

OP posts:
theansweris42 · 01/08/2016 21:54

He has gone from work tonight to stay at a friends'.
They'll have loads of drinks and talk.
It's nice just not having the possibility of cross words or more circular conversations....

OP posts:
readyforno2 · 01/08/2016 22:47

If you are going to go to relate, I definitely think you need to print off the email and take it with you. It's very well written and comes straight from the heart.
I'm a very emotional person and can be easily overcome in difficult/charged situations and often forget things that I've wanted to say, writing things down works well for me. Although you sound very strong, so maybe that's not as much of an issue for you.

theansweris42 · 02/08/2016 06:49

Thanks ready, I'm thinking of still going to go through the motions.
I'm not feeling strong, writing it all out helps me to at least think more clearly.
I'm devastated that this is happening.

OP posts:
theansweris42 · 02/08/2016 17:11

He says he's measured and drinks about 50 units per week.
I know it's average 100.
He says how would I know, he's the one drinking it and he's measured.
Hes adamant!
There's no point to this conversation, I just have to say whatever the units are, the issues are many and he's not been able to make the changes.
Right. Got it.

OP posts:
FoggyBottom · 02/08/2016 19:28

He's taking up too much of your head space. Detach, detach, detach.

TBH, I can't see the point of going to Relate with him - maybe it would be useful if the counsellor helps you to detach from the alcoholic drama.

theansweris42 · 02/08/2016 21:47

foggy thanks, we just had another conversation and although same old stuff, I was thinking of detach detach detach and it was slightly easier for me, on the inside Iyswim.

OP posts:
Memoires · 02/08/2016 23:22

50's too many anyway, but you're right, it's pointless.

Start getting your ducks in a row, love. I'm sorry it's come to this. And keep remembering, you didn't cause it, you can't cure it, you can't control it.

You can save yourself and your children from it.

OutToGetYou · 03/08/2016 09:34

Have you considered individual counselling?

newname99 · 03/08/2016 09:54

His drinking isn't a problem to him but you have every right to want a different life.

Your email is so sad. You are so deep into the life with an alcoholiic that you can't see what normal is.

I left (with dc) a charming alcoholic and never once regretted it.My dc are now adult and successful and also so grateful I left.Ex is still a big drinker despite all the problems and broken relationships it has caused him.

Please find the strength to leave, do it for your boys.You will be showing them a different and better way to live.You can do it.

0dfod · 03/08/2016 10:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

theansweris42 · 03/08/2016 12:25

memoires thank you yes I am still looking at houses and trying to save up.
out yes I have had some - I agree this would help me but with the DC it's "when?"..I will look at for Sept when they're back at school.
new agree - he is so sure this is OK and he is trying and doing some things differently so why am I still talking about it? And I know it's not right for me and DSs. I am very sad inside this relationship.
One of my own issues is that I will be blamed for leaving "unjustifiably and even though he is trying".
0dfod I don't think he will be at that point (therapy) for a long time. Last night he said it would be very unfair if I asked him to stop for the sake of the family.

OP posts:
theansweris42 · 03/08/2016 13:04

just putting this down.
Yesterday I text to ask if he was going to reply to or speak about my email. He texted we'd speak in the eve.
We sat and ate and he said nothing for ages, then "I am trying with the drink you now". Then a long conv about units (yawn).
When I disagreed with his estimate there was the annoyed face and "well if you are just going to disagree" as if he would end the conversation.
I asked why he was becoming angry he said I am the most frustrating person he has even known.
I pointed out that (a) his estimate might be wrong (b) I am allowed to disagree.
I asked him what about the other issues.
He said no sex because he feels no connection with me because I have been quiet and/or we have been falling out. This quietness/sadness/ getting on with stuff with DC makes him feel rejected.
I said acting normal and him calling me "baby" AND TOUCHING ME when he constantly rejects me, does the drinking and then gets cross with me feels like him minimising and expecting me to just accept everything and not mention it and not to expect replies or even an acknowledgement as he is "no good at emails".
He said if I could "be happy with him" that would make it all OK.
Sigh.
I am getting there.

OP posts:
Mymouthgetsmeintrouble · 03/08/2016 13:14

I wouldnt and i wouldnt go to relate either hes an alcoholic and its not good for your children to be around this , once you seperate he has a choice to carry on drinking and lose you or go to rehab , completely stop drinking and with time you can then work on a relationship if you want to , sorry but hes not going to change because hes got an addiction

OutToGetYou · 03/08/2016 13:27

Units is a red herring, he needs to stop totally.

CalleighDoodle · 03/08/2016 14:10

The no sex is punishment for you.

Stop wasting time on this selfish man.

theansweris42 · 03/08/2016 14:14

Out he's stated he won't although I didn't say I wanted that because I actually don't want to then hang around while he tries to and is resentful.
doodle I have wondered about this Sad but also Angry

OP posts:
theansweris42 · 03/08/2016 15:01

I have booked 3 nights away just me and the DC next weekend. that'll be nice [happy]

OP posts:
theansweris42 · 03/08/2016 15:02

oops, meant Smile

OP posts:
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