"Lovely" husband has a nasty nasty streak

[regularhiding]

I am an old hand at mumsnet but far too embarrassed to reveal my identity for this.

My husband is thought of by all as a lovely chap. He is, lots of the time but has a very nasty streak directed only at me.

I cannot for the life of me decide whether to make a proper issue of this ( which would lead to us splitting up as he will catgorically NOT discuss anything or accept blame)or just accept for a quiet life that he has inherited the "occasional arse" gene from his father and not take it personaly?

If I have challenged him about it in the past he turns t all back to me and threatens to leave and I pretend to be in the wrong so he stays - for the sake of the kids might I add! We Have three young children, no idea if'/ how I woud manage if he left. I love himwhen he is on form but the shitty bits ar getting more frequent.
An example.

I struggle to not descend into complete chaos house work wise. Yesterday I put two old armchairs in our bedroom ith the bright idea it would cheer the place up and give
him somewhere to chuck his clothes other then the floor. to try to make the place look a little tidier.

At Breakfast I asked him very softly and nicely if he would leave all his stuff on a chair not the floor.

He scowled and muttered some insult theat he refused to repeat. I think that kind of stuff is not on but what can I do? It gets me down. he WONT change. CShould I accept his insulting aggressive episodes or bale out?

Bet those who know me have worked out who I am.

Have you thought of phoning Womens Aid?
most areas have an 'outreach' programme and are very discrete so no one will know.
Any kind of abuse does affect your children, even if you think you are protecting them from it. Children are very astute (sp?)
Womens Aid do not only help physically abused women but also emotionally abused women. They have trained counsellors and it will not cost you anything.
I do not think that you have anything to loose, so why not give them a ring, just for a chat.
Goodluck in whatever you decide.

Is he going through some kind ofmid life crisis, or has he always been like that? It sounds pretty awful in the long term (ie if he were a teenager you could tell yourself he'd grow out of it!)

Call his bluff honey and pack his cases for him and leave them by the front door - tell him if he really wants to go he can but he has to leave his key cause you are not having him coming and going and upsetting you and the kids.

Believe me it may seem like its every so often at the moment but everytime he does it he is chipping away at you and as others have said he knows just what he is doing (being a controlling manipulative bullying tosser) if he is only doing it when you are alone with him.

You do not have to live like this and believe me there is hope for people like you look at me and essbee.

Hoep things look up for you soon. XXX

(essbee - I did get your text message but have changed phones since and have lost your number - can you email me - I had left my phone at work deliberatly so as not to have to pick up calls over the bank hols!!)

regularhiding, just wondering how you are doing? Are you ok?

Thank you thank you one and all. Will post properly later.
Am really shocked at the general tone here which is generally of the opinion to tell him to sling his hook!!!Oh that it were so simple.
What about our small children? How the heck can I run the show all alone? I'm a worn out ragbag as it is>
Any more words of wisdom bring em on!

hi regularhiding, i know what you mean that it is a lot easier said than done. but i think you just have to look at your situation, and decide what do you really want. i think the only way you can do that is to actually sit down with your dh, tell him how you are feeling, and see what his response is. if he doesnt take you seriously, that isnt a good sign. but if you could try to make dh see that his behaviour and attitude are not right, maybe he can try to find out what the cause is, and maybe even try to tackle what ever problem is.

at the end of the day, only you can decide what is best for yourself and your children. if you did decide to go at it alone, just remember there are loads of us out there, and somehow we are coping, although it baffles me on how i do. do you have many friends or relatives near by that could support you?

regularinhiding, I know what you mean about coping alone. I often thought I couldn't and that's partly why I stayed with X for so long. But when I finally did leave I felt happier and relieved knowing that I wouldn't have to put up with any more of his crap and this I feel made me able to cope better IYSWIM? Because I was happier, my son was happier and even on bad days I felt more able to cope with them because I didn't have the other stress of walking on egg shells round the prat that called himself my partner.

We are here for you whenever you need to talk

Bleieb me its easy to run the show alone when it is just small ones you are worrying about - you do it your way with a clear head and no fear or worry that yuo are going to be abused in your daily life!!

I am sure plenty of people will help you but believe me he will not stop this - he is preying on your fear that you can't do this on your own so are putting up with everything he does - your life will either not change and you will have to live with this always or his treatment of you will get worse - you need to show him that he is not allowed to treat you like this - you deserve so much more and the longer it goes on the less of you is left - believe me its taken me a long long time to be me again after going through this sort of thing but it is possible and although its not easy life is better att he other end - ask SB also she has been trhough this more recently than I and she is glowing!!

Have you had a chance to talk to a "Real Life" trusted friend and family member about what life with your husband is really like, underneath the charmingt impression he gives to outsiders. I think that you will feel a lot better just at not having to put on a happy face to everyone, and if you do decide to split, then you have "prepared the ground" - i.e. it will not come as a huge shock to everyone. I know it is so easy to tell someone - dump him - throw him out etc, but so much harder to actually do this! Also have you considered going to counselling to help you think about managing practicalities of splitting up with him/managing on your own if that's what you decide to do? Best of luck.

Reguarinhiding: (and no...I haven't guessed, have no clue!) - I don't think I would be moving straight to a 'Do not pass go, do not collect £200' throw him out solution at this stage! as I understand it you are looking for a way to get him to adopt more accpetable beahviour so that the rest of your family life can flourish. I think it would be good for you to have some support in strategies for responding to him that would get him to change his pattern. There is a book called 'The Dance of Anger' that I have found very useful...and it might also be useful for you to seek support from a counsellor , not, of course, because YOU are the one behaving in any dysfunctional way but to get support and strategies for adopting beahviours and responses that will force him to recognise that he cannot get what he wants by taking out his agression/anger on you.

regularhiding,
I think there is really good advice here - obviously no-one really knows waht is between the two of you except you.
It does seem though that , unless you can start to communicate and somehow get him to realise that things have to change, the future really doesn't look happy in that relationship.
When I was with my ex, I continued in the relationship despite very forceful views and advice from friends. And if I have been the one on the outside looking in I would have given myself a stern talking to along the lines of "get out you prat". But you can only do what you can do when you are ready to do it (she says stating the completely obvious).
If you are not ready to make any major decisions then just get as much support from friends, relatives or professionals as you possibly can.
No doubt they will tell you that you deserve, as a minimum, to be treated with respect.
I do think that people can (occasionally) change, but there has to be openness and willingness to do so (again stating the obvious). Ok I'll stop rambling now.
lots of good wishes sent your way

respect has been metioned a couple of times. everyone should be afforded respect,we do that to everyone we meet - strangers for goodness sake
i think boundaries are important. its horrible to say you need boundaries in a relationship but its the only way mine has lasted this long. i know if i said i was leaving he would open the door! he knows if he said the same thing i would gladly drive him to the station. no physical abuse and no affairs or sexual overtones with anyone else. those are our boundaries. we do not have many becuase trust is fundamental in our relationship and has to be earned.
you need to be in full possessin of the facts of what would happen should you become a single parent. you need to do some research call into the dss or get some forms sent to you. if he asks why. tell him you need to be prepared in case he left as he often threatens to. maybe then he will re think his threats.

if you give other people power over you by default. they will take it greedily. children will do it, husband / partners wil do it, authority figures will do it, family members will do it and people you work with will do it. good friends dont do it - but then we chose them as we also chose our lovers, so why should be put up with it.

i think a benefits leaflet here and there just to see what he says. you have then laid a boundary for next time. not everyone "does" long conversations and talkng through problems. maybe this will do.

someone mentioned earlier about power tripping. it truly is. do you truly truly truly want to stay with someone who doesnt want to stay with you? i would rather be on the bones of my arse ( and have been so am not saying it lightly) than have someone stay with me for money or pity or for the children.
how is your social life? if you do not have a strong support network, he can exhert his power more freely as you have no where to go and no let out.
you need to slowly change the power relationships in your house. if he wants to cook himself a meal thats selfish - tell him your cooking yourself a meal and then ask him who is feeding the kids - if you have more than one kid say i will feed kid one then you feed kid two. if he wants to "fend for himself" tell him to do it in one of the kids bedrooms becuase you dont want to sleep with a man that doesnt afford you the basic respect every human being is afforded if he leaves his shit on the floor leave it or if that drives you potty buy a washing basket just for him. when he had no clothes - show him the washing machine. give up the ironing - they soon learn. got a sewing kit for those buttons that drop off? throw it away. if you are a full time mum then that is a job. if he doesnt recognise that then he is not worthy of you. he truly isnt.

yes all easily said than done but i have done it. one year into my marriage i told my husband i want doing it anymore, that coping with a baby was hard enough and he would have to start washing and ironing. actually i said your not fxxking disabled -you do it.

This behaviour sounds horrible but it part of a whole package and I would say to weigh up carefully the good and the bad in your relationship because of course leaving the father of your kids is a big deal. What does your partner contribute to the mix?

He may not be the best partner/ dad but is he good enough? Bear in mind that other people's relationships are not necessarily as good as they seem from the outside.

I think you either need to accept this bad side of your partner or else try to change it. To change it you need to show it is unacceptable. Try behaving back to him in the same manner eg shouting uneccessarily in a horrid tone and then when he is shocked say "that's what you do to me." Stand your ground and tell HIM to get out if he will not behave reasonably. I am confident this will call his bluff.

His behaviour is either teenage or bully boy - you can probably tell me which?

I really don't want to offend, but IME if men don't get their rocks off enough this makes them more cranky and whilst I don't excuse this I think hormones can ruin behaviour for men as well as for women.

HTH

Is he in a high pressure job and are you a SAHM?

posy, I am in a high pressure job (shifts) earning about five times what he earns (also shifts)
I think he is BOTH buly boy and teenager.

Since having kids I see his behavious as just like a child. If a child does not get their way (or if he has some grudge) they stamp and scream -most people grow up and learn to curtail these impulses but basically he is doing a version of this when he has his litle episodes.

Have to say this is my side of the story - he thinks our disagreemants are all MY fault! He is VERY sensitive and his huffs are usually traced back to something I have said which has allegedly insulted him. eg I once showed him a before and after pic in a slimming mag and he went in the huff for days before accusing me of basically calling him fat!!!(by showing him the pic)

Truth is I would not dare do or say anyting knowingly to insult hih (or anyone for that matter) as the consequences are so dire.

Yet sometimes he is so lovley.
He is like a seething mass of testosterone sometimes.Always worrying he is about to erupt.

Regularhiding - I know what you mean about how he can be lovely - my step dad is like this - can be lovely, but significant amount of time controlling/immature or even violent (towards my mum, not me). Please don't feel guilty/confused for criticising him because he is sometimes nice - people aren't 100% bad or good, and if the bad is too much for you to cope with, then you are entitled to better treatment. Also speaking from experience even if you try your best to walk on eggshells, if the guy is in a bad mood he could start a fight with a paper bag - even if you try your best not to "provoke" him, you will end up doing so anyway as he will find an excuse! Did your dh have a bad childhood - my stepdad did - whilst I do not condone his behaviour this helps me understand why he does it.

It sounds to me like you need changes but this is not the time to bale out. In a way, it sounds to me like you dh feels he has no power and has tantrums instead. Absolutely not saying that's your fault. As you say, it comes across as his immaturity.

If you talk to your dh can you ask him what he wants? Be matter of fact, say it's obvious he is unhappy with some things, and that can't go on, so how can you both sort it out. The subtext to this is of course his behaviour is unacceptable and of course you will not put up with it long term.

But you're giving him a chance to tell you what's going on in his mind first. If he feels listened to, has his say and you agree on changes he wants, it's then easier to tackle him about the things you don't like and the changes you need. It's what I do with my dh if I have to.

If you've tried this sort of thing already and you dh just won't ever talk to you, and this has been going on for years, I think you are in a more serious situation, I'm afraid. I don't know what I'd do and can't advise you one way or the other - leaving is a terribly difficult decision to make.

regularhiding, I've been following most of this thread but not read it all so I apologise if I repeat something said here already.

My dh went through a phase of being a bit like yours, throwing tantrums, screaming and shouting at me and at the kids for very little reason, and despite doing my best not to upset him he still used to lose it very regularly. It got to the point where I would not get to the end of a day without him haaving screamed and shouted at me at least once.

It was clear to me (and many ohters) that dh was suffering from depression - I have since heard that rather than 'retreating' into a shell some people become angry and aggressive. But despite my distress at the situation he refused to acknowledge it or do anything about it.

In the end, I wrote him a letter. In it I set out all the reasons why I felt his behaviour was unacceptable and the effect it was having on us and on the children. I spent a long time writing and rewriting it so that it was not a rant but set out the facts, so that he couldn't deny it. I also pointed out that I knew I wasn't perfect but that I didn't deserve to be treated like this. Finally I said that if he didn't do something about it I would ask him to leave home, or I would go and take the children with me.

This was a kick-start which really made him sit down and think. In the end he took a job away from home to give us some space, which allowed us both to rebuild our confidence and self-esteem, then returned to the family home a few months later. He is now a lot more sorted, a lot calmer and happier. He can recognise when a situation gets on top of him and remove himself from it. I am learning to give him more space too - part of our game plan is to include regular stints away from each other. However he still refuses to take AD's or even homeopathic remedies. He still does lose his temper over small things sometimes, but we are both developing strategies to deal with this.

I really don't know if this helps you at all, rh, but I suppose I just wanted to say that it is possible to work these things out. Dh is a great father, and loving husband, when he is not too down. If you can find the strength to stick with it, and he is prepared to do something about it, you may be able to work it out. HTH.

My dp is similar in the childish behaviour and I have put up with it for years occasionally losing the plot after the frustration building up and up and up till I blow. Recently though I have been telling him at the time, that he is being rude, insulting or whatever and that excuse me, but you dont talk to other people like that so what makes you think you can talk to me like that.
It has certainly curbed it. And also I have turned the tables on him and said, when was the last time you did something for me, or the kids for that matter when he turns into caveman and asks why there no dinner waiting on the table for him.
Its really has had massive effect and he now must think for a second before he speaks becuase he now knows I will not just tolerate it, I mouth right back, well not mouth, I just dont ignore it any more. Try it, and if he gets vicious or violent it just proves everyones point, hes a bully, im thinkinhg more along the lines of insensitive pig who doesnt give any thought to his actions or words.

I believe the answer here is, not to be afraid of the consequences of standing up for yourself. Any lack of self belief and he will automatically have the upper hand. Your postings sound like trouble waiting to happen and that's what you need to be afraid of.
You deserve better and your children deserve better. It's as simple as that.

This guy is behaving in a childish fashion, as if you are his parent, not an equal.
If you earn a lot more, that sets up a situation like this and might be the root of it.

How much responsibility does he take for different areas of family life - is he for instance in charge of the budget? If he takes on (or you give him) more responsibility he will feel more in control.

You didn't comment about your sex life - I think this is certainly relevant to the picture though.

My DH was exactly like this a few years ago, Regularhiding. I was constantly walking on eggshells and there was a lot of 'peripheral violence'. For example, he would throw a glass at a wall showering me and the kids with glass.

I'm afraid there was no easy solution. I never made excuses for him (stress depression, my arse!)He and he alone was responsible for his behaviour. I also think that sitting talking about it is a no-hoper. Men like my DH only respond to metaphorical butt-kicking.

So we went far down the road of separation, I was about to get an injunction to remove him from the family home because of his bad behaviour but he was desperate to stay and was fully aware of what he stood to lose. He also got the metaphorical kick in the butt from his own solicitor (who also knew me well).

Well the ball was now in my court. I absolutely put my foot down and made some written rules. E.G. no violence, shouting, housework and childcare exactly divided down the middle. I do nothing personal for him (washing, ironing, sewing, buying clothes). Fortunately our house is big enough that we have our own rooms and bathroom each.

However, sadly, the emotional side of our marriage also had to go and we live like flatmates but in order to be hard with him I had to withdraw emotionally. He simply no longer had the power to dominate or bully me.

I think you have to be really hard and give ultimatums but the key is to REALLY MEAN IT. If he leaves his clothes on the floor, throw them in the bin. If he demands a meal on the table, never make him a meal again, and the biggest of them all, if he is ever abusive or violent call the police then throw him out.

My husband very rarely kicks off now. On the odd occasion that he does, I walk out (with the kids). If it is a really bad one, I get out my solicitor's folder which also has a diary of his episodes in it, and simply say to him, 'if you do not behave right now, I will invoke this'. He now immediately calms down because he knows I mean it.

I think it is possible to change his behaviour but you have to lay down the law and make him realise that every action of his will have consequences. Be hard, don't respond to his taunts, never cry in front of him and stop asking him politely to do things. Say instead 'If you do not pick up your clothes off the floor by tomorrow morning, I will put them in the bin'. Then do it.

Best wishes with whatever you decide.

But Pacific, are you happy having a 'flatmate' relationship? Would it not be better splitting up and finding someone else? I'm not saying you should, just interested.

Just a quick response for you Chinchilla, since you asked the question.

No, I am not entirely happy but I am not unhappy either. I have a pleasant stable home and the kids have both their parents around.

I have accepted that this is the way life has to be because I did not want to rip the kids lives apart.

I'm actually rather relieved that I don't have to bother with a relationship. I was never very good at playing the mating game (I don't fit the media definition of attractive) and always met guys who wanted a one night stand or were simply complete tossers/boozers. Prior to the ripe old age of 32 when I got married, I had never had a steady boyfriend! So, you see, I'm under no illusions and think I am probably better off as I am.

Well, if you're happy, then that is fine for you. I hope I didn't offend you, I was just interested. I just hope that because you don't think you match the 'media definition' of attractive that you have to settle for second-best.