Feeling stifled by parents 'love' - need to set firm boundaries. LONG!!

[BusyHomemaker]

I don't really know where to start with this as there is a lot of background but I shall give it a go.

I am at a point in my adult life whereby I have finally snapped and realised that I need to establish some strong boundaries for my parents (and possibly whole family) otherwise my emotional well being will suffer. They have always been generous, loving parents who would drop everything to help me if needed. I have always had the unsettling feeling that they live their lives through their offspring (now all in our 30s) and I don't see how this is a healthy dynamic for anyone involved. Despite being the oldest, my parents have always been more relaxed with their rules for my brother and sister. I still feel that I am expected to tow the line. I always consider their feelings in everything I do, which is crazy! I am my own person but I can't seem to gain the independence that I crave.

There is a lot of background to this but briefly, I left my exH over four years ago due to EA, I was at a real low point emotionally and suffered terrible anxiety. I worked hard to rebuild my life and my confidence and following a 2yr course of citalopram (which I've been off for 18m) and two courses of counselling, I better understand myself and have been feeling stronger than ever for well over a year. I'm in a great relationship and have a job which I enjoy. DD is happy and I am so proud of her. On the outside it looks like I have a fabulous relationship with my family but it is just stifling. People always comment on how close we are but the truth is we a much to close. We have a facebook messaging group ffs! I never meant to settle in my home town but we are here and so the only way to create some distance with my family is to set some firm boundaries. I know what needs to be done but I feel so guilty about hurting my parents feelings. I feel like a pathetic child right now!

During my counselling I confided that I found my parents to be controlling and stifling and my counselor told me these are really strong words. I was so confused that I had ended up with an EA man but delving a little deeper I realised that DF (who can be incredibly engaging and lovely most of the time) has at times displayed these characteristics to my DM. At that time he was making her miserable but they've since worked it out. He can be controlling and this past year I have realised that he tries to manipulate me on all of my decisions.... everything from how to maintain my garden to my fertility! And I know he is aware he is doing it, I just don't think that he's realised that I am now aware of it too. My mother is excellent at laying on the guilt to the point where she practically pleads with me to do things her way. They are not constantly like this, they also dish out the praise... a little OTT sometimes. This is lacking a lot of detail but I just want to give an overview without losing anyone!

I am aware of my own faults in all of this. They are very involved with DD and she adores them. I do speak with them too often, mainly updates on DD, and I realise I depend on them emotionally. The thing is I often come away from our conversation feeling guilty or stressed. A bit like a child who hasn't had the opportunity to explain themselves properly! I am a classic people pleaser but it's gone too far for too long.

My sister can be a real b@tch. She has done some really rotten things to me in the past, like sabotage important life events, humiliated me in front of my friends and lectured me on my life choices.... "you are still in rented accommodation because of your poor life choices not because you were in an EA marriage and had to start again" was a classic! My friends and DP don't like her and don't understand why I keep in touch. I do it because my parents have literally pleaded with me "it's so important that sisters are friends, please get on with her it's so important for you and for us that you get along. If you don't get on it will break our hearts. We've invested too much.... I've been losing sleep over this." My counselor explained we are opposite people and I relayed this to my mother but to no avail. She seems to be in cahoots with them at the mo, which is not the status quo as she has really hurt them in the past. It's her talent!

My brother has just returned from a year away... literally turned up with his wife on parents doorstep one afternoon while everyone thought they were still on the other side of the planet!? I've spoken with him a couple of times since, in attempt to arrange to meet up and I was told "I'm busy for the next week pretend I'm not here!" It was a bit abrupt but I respected his wishes. The next night my sister and her family were round my parents with my brother and his wife for a BBQ that my family wasn't invited to. Without going into details (this is already an essay) it was clearly orchestrated by my sister to leave me out. I'm used to her doing this but I've always been close to my brother so this one hurt. God this seems so petty!

I expressed my feelings that my family should have been invited us and clearly that was a mistake because I've gone against the tribe! DB and DS haven't spoken with me and I received an incredibly patronising and manipulative email from parents demanding an apology. So far this seems incredibly petty but I'll now get to the point...

I am involved in a very serious court case at the moment. It's been going on for a year. I stopped contact between DD and ex-H as her behaviour became increasingly challenging and she seemed drained and emotionally exhausted for days following contact. Aware of exH's EA and MH issues I don't take chances. At this time his then Girlf contacted me (we had met once) for help as he was abusing her and she was scared. She needed advice. She contacted the police. It was very serious harassment and manipulation. I took DD to GP to see nurse for check over due to concerns over EA and she had an infection down below. Nurse told me she had been sexually abused. This is a parents worst nightmare. We were referred to SS and DP (my rock) and I stayed strong and did what we had to do. Of course I updated my parents and eventually sis and bro. Parents have been supportive but it's been hard on them. ExH took me to court over contact, we've been battling it out since last summer. I was advised to drop allegations of sexual harm due to lack of evidence (non of the professionals were willing to provide statements), which I did but I haven't dropped allegations of EA. They now have contact supported by family. It's a very complex case and been incredibly testing but I have managed to stay strong (I've had my wobbles) and maintain stability for DD. Throughout the process I have continued to feel undermined by my parents need to take over to the point where they are adding stress. We have the penultimate hearing this week, the other side are asking for unsupervised overnights. I told my parents I am contesting the cafcass report, applying for a full psychological analysis and hiring a barrister for the final hearing. They know money is tight due to legal fees. The email they sent told me they expected an apology for the other day, that I shouldn't take my stress out on those who love me unconditionally and they are going to provide "a little bit of money to secure the best future for DD. We will cover the cost of everything." That's thousands of pounds, not a little bit of money. I was fuming! I didn't ask for money and they know it's my archilies heal.

They sent me another message the following day asking if DD and I wanted to stay over. I replied that I needed some space. They then sent further messages at 1am (they stay up drinking most nights and get themselves worked up about all sorts of issues) demanding information that they could have googled themselves. They then told me they are going to pay for Barrister. "You don't have that kind of money." I thanked them for their offer but told them I couldn't accept. They told me they wanted to help. I told them "Don't worry, I am handling it". "Don't push us away!" It's just too much. Why can't they just give me some space.

This probably doesn't make them seem as bad as I feel that they are. They are stifling me at a point in my life where I very much need to act like a grown up. How do I get them to understand this? I'm at breaking point with our relationship but don't want to hurt them.

wish your family sound dreadful

It's crazy that I've only pulled back slightly and DM and DS are trying to reel me back in. The messages from either parent whenever I 'step out of line' are always on behalf of both on them. I've been feeling uneasy ever since their BBQ, which was only Thursday, ha ha.

I need to stop worrying about it. In a truly loving and equal relationship one person shouldn't be feeling guilty all of the time. I just wish I could end this cycle... you're right, it is so important for DD.

You need to read Toxic Parents by Susan Forward. Like, today!

Also you mention their drinking. Being the child of a drinker can affect people profoundly too, especially relating to boundaries and emotional abuse.

Laura It's interesting that you say that! Their drinking bothers me, especially DFs. He considers himself to be a high functioning alcoholic and almost seems proud of this. He never drinks in the day but come 6pm he'll have two or three beers (downs the last one!), a glass of wine or two with his meal, several more beers followed by a 'night cap' of something much stronger. He often falls asleep in his arm chair and wakes up at the crack of dawn, takes himself off to bed to sleep until breakfast time. That's not normal is it?

He once told me in my early twenties that addiction (drinking and gambling) ran in the family and that I had the alcoholic gene. He could see it in me. To be fair I partied a lot in my twenties but partly because I felt lost and partly because I knew that some day I would need to grow up so I'd better get it out of my system. I persued many interests and activities in my twenties and lived for the moment. I'm certainly not an alcoholic, I do enjoy a glass of wine with dinner but not every day and I switch to tea afterwards. It's always been at the back of my mind though because of what DF said. IT scared me tbh.

Funnily enough, nowadays if I drink more than two glasses of wine it's when I'm at my parents... it's kind of encouraged! It's always been a bit of a joke but now I'm wondering if it's actually not funny at all.

I read Toxic Parents on Thursday and found the chapter regarding controlling parents really interesting with regards to my situation. I've ordered another book called "If you had controlling parents" by Dan Neuharth.

A couple of people on this thread have suggested that I am the scapegoat of the family. I wonder if it's a possibility but I don't consider either of my parents to be narcissists. I'm hoping the book will help.

Interesting stuff! So many parallels with my own life too. ALCOA (adult children of alcoholics) would be a good place to look.

Alcoholics have problems with boundaries as their inhibitions and clarity are removed. My father used to think it was fine to call me, pissed, crying down the phone, or rambling on about something, regardless of whether it upset me or not. He probably couldn't remember. And I put up with it for a long time because I felt I had to - he's my dad and clearly in some sort of pain, so being a dutiful daughter, the least I could do was listen???

That left me with a legacy of having no real idea of what was normal, or selfish behaviour.

He too would encourage me to drink heavily, and would call me "miserable" if I didn't. It's taken me well into my 40s to work out how bollocks it all is.

how horrifically your parents/family treat you.

Yes you need to put in very very very firm boundaries and protect DD from their EA ways.

Sisters need to get on so long as its you doing ALL the compromising.

You are best off out of it tbh.

OP, I would back away from the whole 'personality disorders', 'toxic' and 'narcissist' rhetoric, which is bandied about wholesale, sells an awful lot of books, and is not ultimately a huge amount of use, unless you've written the book and get royalties.

Your relationship with your parents is making you unhappy, and, to be honest, they sound awful. Whether you call that love or not is up to you, but it's clear the only change is going to come from you, and is going to have to involve more distance put between you, less emotional reliance on them, and less availability. And you're going to have to stop feeling guilty about changing your role. Why, given that you have a happy and supportive relationship now, and had the guts and determination to get out of a bad marriage - and are being a complete trooper of stability in the awful abuse situation with your daughter and ex - is their good opinion still so important to you? Why see so much of them? Do you have good friends who can be a distraction and emotional crutch as well as your DP?

And I do not think that nice people would make their financial help for legal representation to prevent their granddaughter having overnights with someone their daughter suspects has abused her contingent upon an apology. That is the behaviour of appalling people.

busyhomemaker my parents are almost tea total (sp?) but they also do that thing where they are a UNIT when they want to reinforce how right they are and how wrong I am. Recently I rejected some of my Dad's advice and I was polite about it the first three times then I ended up hanging up on him. He came round to my house and I told him I hadn't changed my mind and I didn't want his advice and I shut the door and didn't let him in. Then, he and my mother joined forces in a way that seemed reasonable to them, ie, you upset your father you upset me. So they were both frosty with me. They were a unit in their indignation and their self-righteousness. I felt this was wrong and unfair because it wasn't as though I had attacked one of them, and the other spouse was (understandably) backing him/her up. Nope, that would be fair enough, but they misinterpret that reasonable normal behaviour and what they tend to do is to heavily persuade/advise/dissuade me and then when I get annoyed with one of them for overwhelming me and ignoring my boundaries, then the other one gets annoyed with me too!!

I feel they have taken something very normal (ie, a spouse backing his/her other half up) and abused its intention. One will come at me with a ''suggestion'' and then if I don't capitulate, I get the tank with both of them on board coming towards me. So it feels. Each annoyed with me for having upset the other.

You can't win.

I agree with the pp's point that if they have said that their offer of financial help for legal representation (to prevent their granddaughter having overnights with somebody who abused her) is contingent on your apology to them, that is appalling .

laura is there a book that's more of a middle ground? rather than toxic parents, is there a book called 'parents who have no time for psychology and who completely lack self-awareness and who were a bit damaged by their own parents' neglect and who did the best they could but still turned their eldest dd in to a people pleaser with a low self-esteem?

My parents don't set out to plunder me like a resource. They aren't narcissists. But perhaps they do lack a bit of theory of mind. They genuinely don't seem to grasp that differentiation between me and them. I am not being awkward when I reject their advice. I am not being disrespectful or ungrateful to want to be able to lie in my bed in my house and know that my parents won't let themselves in. I would like to be grateful, precisely and exactly grateful in a way that is sincerely and absolute gratitude without that getting muddied up in their confusion between obedience and gratitude. It's a genuine misunderstanding and lack of awareness on their part. Honestly. They aren't toxic. They were both the youngest of big families. Their parents were all dead by the time they were 30 (ish) so they have no understanding of what it feels like to be in your 40s, trying to be an adult, trying to be respected as an adult and just being made to feel like a disrespectful ungrateful child in a situation where there's a disagreement.

I understand that for some people their parents are toxic, narcissistic, selfish.... but my parents, their lack of respect for their kids' boundaries comes from a lack of insight, no understanding of people's desire to grow and change and become more self-aware... never having been an adult with parents as equals, their fear of the world I'm living in, sexism, lack of faith in me, stuck in the past and not updating their view of me.

So a book that tackled a more middle ground would be really useful I think.

I think those books can be helpful when you are finally realising that they are the problem, not you.

Ultimately, it really doesn't matter if the offender is your boyfriend, your boss, your mum, your mate or a random bloke in a pub. The actions are the same: choose your boundaries then absolutely enforce those boundaries, to the point of walking away if you have to.

It really is that simple. Not easy of course. Enforcement is hard if you are a well-trained people-pleaser or rescuer.

It takes ages to re-train yourself to react correctly when a person like your DF is pissed off with you when you act according to your own wishes. Just leave them there being pissed off. Do nothing to "fix" it. Nothing. At. All.

Hi OP,

I'm chipping in because I've got the Dan Neuharth book and found it to be one of the best, no-nonsense self-help books I've ever read. I found myself nodding at certain chapters and the advice at the end is very good. In short, you have to start saying no and not allowing the guilt of saying no to consume you. Easier said than done but it becomes easier with practice.

Unfortunately, I found myself nodding at some of your OP. Like you my parents use money as a controlling tool. My father in particular is emotionally abusive and was physically abusive when I was a child. I see him in particular as a pathetic little man now - so terrified of life he has to control everyone and everything and when anyone points out how awful he is, he bursts into tears. Nothing he does works with me any longer. 'No' is a full sentence. I apologise if I feel I have done something wrong. I've told my mother to stop running interference for him. He can talk to me himself if he wants rather than stropping and shouting at her and telling her to shout at me for him IYSWIM.

I'm 38 now. It has taken a long time to get to this point but it comes gradually.

Just for clarity, I have no siblings. Just my parents which is unfortunate or fortunate depending on which way the wind is blowing and I don't have to deal with the rather awful circumstances in which you find yourself concerning your ex and DD. She and your DP are your main concern now. Try not to give your family headspace. Once they can't get at you emotionally, the weight you feel will lift. They might always be batshit but hopefully, their impact on you and your life will lessen as you get used to saying no, meaning it and absolving yourself of any guilt for not towing their line.

I congratulate you on enforcing your boundaries at 'only' 38!

I am struggling with the 'do nothing to fix their outrage' part. I seem to put myself up in the dock defending my right to say no. That's the part i need to leave. in the future, and the 'future' has started already since I've become aware.... i'm going to just do what i'm gonna do and not run it past them!

When they find out and react with disapproval I'll just keep schtumn and say NOTHING.

When they find out and react with disapproval I'll just keep schtumn and say NOTHING

Absolutely right. This kind of thing is what I meant about not giving them headspace and detaching emotionally. I still think to myself, oh they won't like this but it's my life not theirs.

I also just say things like, 'that's my concern and not yours'. I'm known as stroppy but I couldn't give a shit, I won't be manipulated.

Oh and at 38 I'm a work in progress, I do get upset sometimes but I'm stubborn so I won't give in.

Reply to your mum's "I love you message" with "I know you love me mum but I do not forgive you and certainly not db for excluding us from this barbecue. Leave me alone for a few days, I will ignore each and every message. And, for the last time, I do not want your money."

Get ANGRY!! come on!

I cracked and replied to my mum last night just to say I love you too. I didn't want her working herself up over it. None of them have apologised for the BBQ yet, not even DB which is incredibly disappointing.

I have often taken a step back from my family to ask myself whether they are as lovely as they project themselves to be. In some ways yes but I think as individuals they are all incredibly self centered. I need to stop caring and start setting boundaries.

It's interesting to read other's experiences, especially as age doesn't seem to be a factor when it comes to controlling parents.

For those of you who have started to take control, do you mind sharing how long it took for your families to take the message? Have you successfully managed to change your role and establish a more fulfilling, adult to adult relationship with your parents, or is limiting contact the only way to handle this?

For me, massively limiting contact, which I absolutely didn't want to do, initially, really was the only way. Mine also do that "together" thing. One of them behaved absolutely outrageously, and knew it and yet both stood firm in their freezing me out, for daring to voice complaint about it.

It's been 8 months since I drew a line. I'm healthier, sleep better and am far more confident in my decisions. I've had a begrudging apology, and pressure from my golden sibling to make nice but I've stood firm, for the first time ever. It's sad. But I realise I miss what I thought they were, not the terrible et disrespectful way they treated me.

They have been using FB to subtly make contact so I may have to discreetly take some time. I updated my status, as I often do and DM, DF and DS have all commented on it. I've ignored it which means I have also had to ignore my friends. It may seem sad but I have friends and extended family dotted all over the place so I really do get a lot out of FB. They've also all been messaging our group so I purposely haven't read the messages. I think I may have to actually do a FB detox ! I don't quite feel strong enough to do this though.... due to guilt.

laura It sounds like you've successfully laid down some boundaries with your family. I'm not sure how to handle big events, such as births, birthdays, weddings, which are all coming up but I can certainly start small.

In a way, I wish I could just sit them down and tell them how I feel.

Sorry to keep updating but I guess I need to get this all out.

DM has called again twice and sent me a message asking what is wrong. So I have told her! Not in a cruel way but just highlighting the exclusion, horrific email and the fact that I asked for space and have been bombarded with messages and missed calls ever since. I told her I needed to have a long hard think.

Immediately I have received a text from DS asking what is going on.

This is so hard. I can't see a way forward without trying to get them to understand that they shouldn't treat me this way. I don't want to fall out with my parents but I can't carry on like this.

I haven't been able to stop shaking since I sent DM the message.

Sigh.

I hope they don't put themselves up on the cross now. Countering with a long list of your flaws and the pain you have caused them with x,y &z.

Don't say any more now.

What little you've said will have some chance of having impact if you don't get drawn in to a longer conversation which, when they look back on it, will be just remembered as six of one and half a dozen of the other.

Put your phone out of reach now.

"In a way, I wish I could just sit them down and tell them how I feel"

I wish that too but it would only be construed as awkwardness, making a point (no thought given to why I need to make a point. for my family, the perceived drama of making a point is what brings down condemnation. The reason you felt you needed to make the point? never considered beyond ''you're too sensitive'')

Look, you can't and never will be able to control their behaviour. Having them apologise profusely for everything and put you on a pedestal is a nice fantasy, but it's a fantasy, and boy, have they done a number on you which keeps you running after them while they belittle and manipulate you. Why is their disapproval so blighting to you? Why are you reassuring someone who is behaving so badly that you love her anyway, thereby reinforcing that she is rewarded with unchanged love for bed behaviour?

Don't answer your sister. It doesnt sound like she will help at all in this situation, from what you've said about her before.

Take the time you need. Ask them to respect your need for space. If you have to, pare it down to "please respect my request" and repeat ad infinitum.

For what it's worth, your family sounds close but so close you can't inhale without taking in someone else's exhaled breath. It sounds incredibly oppressive. It's normal to want sufficent space as an adult. It's not a bad thing. It's a good thing, because you have to live your own life!

What engulfing people forget is that genuine love gives space for the loved one to grow and breath ... and it does not go in for emotional blackmail like "sisters should always be the best of friends". That's a mother's dream, but not always possible.

So sorry u have so much on your plate. No use at all regarding the family - I am an only child who deliberately binned her odd parents to save my sanity some years ago. I would like to address the cafcass issue. Been there with them and it didn't go well - for them. I personally (not my costly barrister) picked so many holes in their report I could have strained pg tips through it. Please please do the same. . The senior cafcass dude admitted on the stand at the final hearing - after 4 years of sheer hell - that he had based his entire report on info he had gained from my ex!! Not the impartial legal guardian of my kids he was supposed to be!! (because I was so adamant he wasn't having contact as they weren't his bio kids) I won my case and walked away with my kids to start my life. I was 7 stone and was diagnosed with ptsd. . Put your family load on the back burner and get a close friend to sit down with you and go through it all with a tooth comb. U are entitled to dispute their report. And u can win too - best of luck. Xxx

OP, absolutely massive hugs from me. My family are almost identical to yours in so many ways and believe me I get how much it hurts and how suffocating it is.

Well done on recognising the need to start setting some very firm boundaries. You have already started with asking your mother to give you space for a few days. Just be clear about why you are doing this - to assert yourself as a separate person, to remind yourself that you are an independent adult and worthy of respect. Your reasons should be to do with what you and what you need, not about them. If you're hoping (understandably), that they will come to their senses and start to see you as a separate person, you need to be aware that that may never happen. That is a reflection on them, not you. It hurts terribly but you need to start putting your own feelings and needs first here. It's a skill that you need to nurture.

My family is so like yours, am also the eldesr,it really resonates what you have written.I also have an abusive Exh.It can all really get into your head,my solution was to leave the country,drastic but it worked.Really wishing you the best,the ties of family can really bind and gag you .Look after yourself ,you matter xx